I am curious on peoples views on the NEED to find a REASON for an affair...and exploring all the slopes, pittfalls, and positive ah-Ha...moments this can have....

I'm gonna say that I am torn on this .....

Dr. Harley says that ALL people are wired to have affairs....

so there begins the dichotomy...

what and who does it serve to delve deep in to the whys...

I am firmly in Believers camp that NOTHING a BS does causes an affair...
yet
on the other hand I am all for ..hearing out the WS "REASONS" for having an affair that they say the BS contributed to...

I find that information to be valueable and powerful for a BS to diffuse and address....and peel away the layers of excuses...till it's down to the bare bare layers of choice and onus....

then the real work of true recovery can proceed....

How much value and energy do we need to give to finding out reasons why that include...

parental blame
"abuse" blame....(blatant and perceived
pre-relationship mishaps..
etc
etc
etc....

how important is this stuff if we truly are all wired to have affairs....

how much energy and time is spent finding that "out"...

that "out" for both the WS and BS...
does that "out" soothe and serve both the WS and BS to feel better...

he/she did this because ________________________

Also how much DO past bad experiences DEFINE us...
how much do past bad experiences become valuable learning tools and stepping stones...

how do we differentiate those...

are they positive when they serve us...
I over came this or that...
and then excuses when we are searching for excuses...
I was ___________________ when I was _________therefor I cheated.....?

my gut reaction...
is to not concern ourselves with the "why" too early on in recovery...

to me there is not much point...

too many pitfalls of potential

excusing
deflecting

too much potential for the WS to grasp on to issues way way in the past....and cling to them to avoid onus of today...

but that's my opinion....

but i had a great child-hood...but I still am capable of an affair.....

I also say that people have experienced horrific things...ie hollocaust...and still gone on to have great lives......
productive
loving
lives....

my personal opinion..

deal with the why...the perceived deep psychological whys...
AFTER true recovery...

not in the mix ..

what say you...

ARK

Hi ARK,

I was one to search for the "why" or the "message" of the affair. I can't remember which book I read that advocated this. It might have been After the Affair or Torn Asunder.

It wasn't aimed at finding an excuse for FWH's behavior. Instead, I needed to find out "why" to either be prepared in the future for similar life-events which brought on that stress which led to FWH making a choice against his morals and upbringing, or to make changes in my own behavior towards him, or if "Why" turned out to be "just because" to make my decision as to my boundaries and leave.

So, no search for excuses - just search for means for future protection.

I don't necessarily accept the premise that we are all "wired" to have affairs. That sounds too much like we are predisposed to having them. I don't believe that.

I think that there are conditions in which just about everyone can be tempted into having an affair. Yet some manage to resist this temptation despite not having their emotional needs met; others can't.

If all it took was the failure of having one's emotional needs met to commit an affair, then all BS's would be soon gravitate toward an affair since their needs aren't being met by the WS.

I firmly believe there are self-esteem issues at work in some of these cases. Spouses who ask, "Am I still attractive to the opposite sex?" etc., and who take that question with them right into an affair.

You would think fulfilling the emotional need for admiration and affection would prevent that from happening, but I have seen cases where one spouse cheated on the other in spite of being adored.

Then there is the type of personality that requires excitement to achieve a kind of high; the folks that bungee jump, etc. But instead of bungee jumping they get their high from having sex with a stranger or conducting a long term secret affair.

Ark,

I believe you are right here. Repair the marriage put the family together then figure out why. Although sometimes the why plays a large part in whether or not the BS wants to stay and repair the marriage. The why may also be a deciding factor in the "If the marriage can even be rebuilt."

In some cases the why may change the BSs desire to stay and rebuild the M. In others it may not make a difference.

ark,

I too benefitted from knowing the "whys" but more importantly the "hows". The whys (Why did you do this?) were very obvious....and not about me. The hows (How could you do this?).....were where we delved into the weakness of character (choice and onus). All of that information was absolutely essential for me to create a real recovery plan that worked. For the whys....we had to change our lifestyle so that we weren't separated all the time....it meant moving, changing jobs etc before recovery would be complete. For the hows....it meant that he had alot of personal work to do....the conditions for reconciliation therefore included for him....individual therapy, confession to his priest, going to church, doing community service, giving away some material possessions and generally raising his consciousness and spirit.

I think hiker....

that we are ALL capable of rationalization as a preservation
and that perhaps we all think or do things...


that we rationalize as NOT effecting our spouses...when they do....

I think that our brains are wired to do that...

which doesn't equate having an affair...

but I know that I have in my life overstepped boundaries..

Ie made fun my husband as a man to girlfriends...for the laugh...
because everyone was slamming their men..
becuase of attention...

whatever it was...

I used him at his expense for my need....

I did that...

I am capable of that...

am I capable of an affair...I hope not the whole thought makes me physically ill....

but I am capable of cheap shots to get the laugh....(not so much any more...but in my hay days of girls rule men drool...


I could emmasculate the best of them...even my spouse...

ARKie...

Well, I agree that we are all capable of rationalizing poor behavior.

It is certainly true that things we do can affect our spouses, but how many of the WS's we hear about on these boards go to their spouses and confess their concern about marital problems BEFORE the affair?

Isn't that a little suspicious? And doesn't it lend credence to the idea that it is easier to put over a big lie on someone than a bunch of little ones? (As in why the BS drove the WS to the affair.)

Even after about 6 years or more of this whole entire AFFAIR BUSINESS, I personally have decided that I will NEVER come up with a simplistic, rational explanation for my H's A. There are just SO MANY VARIABLES as NOODLE stated about another issue.

However, I do like exploring the causes. Don't you think it's human nature to want to make sense out of things that seem so SENSELESS..doing this as a means of coping with such a TRAUMA..such a CATASTROPHE...

My life as I once knew it is almost COMPLETELY turned around in sooo many ways...but I NEVER WOULD HAVE DREAMED that my life would be like this..like people must feel after losing everything they own in a fire and having to start anew...



So delving into the whys for me is mainly an exercise in coping..this process does not help us day-to-day in our marriage from a practical point-of-view...Delving into the whys has mainly been helpful in my PERSONAL RECOVERY...



In terms of MARITAL RECOVERY, the WHYS have ONLY be helpful in considering what BEHAVIORS need to be changed in the present. As the other poster said, what do we need to do DAILY to SAFEGUARD our MARRIAGE and our LOVE and PROTECTION of each other? Just like yesterday, my H learned that a new friend of his has a history of having As (as told to him by the friends wife). Whether or not this is true or not, my H said: "That's not a man that I need to spend time with..that's not a couple we need to socialize with.." This plan was in response to one of those WHYS...Instances like this come up all of the time.



Totally agree with you on this one, Ark...

I think what is ESSENTIAL during early recovery is to FOCUS ON THE PRESENT..creating a new life together and enjoying each new day to the fullest...that's the purpose of those 15 hours...

Harley spells it all out in his EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS AND FOUR RULES OF MARITAL RECOVERY...

The Harleys have all the bases covered. That's why I love this program. I am a person that reads and follows the directions....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

but how many of the WS's we hear about on these boards go to their spouses and confess their concern about marital problems BEFORE the affair?

few to none because that is their 'reason' for the affair...
their rationalization...


OP love to believe the BS is the roooot of all evil...

the fact that they are with someone willing to lay onus on someone else...

basically saying...you are better choice only because you 'behave'

should be huge huge red flags for OP..
but they are in their own world of rationalization...

blech...

ARK

Just want to throw in that Steve Harley called me on this. I was whining about my H not telling me about his needs/problems.

Steve threw back the onus on ME...something to the effect of..if your marriage was OK, if you were senstitive to what was going on with your H, why does he need to TELL you everything..AND maybe he was trying to tell you but you weren't listening...

The point is..the need to take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and to not BLAME your WS..We need to take responsibility for ourselves...

This is not saying that we, the BSes cause the A...Of course, that is ALL on the WS..but we did contribute to the marital problems that made our spouses VULNERABLE...

BTW, ark, the MB System, seems highly BEHAVIORAL..not focusing on the past at all but problemmatic MARITAL BEHAVIORS that need to be identified/addressed/changed.

I agree that WHY is not so important as dealing with all the elements of recovery. WHY can be considered later but may never be fully understood. And thereby lies a problem: if you never fully understand WHY, you can never be certain that it won't happen again.

You can only hope.

Then why is it that the WS's do such a good job of communicating what was wrong with the BS's after the affair?

And if the BS didn't get the message before the affair, then whose failure is it, the one who sends the message or the one who feels he/she never received it?

I think BS's take responsibility for marital problems for several reasons:

1. There really are problems.
2. There weren't any REAL problems, but the WS has manufactured some to cover his/her guilt, thus the BS accepts them in an effort to reach a compromise.
3. There are some real problems and some imagined and a decision is made to accept them all as part of the reality of the WS in an effort toward reconciliation.

I think Why is very important.

There is so much pain--it feels absurd to have that pain without finding a reason for it.

Plus, it may feel like a way to predict (or prevent) an affair--bringing some sense of control to the situation when a person feels so vulnerable for the future.

I personally, was on a quest to understand Why. How could I have put myself and my family where I did? How did I get where I never thought I could be!? My brain obsessed over this until I got to the bottom of it.

Hi arkie - as to the "why" search, I think at it core it's simply to find out what needs to be fixed.

Why did the tire go flat? Oh, that nail looks like a good reason - better resolve that before we pump it back up.

How do you know the problem is really resolved without knowing the cause?

Og course, there may be more than one "cause." But ususally there's a root cause and possibly there's contributing causes.

I have personally struggled with the "we're all hard wired for affairs" dogma. OK, then we're all hard wired for robbing banks and stealing cars too, perhaps. I don't like the suggested "devil made me do it" irresponsibility. I suspect Harley's "hard wired" statement is really rooted in recognition of our main reason for being here - to perpetuate the species.

JMHO

WAT

ahuman...

good post..I like the way you worded it....

it feels absurd...

it MAY feel like a way....

here's what I wonder...

is it important to understand why...
or is it more important to see the small small insidious steps that lead to the affair...and affair proof...
with actions...

to me affair proofing in actions serves greater chance of decreasing a repeat occurance...

can we cling to past experiences as to why...and then not act in an affair proofing mode...

ARK

WAT,

I was going to suggest that we are "wired" in a sense that biologically speaking, we are driven toward perpetuation of the species.

Anyone who studies Smith's sociobiology theories will find this easy to accept as a reason for affairs.

WAT..
when should the root be sought...

soon in recovery or later...

who drives the seeking..

WS or BS....

honest to God I am not trying to be contrary..

I usually shy away from post where BS start going down past experiences...

here's one thing...

two siblings...
same parents
same social class
pretty much the same..

ones' perception good childhood
other's perception bad childhood..

see it all the time...

whose right
whose wrong...

how much credance does it get

ARK

I don't think I am wired to have an affair..

I am wired though to act in selfish ways...when I want and when I choose....

and an affair is the ultimate act of selfishness...and cruelity....

Ark

Yes, we are all wired to be selfish. That was necessary for our survival as individuals.

But thanks to free will most of us can overcome the natural tendency toward selfishness.

WAT,

I agree that as a "species" we are not naturally monogamous....so when Harley says "wired" thats what comes to my mind. We are all "vulnerable" but not all of us will give in to those vulnerabilities. The problem is that folks who are absolutely certain they won't cheat.....can sometimes get lax about their boundaries because they don't believe they need protection from their own vulnerabilities and don't create an environment that nurtures fidelity. We are all capable of "attraction" to other people besides our spouses....I don't think anyone would argue with that. We are all capable of being vulnerable to that attraction. We are not all going to ACT on that attraction....and the reasons for that are as important as the reasons some people do act.

I don't think there is an unimportant question when it comes to recovery after an affair. Finding the real reason for the A will be just as ark describes....peeling the onion of excuses....and it takes time....painful times. It begins after D-day....and the first layers peel off....but it takes a long time to get to the heart of the matter. Because it is a process that takes time....the sooner you begin....the sooner you'll get the real information you need to have real recovery.