Well, that's it. I'm done. I'm throwin' in the towel. After 2 years of living like this, I am simply not going to do it any more. I cracked WH's cell code tonight and lo and behold - a message from OW: "I'm just calling 'cause I miss you. Anyway, I'll meet you later." Clear and convincing evidence of ongoing contact? You bet. I have been lied to long enough. I am going to ask him to leave, and I can't wait to get my life back. My only regret is that our little DD's life will be disrupted. Thank you all for your patience and advice. I wish all of you good health and good luck. Stung

I think you need to think about going to Plan B, just for the heck of it.

Believer, I don't think I can do an effective Plan B. Our DD has a chronic illness that requires frequent hospital treatment. I just don't think I can go dark under these circumstances. And besides, the risk of a long term Plan A has taken hold - I really don't even like him much anymore.

ya know, I happen to agree with this statement wholeheartedly. "Half hearting" a Plan B or "modifiying" it is worse in my opinion. If one doesn't think they can do it effectively, they shouldn't. Sometimes, "enough...is enough". I don't agree with for the "heck of it". When someone is crashing in the ICU and for all intents and purposes "dead"...I would never crack their chest open for the heck of it. Not saying this is the case here, but perhaps it is.

Lem

I agree with you LM. I should have been more helpful -didn't remember about DD needing frequent hospital treatments.

Stungalong - Probably your best bet is Dobson's plan. Tell your husband that you love him, but can't keep him against his will. Open the cage door, and let him go.

Many times, that is enough to bring them back (if you still want him).

That's a great analogy - quite accurate in fact. On behalf of Believer, she has been a great supporter of mine over the past several months. I think it was just a kind, last ditch effort to get me to take the advice that I have been given, time and again, in the past. But I really do think I will be in a better place without him . . . did I mention the 12K he stole from my investment account (after he did it before and all of you told me to protect my assets?) I'm a slow learner. But this turtle's getting off her rock.

Believer - Thanks, I think I will do that, if only for DD's sake. We have to take her out of state tomorrow for a medical procedure and I will wait until we return. No reason to have stony faces the whole trip. Thanks again.

p.s. Where did "Dobson's Plan" come from? I think this is the first I've heard of it.

I have it saved on my computer at work. Hopefully someone here will have it. It works on the principle that once you open the door and let them go, they may finally get it.

I'll post it tomorrow if no one here has it.

Thanks, Believer! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just wanted to say the Dobson plan referenced here is from the book LOVE MUST BE TOUGH authored by Dobson himself.

It's not a plan as much as MB is with steps, etc,. though it was been one of my greatest catalysts for understanding boundaries, not becoming a doormat, etc.

It is a book I recommend to all.

Hi,
I will be honest ...I don't have a clue about your whole situation but I just wanted to say how sorry I am to hear of your sad reality of your husbands ignorance. I am a FWS, my wife and I are trying to get our M back on track and I see how exhausting it can be for the BS. It is hard to recover from an A. You put in 2 years worth of work to fix something he broke and to hear about your husband not doing his part makes me mad <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> . We as "WS's" are so lucky to have a wife who loves us enough to give us an UNDESERVING try to recover the M from an affair. I always say it takes one spouse to destroy a M but it takes two to build one. I hope things work out for you and your daughter. I will keep you two in my prayers tonight for God to be the light unto your path...he WILL show you the way...if you ask.

Hello iamsosorry - I just read your post and it brought tears to my eyes. You are very lucky indeed, as is your DW. Thank you for your kind words and thoughts. Stung

Here is that Dobson thing -



Hope for Couples in Crisis

by James C. Dobson, Ph.D.




Nothing is more inspirational than the uniting of two unique and divergent personalities in a marital commitment that will last for a lifetime, with God’s help.

Who can comprehend this mysterious bonding that enables a man and woman to withstand the many storms of life and remain best friends to the end of their lives together? This phenomenon is so remarkable that the Apostle Paul, under divine inspiration, chose it to symbolize the unfathomable bond of love between Jesus Christ and His bride, the church. We could spend a month or two just thinking about the implications of that wonderful analogy.

Unfortunately, a depressing number of today’s marriages end on a less inspirational note. Indeed, Western nations are witnessing a continuing epidemic of dysfunctional relationships. A recent study done by sociologists at Rutgers University concluded that the institution of marriage itself appears to be dying.1 I shudder to contemplate what life will be like (and how children will suffer) if the researchers prove to be right!

The agony inflicted by divorce cannot be overstated. It was this tragic situation that led me to write Love Must Be Tough, which continues to be one of my most popular books. It addresses not only marriages in distress, but concepts that will strengthen less troubled relationships. Let me focus my comments this month on the most important among them.

The standard approach to marriage counseling is to teach husbands and wives how to revitalize unhealthy relationships and help them work through their conflicts. Unfortunately, such advice assumes that both parties are equally motivated to work on their problems. That is rarely the case. Typically, when a marriage is unraveling, there is one partner who is less concerned about the prospect of divorce, while the other is terrified by it. At its worse, as in cases of infidelity, the drifting member often has little desire to engage in counseling, except perhaps as a pretense to lessen guilt or criticism. He or she may have decided already that the relationship is over. It has been my observation that the way the committed partner responds at that vital juncture will determine whether the marriage will survive or succumb. I’ll explain why in a moment.

Only those who have been rejected by a beloved spouse can fully comprehend the tidal wave of pain that crashes into one’s life when a relationship ends. Nothing else matters. There are no consoling thoughts. The future is without interest or hope. Emotions swing wildly from despair to acceptance and back again. Nothing in human experience can compare with the agony of knowing that the person to whom you pledged eternal devotion has betrayed your trust and is now involved in sexual intimacies with a “stranger”… a competitor ... a more beautiful or handsome playmate. Death itself would be easier to tolerate than being tossed aside like an old shoe.

If one word must be selected to describe the entire experience, it would be something equivalent to panic. Just as a drowning person exhausts himself or herself in a desperate attempt to grasp anything that floats, a rejected partner typically tries to grab and hold the one who is leaving. This panic then leads to appeasement, which destroys what is left of the marriage.

Let’s look for a moment at the other half of the relationship — focusing on the individual who wants out of the marriage. What secrets lie deep within the mind of the woman who has an affair with her boss, or the man who chases the office flirt? Surprising to some, the desire for sex is not the primary motivator in such situations. Something much more basic is operating below the surface.

Long before any decision is made to “fool around” or walk out on a partner, a fundamental change has begun to occur in the relationship. Many books on this subject lay the blame on the failure to communicate, but I disagree. The inability to talk to one another is a symptom of a deeper problem, but it is not the cause itself. The critical element is the way a husband or wife begins to devalue the other and their lives together. It is a subtle thing at first, often occurring without either partner being aware of the slippage. But as time passes, one individual begins to feel trapped in a relationship with someone he or she no longer respects.

Now we begin to see why groveling, crying and pleading by a panic-stricken partner tend to drive the claustrophobic partner even farther away. The more he or she struggles to gain a measure of freedom (or even secure a little breathing room), the more desperately the rejected spouse attempts to hang on.

Perhaps it is now apparent where the present line of reasoning is leading us. If there is hope for dying marriages, and I certainly believe there is, then it is likely to be found in the reconstruction of respect between warring husbands and wives. That requires the vulnerable spouse to open the cage door and let the trapped partner out! All the techniques of containment must end immediately, including manipulative grief, anger, guilt and appeasement. Begging, pleading, crying, hand-wringing and playing the role of the doormat are equally destructive. There may be a time and place for strong feelings to be expressed, and there may be an occasion for quiet tolerance. But these responses must not be used as persuasive devices to hold the drifting partner against his or her will.

To the reader who is desperately in need of this advice, please pay close attention at this point: I’m sure you would not have dreamed of using these coercive methods to convince your husband or wife to marry you during your dating days. You had to lure, attract, charm and encourage him or her. This subtle game of courtship had to take place one delicate step at a time. Obviously, it would not have been successful if you had wept violently and hung on the neck of your lover saying, “I think I’ll die if you don’t marry me! My entire life amounts to nothing without you. Please! Oh, please, don’t turn me down,” etc.

Coercing and manipulating a potential marriage partner is like high-pressure tactics by a used car salesman. What do you think he would accomplish by telling a potential customer through his tears, “Oh, please, buy this car! I need the money so badly and I’ve only had two sales so far this week. If you turn me down, I think I’ll go straight out and kill myself!”

This is a ridiculous analogy, of course, but there is applicability to it. When one has fallen in love with an eligible partner, he attempts to “sell himself” to the other. But like the salesman, he must not deprive the buyer of free choice in the matter. Instead, he must convince the customer that the purchase is in his own interest. If a person would not buy an automobile to ease the pain of a salesman, how much more unlikely is he to devote his entire being to someone he doesn’t love, simply for benevolent reasons? None of us is that unselfish. Ideally, we are permitted by God to select only one person in the course of a lifetime, and few are willing to squander that one shot on someone we merely pity! In fact, it is very difficult to love another person romantically and pity him or her at the same time.

If begging and pleading are ineffective methods of attracting a member of the opposite sex during the dating days, why do victims of bad marriages use the same groveling techniques to hold a drifting spouse? They only increase the depth of disrespect by the one who is escaping. Instead, they should convey their own version of the following message when the time is right: “John [or Diane], I’ve been through some very tough moments since you decided to leave, as you know. My love for you is so profound that I just couldn’t face the possibility of life without you. To a person like me, who expected to marry only once and to remain committed for life, it is a severe shock to see our relationship begin to unravel. Nevertheless, I have done some intense soul-searching, and I now realize that I have been attempting to hold you against your will. That simply can’t be done. As I reflect on our courtship and early years together, I’m reminded that you married me of your own free choice. I did not blackmail you or twist your arm or offer you a bribe. It was a decision you made without pressure from me. Now you say you want out of the marriage, and obviously, I have to let you go. I’m aware that I can no more force you to stay today than I could have made you marry me in 1989 [or whenever]. You are free to go. If you never call me again, then I will accept your decision. I admit that this entire experience has been painful, but I’m going to make it. The Lord has been with me thus far and He’ll go with me in the future. You and I had some wonderful times together, John. You were my first real love and I’ll never forget the memories that we shared. I will pray for you and trust that God will guide you in the years ahead.”

Slowly, unbelievably, the trapped spouse witnesses the cage door vibrate just a bit, and then start to rise. He can’t believe it. This person to whom he has felt bound hand and foot for years has now set him free! It isn’t necessary to fight off her advances — her grasping hands — any more.

“But there must be a catch,” he thinks. “It’s too good to be true. Talk is cheap. This is just another trick to win me back. In a week or two she’ll be crying on the phone again, begging me to come home. She’s really weak, you know, and she’ll crack under pressure.”

It is my strongest recommendation that you, the rejected person, prove your partner wrong in this expectation. Let him marvel at your self-control in coming weeks. Only the passage of time will convince him that you are serious — that he is actually free. He may even test you during this period by expressions of great hostility or insult, or by flirtation with others. But one thing is certain: He will be watching for signs of weakness or strength. The vestiges of respect hang in the balance.

If the more vulnerable spouse passes the initial test and convinces the partner that his freedom is secure, some interesting changes begin to occur in their relationship. Please understand that every situation is unique and I am merely describing typical reactions, but these developments are extremely common in families I have seen. Most of the exceptions represent variations on the same theme. Three distinct consequences can be anticipated when a previously “grabby” lover begins to let go of the cool spouse:

The trapped partner no longer feels it necessary to fight off the other, and their relationship improves. It is not that the love affair is rekindled, necessarily, but the strain between the two partners is often eased.
As the cool spouse begins to feel free again, the question he has been asking himself changes. After wondering for weeks or months, “How can I get out of this mess?” he now asks, “Do I really want to go?” Just knowing that he can have his way often makes him less anxious to achieve it. Sometimes it turns him around 180 degrees and brings him back home!
The third change occurs not in the mind of the cool spouse but in the mind of the vulnerable one. Incredibly, he or she feels better — somehow more in control of the situation. There is no greater agony than journeying through a vale of tears, waiting in vain for the phone to ring or for a miracle to occur. Instead, the person has begun to respect himself or herself and to receive small evidences of respect in return. Even though it is difficult to let go once and for all, there are ample rewards for doing so. One of those advantages involves the feeling that he or she has a plan — a program — a definite course of action to follow. That is infinitely more comfortable than experiencing the utter despair of powerlessness that the victim felt before. And little by little, the healing process begins.
This recommendation is consistent with the Apostle Paul’s writings in 1 Corinthians 7:15, “But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances. God has called us to live in peace.” Paul is not authorizing the rejected spouse to initiate a divorce in these instances. He is, rather, instructing a man or woman to release the marital partner when he or she is determined to depart. The advice I have offered today is an expression of that scripture.

Dobson's plan is funadmentally a version of Plan B. He doesn't specify no contact, but letting the WS out of the cage is what occurs in Plan B.

What Dobson doesn't address here is the extremely addictive quality of some affairs. Obviously we can see from Harley's readings and even this BBS that giving the WS their freedom and letting go of your relationship doesn't always mean the WS will come back, even though the affair is likely to die out.

And, of course, the worst part of either plan is waiting for the WS's affair to burn out, which can take years.

The more I read the failures on these threads, the more pessimistic I get about my own case. I can't imagine waiting for years for my wife to come out of the fog as some of these fine folks have done.

Hiker - You don't sit around waiting. You make your life a good one, and hope that your partner will join you.

Right. But emotionally you are waiting, otherwise it isn't really a plan, is it? Just you starting your life over without your spouse.

I've been doing this for 3 and a half years. Yes, at first I was waiting. But I forced myself to have my own life - now I don't want him back. But for a long time, I would have taken him back.

You know, it hurts to read that. Partly because I feel for you and partly because I feel like I'm reading my own fate.

believer,

Did your spouse's A end, or is it still going on?

Still going on. We are in the process of divorce. He has been living with the OW (who left her husband and daughter) for over 3 years now.

We came to a financial agreement last month. Two days ago, he came over and wanted to know if I thought our marriage was really over. As time has gone on, he has been more and more conflicted.

Unfortunately, I have lost all of my love for him.