LA/POOL,
School starts Monday for 6 weeks, WW called this morning wanting details... Know where this is going... wants Ty to come down while I'm there. School is an hour away but will be driving home daily (state is reimbursing for mileage and car repairs). I do not wish to fight with her, Ty has no wish to go there with OM in house. As always, if she doesn't get what she wants it will be my fault...


JMT

Great to see your post, J...remember, also, no one can make anything your fault...their belief is theirs...yours is yours.

Remember this...you have to take offense...take blame...can't be forced on you.

School already? Wow...time went by. Felt slow for you, I'm sure. Rather exciting to have something you have to focus on while she does her thing.

Stay present...will help you with school...no jumping into the future. I'm betting your WW won't file for divorce, nor will the A last...might even want to have ended it already except now she feels responsible for having OM & son in the house...

Yes, being still allows her to find her own way...and it's a way back to you and her real family...out of her fantasy one.

Keep posting.

LA

LA,
Know that the blame is not mine for whatever happens... There is actually a school back home that I could have gone to, taken Ty with me, and stayed at the house... WW was not willing to make that happen, but that's OK... When the inevitable conversation takes place I will thank her for her kind offer to look after Ty while I'm in school but he's just fine here with the folks and I. Honestly, I would rather not discuss it if it is going to end up in a fight, but I don't have to let that happen, do I? My choice... My power...

I have changed my whole perspective since you advised to act from the goal and realized how self-centered some of my actions were... same old manipulative me... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Let's hope you are right LA, let's PRAY you are right LA, Ty told her last night that he did not want to come down while OM was in our lives, "I understand... I know in my heart that I will see you soon..." Know not to read too much into ANYTHING WW says , but at least his boundaries are registering with her. Thanks again LA! Hope to be given the opportunity to utilize the info in SAA to have the marriage that ALL OF US deserve!

JMT

Hi JMT

I just wanted to say that I've been reading your story and I'm praying for you too. I mostly lurk but once in a while I peek out and say hi. Good luck with school and with the Ty and WW situation. It does sound like she can't blame you since Ty told her he didn't want to go there while OM was there though. Hooray for that kid and his having the guts to tell his Mom what he's feeling. That boy is obviously so strong and I'll keep him in my heart and prayers. Well, just giving you a little support. Good luck.

HU2006

A little clarification on what I intend to share...

" Honestly, I would rather not discuss it if it is going to end up in a fight, but I don't have to let that happen, do I? My choice... My power..."

You can choose not to discuss it. Your choice. Your power. No one can make you discuss it.

Know you are choosing not to discuss it from fear...fear of conflict, a fight...if you are not open to any other alternative, then I understand not discussing it because you are sure of all the alternatives and none of them are conducive to your standards. If you're sure of all the alternatives.

Discussing is to brainstorm alternatives you may not have thought of...to allow another person's influence, ideas...perspective...that is your choice. Know your intent...from fear or love...which tells us whether we are being honest or not with ourselves.

I disagree with self-centered actions...dripping judgment...would you consider they were manipulative actions chosen from fear?

Can you see when we choose from fear, then most of our experience is of fear?

Choosing from our standards, which we define with our beliefs, from love...then our experience will mostly be of love, won't it?

Your WW didn't abuse Ty by telling him he is wrong about his boundary, or emotionally blackmail him with, "If you loved me, you would..." Like you, not reading into what she said or didn't say...just acknowledging, there are more responses she didn't give which I am grateful for the response she gave.

That come close to your heart lightening...in truth? Actions will prove her later...for now, you can feel hopeful because you're strong, learning, growing...and excited, aren't you? You've learned a lot about relationships, how to protect our own weaknesses...and you're about to learn more and, in school, and out.

I believe it all will benefit you, your son, and your marriage.

My choice.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA

HU2006,
Thank you for the support, thoughts, and prayers, may His love also light your path.

LA,
Let me clarify... I would be HAPPY to discuss it with her and brainstorm TOGETHER for an alternative! That was the point I was trying to make... being calm in the face of adversity to avoid AO's, LB's, etc... and being strong enough to suggest going back out in the boat when the seas have calmed, so to speak.

Yes, I agree with that description, and yes, fear begets fear, anger begets anger, love begets love. I too am thankful for her response... very much unlike past responses that came from her fear... she is starting to sound like I do when communicating with her.

I am hopeful, excited, and very thankful that there are people, you in particular, who care enough about someone they have never met to help them be the best that they can be... and be there when the one they care about most is not... to get them through one of the darkest times in their life. God Bless You, LA... for showing me how to dance instead of shooting myself in the foot!

JMT

Thank you for clarifying...hey, I can be dense, ya know.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And you did it in such a classy way...

As for as you receiving support here...

My belief, as you know, is what we do for ourselves, we do for others...conversely, what I do for others, I do for myself.

Balance. No sacrifice. Bravery, yes...risky out here. Reinforces you're worth it; I'm worth it.

I love your "how to dance instead of shooting myself in the foot!" That's a treasure in itself.

Did you say you're starting class on Monday? Or Wednesday? Is a Ty a pyromaniac for the 4th? (I was...and yes, my sons were...like payback)

Tell me a story, JMT...one of your 4th's...

LA

LA,
WW called today to inform me that OM and son would be moving back to his mom's and she would be coming up to get Ty. WHOA! I politely said that unless there is some discussion about this that would be a great waste of time and gasoline.

"It is not your parents' job to raise Ty while you are in school, it is mine."
"I understand how you feel and I want you to raise your son."
"So I can come and get him?"
"When you are ready to commit completely to our family we will gladly come down."

I simply told her that, while I am proud of her courage in asking OM to move out of the house, unless her break from him is complete there is nothing to talk about, and that the boundaries that are in place are non-negotiable. If OM is in your life we are not coming down, and under no circumstances will Ty be coming down alone. We will, however, offer to come down for a weekend to negotiate the removal of OM from our lives. WW cannot afford to pay the bills without his assistance due to her limited amount of hours. I will not let myself have any expectations regarding these recent developments, but will be hopeful that these are the first steps that I have seen, to this point, that are in the right direction. Any thoughts/opinions?

JMT

Thoughts/opinions?

Whoa.

You are definitely not in a fog! You are really good at not buying into what you want to believe, choosing to remain in truth.

I would give you a standing ovation of admiration, but then I wouldn't be able to reach the keyboard.

Your boundaries rock.

You rock.

LA

LA,
Start Monday, will try to make it through Tuesday with all fingers intact.

2 years ago WW and I went to see Earth Wind & Fire/Chicago in Camden NJ, talked and laughed all the way there, danced during the show as if we were the only ones there... went home and made love till the birds started chirping... silently watched the sun come up in each other's arms next to the pool... Geeeez LA, you made me make me cry...

JMT

Hey, I'm crying with you...what a wonderful experience...and such great taste in music...these are yours...they happened...nothing can change the past...even if you want it to be changed...there is a blessing in that, and you found it.

Cherish your truth, JMT...it's beautiful. Thank you for sharing it...

Yes, please keep fingers intact...typing would be tougher.

Be well.

LA

LA,
Thought this was going to be a quiet day, but... WW called Ty to come down AGAIN, this time started to get nasty with him and hung up.

"I want you to come down"
"Not without Daddy"
"Well Daddy can't stay"
"Then I'm not staying either."
"Why not?"
"Because I don't want to stay there without Daddy."
(In the background) "Angelo you open the recliner with
brown lever"
"What was that and who is that?"
"That's Angelo he lives in the neighborhood and his dad Rob is a friend of mine."
"Why are Ken and Kenny still there?"
"It's 10:00 can we do this tomorrow because I want to go to bed. Goodbye."

She wants to go to bed... with guests in the house? Rob who? ANOTHER FRIEND? WW has alot of FRIENDS lately... Maybe that's why Ken and Kenny are on their way out...

I called back to ask what the problem was and WW didn't answer, generally will not talk in the evening when OM is there but will gladly talk during the day when he is not.
Left message stating that Ty would not be left there alone, a.) because he doesn't want to be... b.) after going down last weekend and finding out that the things that I've been told are either half-truths or not true at all, and given WW's tendency to use the Family Court system to gain control of situation that I would be a complete idiot to leave him there alone. c.) I am beginning to wonder if it is wise to take him there at all.

I realize that that message may have bordered on DJ/LB etc... but I am growing increasingly tired of the anger, lies, disrespect, and quite frankly am beginning to wonder if I am capable of doing this much longer. She is now turning her sights on Ty to badger and intimidate him into visiting... getting short with him when she feels threatened by his questions. Is this showing love? doing love? What do I do? Plan B time? HELP!

JMT

LA,
I guess the last post had you cringing... like OOOOOH, he DIDN"T say that did he? Sometimes I feel so strong, confident, etc... when WW is able to talk like a human being with feelings... then when the rain comes...I crumble.

Went down home last weekend to fill in with my old band, called and asked her to buy me a beer, WW asked where I was at, told her I was too far past her work, called later and asked her if she would sneak out and cheat on her boyfriend with her husband... knowing very well that I would get no response but did it in a humorous, fun way.

Started school this week and called her today and told her how excited I was, how Ty is meeting new friends and is having a blast, then the old familiar dial tone... called on Ty's phone and when she knew it was me - click, dial tone... Where does all of the anger come from? The disrespect? Stopped with all of the A talk and us talk, no anger, LB's, DJ's, AO's, etc... don't get it... Is this textbook? SAA didn't really cover this stuff... Hope you all had a good holiday.

JMT

Now you DJ'd me...no, I didn't cringe...I got distracted.

Tell me, how do you enforce boundaries? Would you like to teach Ty about boundaries and standards? Support him in choosing and acting from his code, instead of reacting?

You are still reactive to your WW...which from years of enmeshment, isn't changed with a couple of months...take focus and a goal.

And it truly isn't her twisting you around...your own expectations contribute to kicking your tushie...

I remember.

Where does all the anger, disrespect come from? She's having an AFFAIR...she has a fantasy going which takes all her resentment (wearing thin), old anger, grudges and warped thinking to continue to justify...using new fodder at every turn, like feeding a speeding steam engine train going up the Rockies...she would throw in the passengers, if need be...

Hey, you called and invited her to reality in a humorous way...and didn't care about the response...WAY TO GO!

Why did you tell her you were too far past her work?

I find DJs in the oddest places...

Do not allow yourself to call on Ty's phone...you don't want her not taking his calls thinking they are from you. Honesty first. You handled the first dial tone. Respect it.

You are doing well...following Plan A...what, you thought it would work overnight? Look to your expectations...you are really doing this well...exposure...more exposure at her work? Anywhere? His entire family? The neighbors around your family home?

Know your own truths...your WW is lying. She opens her mouth, it's a lie. Your choice to believe the lie or expect her to tell whole truths is yours.

Not a DJ to do this...reality bringer...even to yourself.

Teaching Ty to listen and repeat would be neat...(yes, I said neat...I'm old)...because it is respectful and true power...his own...when he may be feeling really powerless against her pressure...he loves her. Remember that. Forever.

In your 6/29 post, you were having a down, reactive day...expect those. That's reasonable. Same as an upbeat for no reason day...when what you are doing, your great goal, sees you through...without being dependent on response or results...what you do, think, feel and believe matters.

Pass it on.

Teach Ty his tools...when she gets short, demanding...uses emotional blackmail...what better tools can you really ever show him? He's worth understanding the difference between boundaries and selfish demands...that he is worthy, valuable and equal to everyone else...give it a shot.

Lemme know. And if I miss your thread (MB was being cantankerous a few times), bump it for me. I've bookmarked it, but if I lose my system again, I lose the dang bookmark.

How is school? How are you doing with self-congratulations? Appreciation? Attention and conversation?

LA

Bumping for an update...

LA

LA,
WHEW! What a great week... I am digging school so much that I've barely noticed that two weeks have gone by! Typed a HUGE post last Sunday before bed only to see the this form is no longer valid message, guess I got a little long winded... Didn't feel like typing for another 1/2 hour so...

Have kind of been laying low with WW since school started, talked to her briefly last Friday and she apologized for the hang-ups and bad attitude, called her Monday, usually do to ask about her weekend... she didn't answer but actually returned my call! Phone battery was WAY low, thought I had left my charger at home (was actually DEEP in my duffel bag) so I was saving what little juice I had to talk to Tyler and didn't call her back again. I guess I should have called and explained because the next message I got from WW said that all of my belongings were headed for the trash if I didn't call, and 3 bags of clothes etc... were already in the trash. WW didn't answer her phone so I called the neighbor to retrieve the clothes (with WW's permission) and she admitted that she didn't throw anything out except some stuff that I had told her to get rid of anyway...

I am purposely backing off calling WW to concentrate on school , I need my head on straight... and it has paid off. I graduated with a 99% from the classroom portion of school, now on to the driving! Monday was the first time she has returned a call in months... should I continue to cut back and/or keep contact to a minimum? Do you think that the clothes to the trash call was a result of my not calling back on Monday?

WW also called Ty during the week and he expressed his desire to reunite our family, WW's response was, "So we can all be miserable again?" Ty said, "No, so we can be happy again." WW said she had to go... but asked when he would come down, he told her that we miss her and both want to see her, gave him a MAYBE that BOTH of us could come down but this would have to be discussed at another time.

There's your update! Hope last week was good and the coming will be better!

JMT

Congrats on school! That is an achievement given what you're dealing with in addition to this whole new venue for your life...

Great focus skills, J...you've got three weeks left in school? Then what?

And big kudos to Ty, too...brave boy. Respectful, too. To himself and his mother.

What do you want to do about contacting WW? About your stuff (which is a control point...something she reached for to MAKE you do something...though I don't know if it was call back, acknowledge her existence...or what)?

And why are you believing her, btw?

If you're in Plan A, return her calls. I think you have your priorities straight...not calling her back right then isn't the issue...not calling her back when you had your charger in use might be.

Know your own intent...your own truth...then you'll know what you are doing and why...being lied to doesn't have to bite your butt...if you choose what you believe and what you don't.

Thank you for updating...you're in many prayers and thoughts, both you and Ty...

LA

LA,
I think that calling once or twice a week is the right way to go... She kept mentioning when I was calling more often that I was smothering her, trying too hard, etc...
I think she was retreating as a result. The old push-pull thing... and at the same time I am finding my strength inside of myself instead of drawing it from somewhere or something else. I have no intention of going Plan B anytime soon, and I live to hear her voice even twice a week. I didn't find the charger till Wednesday night and retrieved her message, phone was off until that point. I hoped that she wouldn't trash my stuff, but under the circumstances I couldn't take it for granted that she wouldn't. She surely did get my attention though...

Ty and I are going to find a nice "WE MISS YOU" card tomorrow to send to her. Four weeks of road and range training then off to company orientation with whatever company I decide to go with, I have submitted 10 apps and have my fingers crossed! Intend to offer WW a week with Ty and I before I go if she wishes... Hope she will think about it. Thanks again for your thoughts and prayers..


JMT

Well done on the exam - just popped out of lurking to say that.

Glad to see you and Ty are still with the program, kudos to you, I know it was hard at first to set things striaght, but look how far you have come. *smile*

Linda

SP,
Thank you, and it is a pleasure hearing from you again! Hope all is well with you and yours... have a great week!


JMT