Hope,

You and MWIL are two of my favorites here. Other posters here have told you what I would want to say. You know what to do.

Make your DD proud, make yourself proud, and make me proud.

Your bro, UVA.

HTW,
I hope you had a good night's sleep and woke up thinking a little more clearly. You worry me. I hear A LOT of fog in your talk. We are a community here, we pull eachother up and get pointed in the right direction. HTW you are headed in the wrong direction and about to hit the point of no return.

I know you are lonely. Being appreciated feels wonderful. But Hope you have been through so much and come so far. Plan B is on the horizon...and getting closer. I want peace for you. If you've tried everything... plan A and plan B and it doesn't work...you move on. Now you know there will be someone out there for you whether its this girl or another. You are attractive to women and you will not always be lonely.

If you give into your weakness...you not only have no chance at saving your M, but your risk losing yourself. Selling off a piece of your soul to feel good for a little while. You are married until you are divorced. Me too. My WH is out of the house, we are physically and emotionally separated. I made a vow to God, to myself and my H. I need to be able to look my children in the eye and KNOW I did the right thing. I will move on w/ a clear conscience.

Before I was married I did some things I was not proud of. I hid my shame in denial. I lied to everyone. Lived a double life. I was detached from myself. That experience gave me insight into how WH could do the things he has done. That is why I believe he can change, because I did. Thats why I can forgive him because I was forgiven.

You have seen the slippery slope from friendship to EA to PA. You have not riden the entire slope but you can see where it leads. Lets spend some time and energy to figure out how we are going to get you to plan B.

Hope, the problem I see is that your acceptance of living with WW for so long, trying Plan A (for too long) is the reason you are in this situation.

Remove yourself from the daily torture of WW's actions, and it will be easier to see that what you are contemplating is wrong. Your love for WW will "charge" back up a bit once she's not part of your daily life.

I kissed an old GF a while back....and it felt dirty and wrong.....I addressed it immediately, and thus MY AFFAIR stopped!!! And in 2 short days I was proud of what I did fom my marriage, not my alienated WW wife.....but my marriage.

Of course this is hard....so hard, and these are the unexpected pitfalls that we must negotiation in order to heal ourselves....and possibly in the future your marriage.

Temptation is a tool of the devil.....don't fall prey!!!

MWIL

Aaahhh, but you can't take exception here HTW, because OM is who you are aspiring to become...Good Sir, it simply IS WHAT IT IS...You are married, and I'll even go out on a limb here and say that what you are about to do is, in degree, worse than what your WW has done...You know why? Because you KNOW all about affairs now...You KNOW MB principles...You are posting that you KNOW that this is wrong...That you KNOW that this is a slippery slope and so YOU are walking into this EYES WIDE OPEN!!! Are you kidding me??? You are becoming your own worst nightmare...Ironic, or just plain sad?

You are NO BETTER than the OM in your life if you do this HTW...Know Why? Because you are knowingly giving up your integrity and even plotting to try and undermine this woman's(makes you a predator, my friend-predators KNOW what they are doing is wrong and do it anyway)...Now of course if she chose to have a relationship with you it would be her choice, but WHY would you even want to put that option out to her if you had one ounce of care for her??? Temptation is a b*tch. You just have NO CLUE what this will do to your insides...your character...your self image...Oh my word, you just have NO IDEA how much being a WS tears you down...And you want to learn the hard way...Please, please believe me when I tell you that you don't...The nausea...the misery...the flashbacks...hearing a simple song can bring you to your knees...YOU DON'T WANT THAT HTW...

You said in another post that it's just this weird feeling...YES...YES...YES...it is...You know why? It's your moral conscience trying desperately to warn you...yet the deeper and deeper into the fog you go the less able to recognize it you become...That surreal feeling is the battle for your soul...It is where the rationalizations and justifications give way to your being able to compartmentalize your life into different corners within the recesses of your mind...Do you think that the precipice that you now find yourself on has never been stood upon before??? If you do, you could NOT be more wrong...It's that same "jumping off spot" that all WSes before you have stood upon...That's the place where you make the fateful CHOICE that corrupts...You have arrived...What will you do? Will you ignore all the knowledge that you have and all the wonderful advice you have been given? If so, then HTW, I will have no pity at all for you...Knowledge is POWER...Use your POWER to keep your INTEGRITY...

In another post you talk about how you have begun to distance yourself from your children...Oh man, I know this feeling all too well...Answer this: Is something that makes you do that a good thing??? Children are innocent, sweet and pure...Is it any wonder that you feel the need to detach from them when you are considering such a dark, evil and immoral thing???

HTW, there is NOT one single thing that you have said here regarding your situation that is any different than what every other WS said to themselves and others...all a bunch of rationalizations and justifications to commit a terrible act...Don't kid yourself, you are NOT unique...Do yourself a favor and at least OWN that...Maybe if you can do that you will prevent yourself from having to own the cesspool that comes with being a WS...

Mrs. Wondering

That's just it Mr.W...I feel like I'm entering a vaccumm. Somehow I feel myself disconnecting with people and I'm lowering my moral charcter. I've become increasingly angry, distant and aloof lately. My DS has caught me swearing more and more often and I'm letting my kids do things I wouldn't normally let them do like watching certain television programs or even eat more junk food.

This may sound crazy but maybe some of the FWS can relate.

My DS is calling so I have to go...I will be back in a bit...

You're not on anti-deps yet, are you Hope?

I can relate to this HTW...Which honestly, because of my status as a FWS, should scare the bejeebies out of you...Few theories for ya on this...

1. You let them do whatever they want so that you can have more time to think...As in, disappear into your fantasy world with OW...where all is perfect, shiny and exciting...NOT REAL LIFE...You can not and should not live in a fantasy world...When you finally wake from that world, not only are your same problems still there, but now you have even more, even larger problems...

2. You let them do whatever they wish to appease your guilt, because deep within, you know that what you are embarking upon is VERY DARK AND WRONG to them and to you...

3. You get angrier easier because you are starting down the path towards self hatred...

4. You are getting testier because anxiety is caused by conflict...What you are thinking of doing is in direct opposition to what you know is right, hence MAJOR CONFLICT...Btw, conflict is the story of the WS life...

5. As I mentioned before, children are innocent, sweet and pure, conversely, affairs are dark, evil and immoral...Detachment is only natural...

Please heed all the great advice that you are receiving HTW...

Mrs. Wondering

I remember my WW crying on the phone to her friend only days before d-day. They were talking about OM and when my WW would tell me she wants to leave.



nb, your story has struck a chord with me. Why was your WH crushed...was he not actively involved in an A? I don't understand how a WS would feel "crushed" when they find out the BS is also having an A.


I do understand. I mentioned my co-worker bringing me a coffee after her lunch unsolicited and how is triggered something inside of me. This morning my WW brought me a coffee when she returned from my DD dance class and she too brought me a coffee unsolicited...it meant nothing to me.

You see even my WW's small acts of caring are bouncing off me now that I have built up this wall to protect myself from all the pain she has inflicted on me


dorry also wants me to quit my job. I cannot affort to loose this job now that I will be the sole income for my family. The pay is great, the benefits are great and it gives me much flexibility.


Did you ever get the feeling like you are the only one making morally correct decsions? It's almost like a seperation is a free pass to cheat.

Dear Hope,

First off, I want to say I am proud of you for speaking the truth in your heart BEFORE you acted upon it. If only our WS's had done this, we might not be in this boat we're all in right now. What you are feeling is very normal. You ARE following MB principals RIGHT NOW, by speaking the truth even though it is not what anyone wants to hear. That takes a lot of courage.

I truly understand how you are feeling. There are times when I feel like posting an ad on MB's saying "I want a man - any takers?!" I am sooooo lonely it hurts physically. I AM DIVORCED, I AM free to date, and I want nothing more than for some guy to come along and tell me everything I want to hear. But you know what? I know I'm not ready for it. I think to myself, okay, what if I start dating so and so and WH comes to me with his tail between his legs willing to do whatever it takes to win back his one and only true love - Shattered? Then what? I would be lost in mass confusion and I honestly don't think I would be able to make an educated decision. Plus I know it would not be fair to the man that might lay his heart on the line for me. I couldn't do that to someone.

It has been a year since D-DAY and I am realizing how emotionally entangled our lives become in a marriage. Even after divorce, it takes a long time to work through the emotions. I know I just don't have a whole heart and mind to offer someone today. I still think of my ex DAILY. That's a big red flag for a new relationship. I am just lonely and needy right now. I see it for what it is.

Mental health professionals say you need to wait at least a year after a major breakup before you embark on a new relationship. That is another reason why affairs can't last - you can't go from the frying pan to the fire and expect it to work. It's called a rebound relationship. You don't want to be leftovers, you want to be the main course!

Hope, right now you really need stability in the workplace. Don't bite the hand that feeds you as well. Picture the worst case scenario, it could happen. Workplace affairs are not a good idea, even between two single people. You have your whole life ahead of you. Slow down. You are all those things you want someone to tell you so desperately. But for right now, get the love and affection you need from your children, get friendship from your male friends, focus on your job, and imagine what you want your life to be like 5 years from now.

You know what else Hope? This woman or others will still be around years from now. You don't need to pounce on her today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Shattered05 !!!

There was recently a thread visited by a dozen or so of people that were wondering what had become of you. I'm sorry to see you received a divorce <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> However, from your post above, your head is solidly on your shoulders, and you sound very strong. Good for you. How about you start a thread and give us an update, let us know what's happening in your life. Inquiring minds, you know?

Best wishes,
SD

You hit it again!


No where near as bad as I was several months ago...could be better...agreed.


pep, first I don't know if she is attracted to me though I will admit I am attracted to her.

She is a very independent woman. After graduating university she did a 5 month hike along the Appalacian Trail with her dad who she is very close to, taught under privalidged kids for 1 year, then left her small town to find work 700 miles away (my town). She lives on her own, doesn't own a car or television. Takes the 1 hour and a half trip to work and back on public transit every day...never complains about it. Prefers to read and be with friends than going out to party. Likes to travel, plays guitar, takes acting classes, belly dancing classes, plays hockey, hikes, skies. The only person I know besides myself who abstained during Lent. She wrote, composed and performed a song for her dad to show him how much she means to her...and on and on.

I would say she is well rounded and has a full schedule that doesn't require anyone to make her happy.


Please explain!

Send me, I know and I will get through this also some how.
Thanks for everything!

For Atmosphere...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Just knock it right off HTW...This sounds like a "pity party", and, I for one, AIN'T comin'! I don't feel sorry for you that you have maintained your integrity...Nope, I sure don't...And HTW, as others have very correctly pointed out to you, two wrongs do NOT make a right!!! You are NOT entitled to be immoral just because your WW was...That is classic REACTING...You ACT, You Don't REACT!!!

Somehow I get the feeling that you think "a truly WS" got to a place where they decided that they wanted to do evil for evil's sake...Well, guess what? That AIN'T the case...Wanna know what it feels like just before you become a WS? Well, my friend, just reach out and touch yourself...As I told you before, you have arrived...What you feel like now is how I felt...it's how your WW felt...it's how we all felt...it's not some big conspiracy at first...it's just the slippery slope that you speak of...Scary place to be, huh? Temptation is Rough-How you respond to it will either make you ashamed or proud-Where do you want to be?

Actually, this gives you and your WW a common thread, cause now ya know...HTW, do me a favor, tell me what your WW would give as reasons for her A if she were to be posting here...Seriously, do this exercise and let us point out to you how much what she would say and what you are now saying very closely mirror each other...It may surprise you...

Mrs. W

P.S. Seem like I'm being tough on you HTW? If so, good! You need "Bootcamp for Potential WSes" right now...Wish I would have had it...sigh... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

You know UVA, I now sleep in the spare room and last night I woke up to find my DD sleeping next to me. She must have made her way there during the night. I leaned over gave her a kiss on the forehead and said "I'm sorry". I just wish she could have had a more happy, united family.

Today she came up to me and said "Daddy, I saw a picture of when I was born and you and mommy were hugging". She is 4 and ahalf and doesn't remember her mom and dad hugging since the last year between my WW and I have been strained at best...how sad.

When I see my WW act so normal and happy with the kids I wonder if her A has had any effect on her at all. If it has, she certainly doesn't show it.

Hope..

How are the potential OWs qualities of any merit considering that the issue is your unavailable status?

Shall we pull a celeb example?

Angelina Jolie has a fairly impressive resume with regard to humanitarian efforts wouldn't you say? A bit more than the average bar stool thumper.

Nonetheless..she is a smug OW and a liar.

Deal with the issues before you. If this woman will accept romantic overtures from a married man she is a skeaze..doesn't matter if she won the nobel prize while feeding starving babies and eradicating ebola virus.

Thread jack....
Thanks for weighing in Shattered its nice to hear from you. How about an update on your situation.

PS...I'm confused42....changed my name...no longer 42...no longer confused (most days)

Back the regular scheduled thread.
HTW...I've been thinking about this today...I think its part of the process and you just need to hold on a little while longer.

You have spent so much time being the giver and focusing on WW and plan A, and she has basically turned you away every time. As a validation of your worth you are looking outside your M. OK you've got it. There are other women out there.
LOTS of them. And most would be thrilled to have attention from a good man. There is time for that you are young and vital.

Right now I'm not even worried about your M recovery...its your personal recovery. If you have decided its too late for plan B get the LS done...and then decide the next step.

I remember reading your story Hope. I only have a few comments. First, getting involved while you have not emotionally distanced from the marriage and mentally committed yourself to divorce is not smart. Don't do it. Second, the yardstick that you measure a new person by is a lot more forgiving than the one you measure a companion of years by. Don't be fooled into thinking that newness is an excuse for goodness. Third, there are other women out there and it is your choice when to say enough is enough to your WW. You are not obliged to wait your whole life for WW to get it together and come back. Don't pursue this woman. Do break away. But also use the experience to understand the opportunity cost you are paying. Make the decision that's right for you and your family.

HTW,

I just can't believe what I am reading here. You justifying and EA with someone after all you have been through trying to save your marriage.

Don't you remember all of the pain and hurt you have been through??? Why would you risk causeing yourself more pain and anguish? I just don't get it....

I know how lonely, frustrated, angry and hurt you are but having your own affair is not the way to handle these emotions.

Do you think somewhere in the back of your mind its revenge on your WW???? Liek let me show you how I hav been feeling, let you feel the pain???? Guess what she isn't going ot feel it because she is a WS. You will just give her ammo to use against you.... Come on HTW get your head out of the clouds and fantasy land and get back to reality. You know how this stuff works..... You are setting yourself and your children up for more pain and hurt.....

The one thing we all as BS'S have in common is the pain of infidelity, but if we all decided to say to he!! with it and go down the same road as our WS'S were would we be??? We would all be living in a he!! made of fantasy.....

Do this the right way, either work on saving your marriage and leaving other women alone or file the divorce and move ahead without your wife. You have to make a decision here what will it be???? Be the man we all know you are or become a pathetic WS and hurt more people????

I think deep inside you know the answer to that HTW so get it together and be a man you can be proud of......


Hurting

My sleep was fine...no dreams this time. That is why I started this thread because something triggered inside of me on Friday when I received that coffee from her. It was a feeling I haven't felt in a long, long time and I knew from what I have learned here that my LB$ was being filled by this woman.


I agree that I need Plan B and I have been mulling over doing an in house Plan B for the next 2 months until she leaves. I said I would never do that, but things are digrssing quickly and I need to stop this before it gets worse. Mel was so right! That lady knows her stuff!

I'm not really worried about meeting other women. I'm worried that I won't meet a woman who has what this girl has. She truly is a wonderful person and is unlike many of the superficial women that I know. She is a special girl and I do care for her. Man if that doesn't sound like fog talk...


I remember when you disclosed this to your WH on your thread. You never said what it was, but you were ashamed of it. YOu sound so much better now.


If I do go with the temporary in-house Plan B I will need to rewrite my letter and could use your help again.

Whatever you need! We are here for you!