JJ,

You have to understand one thing, and you will when you read the books.

Most affairs will die a natural death, and it looks like your wife's is well on it's way right now. You just have to work on YOUR marital behaviors now so that when the affair goes down in flames you will look much more attractive to her and she will want to come back.

And she will also remember the kindness and thoughtfulness that you gave her even when she didn't deserve it.

The books will help you understand more, but I wouldn't throw out any more "let's divorce" lines just yet if you have any interest in all in saving this marriage. Those are Love Busters (ie - angry outbursts) and they should be avoided at all costs.

Here is a quick link to the MB Methodology that a very "old timer" poster once wrote:

Love Busters

It's the second post down, and this formula helped me out a lot when I was dealing with my wife's affair.

I would also, for the time being, stop going onto her MySpace Page if it will cause you a lot of pain. I know the curiosity can be unbearable (I've been there - believe me), but right now you really need to just focus on YOU, and YOURSELF. Inflicting self-pain right now will only be counterproductive until you can read the books and gain a better understanding of what you are dealing with. Then you will be able to look at it with a little less emotion and a clearer sense of what things you can do to help rebuild the marriage.

You are not alone. Many have gone through EXACTLY the same thing you have and have recovered and gone on to have very successful marriages. Stay strong, and remember - NO Love Busters!

All the best,

-HD

Well I thought it was dying until I read his reply which said, i do want you here more than anything, i hope your still coming over tonight, and i feel like you have every quality in a partner, i dont know if i can provide for you and i feel i have manipulated you into leaving your husband, I just want to kick this guys butt

JJ...

Expose to HER family and friends. Do this. Find out his family and expose to them...live in truth, JJ...they are both in lalaland...what he said isn't real...and yeah, he's half of the manipulation into leaving her husband (you)...and she's the other half...allowing his influence and shutting out your influence.

Expose. Speak straight. "I do not believe you are sorry for having affairs and portraying yourself as single on the internet. I believe you want your ENs met by strangers and by me. I want our marriage and a monogamous relationship with you which is fulfilling and thriving for both us."

Statements matter. Exposure matters. Don't think of it as dying or not...choose to not believe until you have proof...myspace GONE, she goes transparent and no contact with any male she's not married to...for now, 'k?

Hurts reading their garbage...and it is garbage...and it mortifyingly embarrassing after withdrawal, when the fog lifts. Eeewwweee. I swear.

Expose to his family...track them down...PI or friends as PI's...live in truth and know it, JJ...

Hang in there...

LA

I just dont know if exposing her to her family is the right thing to do bc she is a very strong willed person.

Respect that your wife is separate from you...she chooses her life...she chose you...to marry you...you have no control over what she feels, thinks, believes or does...

Exposure is a truth about you, not her. Do you want to live in truth or participate in lies? We lie by omission...by not telling...like WS's don't tell you about their affairs...they withhold.

You get to choose how you live...it's the balance to being limited to only being able to control yourself, not others.

If the "right thing to do" is dependent on personality, we're all sunk, aren't we? That means, no rules apply to humans...only individuals, different rules for each one.

We are all humans, same limits and power...we are all equal...separate...we make our choices...no one can make us do, feel, think or believe anything...our choice.

If honesty is part of your personal code...your standards and boundaries...then you're betraying yourself by not exposing, aren't you? You're participating in the conspiracy...and a fantasy.

In Plan A, you're the reality bringing...you have to stay grounded in what actually is, because your WW can't do that while in fantasy.

Will you respect yourself is the question, JJ...you matter. Will you choose from your code or her possible response...which is manipulative, not honest?

Your choice.

LA

I just feel I am at wits ends, that they have already committed so many love busters, and yet i try and be supportive yet I enable her, I have no idea what will wake her up because she is spending the night at his house as we speak. I feel no one can help her but herself.

Do you want to go to Plan B?

LA

I have read up on plan a and b and I took that you were supposed to give plan a some time unless it was an abusive situation. I think I am giving my self a date that if things do not change by this date plan b must go into effect.

I asked because you said you were at your wit's end.

Your wife was sleeping with another man as you posted.

Same for others here on the boards, right now...in real time.

Were you attempting to convey how angry and devastated you felt? What do you feel?

Plan A is being authentic...living in truth and knowing yours. Being brave and true...not afraid of sharing what is only yours...thoughts, feelings and beliefs.

Your brevity doesn't communicate with clarity. That's why I asked...sometimes, less is less.

:::Editing that last paragraph:::

That's a DJ...sorry 'bout that. I don't do well with few words...I need a lot to comprehend. I'm patient and I'll wait for them. It's a me thing, 'k?

::::Hoping you'll see my edit::::

LA

I love my wife more than anything, I would do anything for her, I'm trying my hardest to find out what emotional needs I did not meet that caused her to stray, I was trying to explain my anger but once I get going its hard to stop. I want more than anything to get into recovery, I have told her that I would have open arms for her and not resent her. I told her that I understood this could not happen over night. I have tried to make our home a safe place for her. I feel like the guilt is what doesnt make it a safe place. I have conveyed to her how much she hurt me and that the lies hurt more. I'm doing things out of love for her without expecting things in return. I text message her just to say how is your day. I try not to pressure her and I try to fight for her. And I'm trying my hardest not to read emails anymore bc they just set me off. I know that she knows what she is doing is wrong. I guess I just feel like how can I compete when this other man excites her so much. I'm trying to be brave and strong. I think I just need to explain more to get more information on the situation. I understand the fog and the puppy dog teenager feeling of love. I guess I feel if I take a stand for myself then that gives her every reason to go to him. My friends think I should go ahead and file. I feel that is the last option. I do want to live in truth.

Here is another I don't understand my wife recently lost her job and just started a new one last thursday, she asks me last week for money from our savings so she can pay her bills, she started her own checking account a month ago, which she is using to pay her happy hour bills, and eating bills, but she used our check card to go buy her some things at walmart tonight, when it comes to money its our money but its my stuff and her stuff, and my apartment, she conveys this to me, Am I in the fog?

JJ,

"I love my wife more than anything, I would do anything for her," This isn't loving, just feels like it. I remember it well.

If I loved hard enough, well enough, I would be loved back in the way I could feel it and be filled up.

Doesn't work that way in human lives. Just in our beliefs.

If you would do anything for her...you would betray yourself, love her more than yourself...then you will continue a cycle which hasn't been growing you...

Give and give to get...don't get...resent...feel inadequate...hate feeling inadequate...feel deep anger...rejection...try harder, give more; resent more, feel shame; resent to stop feeling shame; then give more...

Viscious to yourself, don't you think?

There's no competition with OM, JJ...you are apples and oranges...same gender...ends there. You're reality and he's fantasy...this is about her and choices.

Be good to yourself and know this truth...choose to believe it.

"I guess I feel if I take a stand for myself then that gives her every reason to go to him."

Think this one out after some deep breaths...

Is there ever any reason to commit adultery? No. There are excuses and justifications...which aren't real...

There is no reason.

You can't make her go to him...she is choosing deceit, cake-eating. You cannot make her do anything.

This is truth...not just mine. Do you really understand human power and limits?

Taking a stand for your marriage is what you want to do. Marriage is for two people only; no third persons allowed.

Exposing spreads truth. Brings reality. If you are unwilling to do that, then the affair has to die it's natural death...

And you're up against a married woman choosing a single-state of mind...multiple possible partners...

You can only control you...you set your own standards and boundaries.

"My friends think I should go ahead and file. I feel that is the last option."

There are steps inbetween...

You can move her stuff out and loving set the boundary that until she ends all contact with OM, she can't come home. Her choice. You don't do three-way marriage...not in your code.

Then you Plan A from a distance...respectful...listen and repeat...own your stuff...share your stuff...no LBs...

You can then try a 180...where you do not ask about her, chit chat or be there for her...you begin living your own life...focusing on your own self-care...not ignoring but not inviting...

Plan B is not a date you set...it is when you must protect what love you have left from being extinguished by your own pain.

Leaves all the ENs to OM to meet...you go dark; no contact at all...in anyway...you write a loving Plan B letter to shine the way back home...you get a third-party for all communication necessary...and they shield you from the lies and emotional blaming...

"I do want to live in truth." Good to know, JJ. Tell me your truth...what I'm hearing is all the mechanics of what you're trying to do and not seeing results...

What else have you discovered about you, how you live, what you believe?

You're important. In fact, you're the most important person here in your marriage...because you're here.

You are brave and strong, JJ. No trying about it. You are.

Do not cut yourself emotionally reading her emails...no more snooping, 'k?

Not good self-care.

LA

You're not in the fog in regards to money.

Separate your finances completely. Tell her, I don't support affairs. I don't financially contribute to adultery.

No money.

She will have to file separation/divorce papers to get maintenance (if she can...I have no clue)...which means she will own at least the reality of being separated, ending her marriage.

This isn't you being mean or manipulative. This is you not supporting her affair.

Your choice.

I would hold onto the savings and begin depositing your earnings into a separate account from today forward...and leave the mutual account, unless access to savings, half full...her half pre-A level.

That's fair and reasonable...you could move all the money to new accounts (if you're the primary and I expect you are), and treat them like escrow...don't touch unless by court-order...or whatever legal documents do that stuff.

She moved out...make sure all of her stuff is moved out...and do so without malice....with the intent to bring reality, know it and live it.

Kind, respectful, present and commuicative...no retaliation.

That's my thinking tonight...what's yours?

LA

I'm thinking this is hard and I know what I believe in. That I do want only a 2 person marriage, not 3, She has been living or eating at her sister's house, for about 4 weeks now, most of her personal things are there, some of winter clothes are still here, and other personal things, I believe I do need to take a hard stance, but I'm such a soft hearted person. I think I'm finally seeing the light go off. I will see her tommorrow and think really hard and what to say and what not to say and formulate a plan. I want the person I married back. You right I havent been taking care of myself I have lost 25lbs in 6 weeks, and I was already thin to begin with, my work has suffered, I am seeking professional counseling which told me to get a divorce bc of our repetitive past, and true love you dont expect things in return do you, I did buy myself some new things, to think about myself, and I have put her first in my thoughts about what if I do this or that. This website is awesome. I don't feel as much resentment anymore. And no judging eyes like in a divorce group, I have pretty much let her bleed our saving s dry bc of her not working then spending almost a 1000 dollars for gas,eating, and going out, not to mention $450 for a placement of an IUD after she left, I'm dumb, I will no longer snoop, bc they were outside his house tonight when I drove by. I almost feel like I dont know how to meet her emotional needs bc I cant even think of what they are, she her biggest thing is to be understood.

I decided that I need to put the pain on the topshelf and quit doing this to myself and start living instead of being stagnant, I know the marriage I had is gone, but there still is possibility to have an even better marriage with my wife, I need to fully enforce plan A

Is there any way I can grab her attention? Or when they are in the fog is it impossible?

I exposed her to her mother, today, told her what was going on, she knew that we were not living together, I had to reveal her fantasy land, bc I believe in truths and not adultery.

jj,

I hope you have gotten the books by now. But if not, let me reiterate that Plan B is almost always impossible unless followed by an effective Plan A that has shown a consistent change in your marital behaviors.

But that doesn't mean Plan A should make you a doormat. It is, instead, a tool to help to entice your wife back to reconsidering the marriage. Exposure is a part of it. Avoiding Love Busters is a HUGE part of it. And meeting whatever needs she will allow you to meet is also a part of it (although it may not seem effective at the time).

It is usually only done for a short period of time (3-6 months). That's because that's about how long most betrayed spouses can handle it before losing what's left of the love they have for their WS.

If, through Plan A, the affair has not ended in the 3-6 month window, then Plan B is usually adopted. It's used to fully separate yourself from your spouse NOT in "retaliation" for the affair, but instead to protect what's left of the love you have for them. It then becomes a "waiting game." If the affair dies after separation (and most do, by the way), the wayward spouse then will usually come back to you if you had done a good job in Plan A.

This is a very "simplified" version, by the way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The books and articles on this website deal with this in a more in-depth manner.

Since it looks like your wife has already 'effectively' moved out, I would consider giving Steve or Jennifer at the counseling center here a call. The link is at the top of the page under "counseling center." They can help to guide you into what the next best step would be. Your Plan A might have to be done "from afar." That's much more difficult and complicated, and way beyond even the best advice you could expect to receive from these boards.

Including mine. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

All the best,

-HD

Well I saw her tonight, and she said she couldnt choose me over him, and that she wants to be with him, and doesnt want to be with me, how do I continue, she says there is nothing left in our relationship to fight for. that she doesnt like hurting me and doesnt want to continue to hurt me, and that i will always hold this over her head.

jj,

Of course she's going to say that. She's in the fog of an affair!

It's your choice...but if you think there's any hope left (or if you want there to be), please give the Counseling Center here a call.

Divorce is cheap compared to what they charge, and believe me, you will want to look in the mirror one day and at least tell yourself you did everything you could.

All the best,

-HD