Thanks Believer - interestingly, your sitch sounds like affirmation of Dobson's theory. Lately, I have been having trouble separating my true feelings about WH from those that the A has caused (e.g. "regardless of how I feel about him, I'll do whatever it takes to get him back"). It's kind of like shopping at a sale. You spy an item on the rack, and someone takes it. At that point, you MUST have that item, and you follow the person around the store until s/he puts it down. Then you snap it up and buy it. When you get home, you take it out of the bag and wonder what all the fuss was about. Before the A, I was not happy in the relationship. Why would I be happy again? Particularly when WH is not willing to make an effort to repair things? The only thing that gives me pause is the fact that he and DD are devoted to one another. But perhaps he's not devoted enough? Interestingly, he was married before and I often used to wonder "How could she give him up?" Now I wonder if I was an OW without knowing it. I don't trust him and I am really tired of looking over his shoulder. Based on the facts that (1) OW knows I know about them and (2) she is also aware of the stress we have been under with respect to our DD's illness, she can't be a nice person. So why not let him go to be with her? It will be his great loss.

So you weren't happy before the affair?

Well, there's one difference between us. I was very happy in my marriage; most people felt we were like a model couple. Things were good up until last July, which coincides with the beginning of the affair (although I didn't know it at the time). Then suddenly she grew more distant, started doing lots of activities without me, and began snapping at me for the littlest things.

I should have put it all together, but I didn't until I came across a fateful e-mail this past March.

"So you weren't happy before the affair?"

In the beginning, I was very happy. However, WH is very independent and the type that has alot going on at once. One of my top EN's is family time and commitment. Since we never saw each other (he works at night; I work during the day) we grew apart emotionally, stopped having SF, and that is when he started looking around. While I have always honored WH and our R, he is very flirty. When DD was DX, he really went haywire. His 1st PA was quickly followed by another. He still works with the 2nd OW (although on different shifts) and OW, who is nearly 20 years younger than him, is apparently still pursuing him. What I don't know for sure is whether or not he is pursuing her.

"Things were good up until last July, which coincides with the beginning of the affair (although I didn't know it at the time). Then suddenly she grew more distant, started doing lots of activities without me, and began snapping at me for the littlest things."

Yes, this was exactly my experience as well. I didn't pick up on it at first because I was so distressed/distracted with DD's illness.

Funny thing is, he SEEMED to be coming out of the fog . . .

Please wish me luck - I'm going to do Dobson tonight!

Good Luck...I know it won't be easy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

DD needs you more than H right now, so all your attention and energy should be focused on making each day the best for DD! Giving all your love to DD is an investment you are sure not to lose, she will always be yours!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


My prayers are with you...

Prayers to you. Let us know how it turns out.

Iamsosorry and Believer - many, many thanks. I just got home and WH is -- ASLEEP! Dang it! Dobson may have to wait until tomorrow!

No hurry. Leave it until you are very calm. Be sure to bat your eyes and smile.

You should have thrown a bucket of cold water on him, that would have woke him up! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well today is another day, maybe he will even realize for himself and come out of his imaginary world...
I doubt he will but it doesn't hurt to have a little wishful thinking right! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Well all I can say is our prayers were with you and when you got home your H was sleeping so it never too place. Perhaps that was an answered prayer, Perhaps last night wasn't a good time, perhaps God has his own plan and didn't want you messing it up. Well when the time is right things will take place and you can bet I will be praying for you and DD!

Have a nice day! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I did it! I did it! Now what? WH awoke from his slumber and I confronted him with the information that someone had seen him with OW. He denied it. I told him that I loved him, but that I could no longer be part of this triangle, and he was free to leave. I said I didn't want him to feel trapped if his herat wasn't in our M and therefore, he was free to go. He said that he thought we had been making some progress.

Fast forward to last night. I asked him something about OW. The conversation led to whether or not he was still seeing her. He said "only at work." He admitted, however, that they continue to call each other, mostly to "talk about DD." I said that I would prefer he didn't discuss DD with OW. He said that he would no longer see her at work or call her.

What on earth do I do now? I suppose I could ask him to send a NC letter, but I know he won't agree - if only because it is evidence of the A.

Any thoughts?

I would ask him to write a no contact letter. If he refuses, then you know he is still wanting to cake eat.

Thanks Believer - Do you know where I can find the NC letter groundrules? Thanks - Stung

It should be very impersonal. It should say that he made a big mistake, loves his wife, and is going to work on the marriage. For that reason, he wants no contact from her again for any reason.

Thanks, Believer.

Nice job... Now lets be real for a moment...How are you? Are you o-kay. What you did is something many spouses will never experience. But remember this is a good thing, you ARE showing your love by doing what you did. Sometimes tough love is hard to give but remember that it is still love!!

You and DD do deserve better BUT there is a man out there who is lost. He is a Husband and a Father. He has a wonderful Wife and a precious Daughter who love him very much. They can see him from the light house but they can't reach him or get through to him. There is fog , it's hard for Husband to see them. He is being knocked all over the place from the waves all his lies have caused. He sees a light but then it is gone he sees it again but then it is gone, because of the constant turning from light to dark...love to lust. You and DD must continue to be that light house and let the love shine thru his fog. If he wants to be saved he will find his way to your light but if he continues to lose focus on the love being shown he will drift farther and father out to the sea of lust and be lost for ever. No just to you but to himself as well. So just know you are doing everything you can and if your light of love isn't enough for him to find his way than you must figure he wasn't trying to find his way... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I definitely think the no contact letter should be sent. One of my biggest problems when I was a WS was I couldn't be mean to OW. I realize now I should have just ended the freakin A and sent that mistake on her way. But I was always trying to end it in a nice way so the OW wouldn't be mad or upset. But what was wrong about that is while trying to end it in a nice way to not get OW upset I was upsetting my W while this was going on even though she didn't know about it.

So I am now wondering if that may be the problem you will have to face next. He may refuse to write a no contact letter not because he want to "eat his cake" but because he doesn't want to upset OW. He would rather just try to walk way from it with out her noticing. You know, by not calling her or seeing her at work and talking about DD with OW. He thinks he will be able to wake up the next morning and act like he doesn't even know her. Crazy how we WS/FWS think but as our choices show we don't make realistic decisions while having the A. So just know that you may have some trouble with the no contact request and don't jump to the conclusion that it's because he wants to continue the A. I am not in his shoes and don't know what he is thinking but I just thought I would share my thoughts as a FWS to prepare you for the WS's pathetic logics of you situation. It won't be till he is out of it that he will look back and see how stupid he was and even wonder for himself ..."what the heck was I thinking!"

Hope DD is doing O-kay. Remember..."lighthouse". Let your love shine and she too will turn to it and fight her way back to better heatlh and into your arms !! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Iamsosorry, thank you for your post. It is so meaningful to hear from a FWS who has experienced an A and also recovery. I am so glad you have found your way. I think you may be quite right about WS, though I will probably never know. In our last conversation, WH mentioned that someone had seen his car on OW's street, but that it wasn't true. At first I wondered why he would tell me that. Now I am wondering if it is true.

As for DD, she has definitely suffered because of the unrest around here. I am basically tired and frustrated most of the time and have little patience. She threw up tonight and as I was cleaning it up, apparently looking quite unhappy, she asked if I was mad at her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Heartbreaking! I told her that of course I wasn't mad at her and I loved her very much. Your words about taking care of her are so important. I must be very careful about how my own state of being reflects on her, and regardless of anything else, put her first and foremost.

As for WH, I don't know where things are headed. He is making more of an effort than before, but the revelation that he is still in C with OW is devastating.

So what ever happen with the no contact letter? Hope things went well for you this past fathers day weekend and DD is staying strong!

Thanks for asking - we actually spent most of Saturday in the ER with DD because she has been so sick. I haven't had the time or energy to sit down with WH and tell him that I need a NC letter if we are to move forward. Apparently, he doesn't really care anyway. I am really quite angry that I was fooled into thinking that things were getting better, while WH was out doing whatever with OW. And - he keeps getting rewarded for it! What the heck?

Two years is a long time. I am almost at one year and I can't take any more. Believer has posted that Dobson thing to me a couple of times and I have finally gone that route. I don't think you should ever do anything if you are not willing to accept the possible consequences. Are you really prepared to accept life without WH? I struggle with this one. I love my WW but have come to the conclusion that I cannot continue to live like we are. Funny thing though, since I told her that we need to separate, things have really improved in every single way. Even so, we are going to separate. She has to know that I am serious and will not change my mind. I think the time apart will help us both. Whether we ever get back together or not in the future? I can accept it either way. I am not suggesting you do that. I am just curious if you have gotten to the point where you really could do it. I can't see how you have been able to maintain your love for WH for two years while he is still cheating. That is superhuman (and I admire that BTW).