Well said, 1year.

Unfortunately, as many here can attest, the CHURCH is often the source of the A, or it is the place where it is allowed to safely grow. This kind of hypocrisy makes it hard for many "Christians" to feel the full wrath of their transgressions.

As you know, folks will twist the Scripture to mean whatever they want. (It wasn't my NEIGHBOR'S wife--it was a stranger's wife. I didn't COVET her--I banged her. I wasn't the ADULTERER---I wasn't married. blah blah.)


It's wrong, sure.


Doesn't change the fact that our society, even the Christian society, doesn't place enough emphasis on respecting the M. I take attending a marriage very seriously, and will defend those M's more fervently than other M's. I feel that by attending, I've become a sort of "Godparent" to the M itself, and thus must work to save it.


I have found that I'm in the minority. I have friends who are far more religious than I who give huge amounts to their church, then commit unspeakable affairs, or support other's affairs. Thus, I've come to look at those who say they are Christian's with a wry eye. I always want to ask...What kind of Christian are you? One who serves God and works to help others (a.k.a. Mother Teresa)? Or are you one of the witch-burning, Crusade-supporting, hypocritical types that I've come to know so well? Many folks think they are the former, but when the [censored] hits the fan, they act like the latter.


This doesn't even touch those who have no sense of moral compass, whether they are atheist, or just don't subscribe to Western ethics. Fact is--the majority of our culture only pays lip-service to fidelity. Very sad testimony, but look around--It's true.

it's wrong to lie, cheat, steal, break vows, hurt people, commit murder, etc, etc

it's wrong to help anyone lie, cheat, steal, break vows, commit murder, etc, etc

the OP helps someone do these wrong things and, therefore, does wrong him or herself

example: WS is robbing a bank, OP is driving the getaway car, while OP was not the one actually robbing the bank, the OP was helping WS rob the band and, therefore, has done wrong and should face consequences

p.s. IMA -- I also believe in karma and I like your quote "I don't need to hate her--she will grow to hate herself." and she will have her fair share of hurt & pain & loss - sad what people do to themselves and others - I'll do my best to raise my children to know, do and be better

Whoa - just a dern minute:
Athiests and Easterners can't have a moral compass? Oooo - an Eastern Athiest must be doubly immoral!

Surely you didn't mean this, right?

WAT

WAT get with the program . . . Christianity has a very specific "morality" when it come to adultry:

And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
Leviticus 20:10

And of course Congress wouldn't be wasting all this time on the gay marriage thing if this country would just grow a backbone and practice Leviticus 20:13:

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.


If these things are morality then give me humanism any day.

WAT-
I'm having a tough time getting my point across this morning...sorry.

I had just devoted about 4 paragraphs addressing why I didn't have much faith in people, just because they called themselves "Christian."

I ran out of time to address atheists or those who subscribe to other religions, such as Judaism, Hindi, or the Church of the Subgenious. As a matter of fact, I think some of the Eastern religions have gone perhaps too far with their fidelity clauses--one might find oneself without certain parts of anatomy if caught in an A.

But seriously, my thesis statement would be this:

While the Bible may preach fidelity, the message is lost on many Christians. Furthermore, the majority of individuals in this world are not Christian, so we need to teach fidelity in an arena outside of the Christian model in order to reach most people.

Is that better? Please don't "crucify me" if my original words were not clear. Not sure if we're in disagreement on this subject. I think OP is wrong. Period. I don't think the rest of our world feels as strongly about this as folks in the MB umbrella do, and we need to work on changing that feeling. Then, and only then can we truly hold the OP in lowest regard.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
What program would that be? Your way or the highway?

My morals are just fine, thank you.


Then why so many Christian adulterers? Hmmmmmm?

Face it: claims of morality or professing authoritative morals is no predictor of future behavior.

WAT

Understood. Thanks.

WAT

WAT,

I think you missed my not-so-subtle sarcasm.

Let me try again . . . here are some questions that I've always wonder about . . .

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

It is hard for me to find "morality" in a lot of what the bible says.

Duh - yes. Went over my head.

My apologies.

WAT
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"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
H.L. MENCKEN (1880-1956)

WAT-
I can't recall, but I'm guessing you're one of the minority "non-Christians" on this board. I guess I would also fall into that category, as I don't attend Church, and have some pretty unflattering opinions of many who claim to be Christians.

I am a huge fan of those who live "Christ-like," i.e., they have a strong moral ethic, and practice what they preach. I find many of my very best friends are strongly religious. Not that they carry their Bible everywhere, but that they live a life that Christ (or any well-intentioned deity) would approve of. I cannot stand to be around folks who throw the Bible in my face as an excuse for what they do.

I may or may not ever live a life that would make Christians happy, but I do follow the paradigm that I once heard Billy Graham talk about: I behave consistently and according to what I feel is right or wrong, regardless of whether others are watching me or not. No, I'm not perfect, but I'm also not malicious, I help those less fortunate, and I try to teach my children the difference between "knowing" what's right and wrong, and "doing" what's right. If I go to ****** because I didn't join an official Church, then so be it.

But back to the original subject---There are a lot of Christians on this site, and I'm not sure if it's their Christianity that draws them here, or that the Christianity comes later. Harley is certainly Christian. Unfortunately, many Christians outside of the MB umbrella do not fully grasp the "sin" involved with being the OP. We as a culture need to try harder.