Ask Me,

The final pain I had to deal with as an abuse victim was the role that my mother played. My mother...the one who was supposed to love above all others...and protect me....protected my abuser. It was a bigger hurdle, and more painful to overcome THAT dynamic than the sexual abuse. It was far more confusing. I could MORE easily understand how a man could be attracted to me sexually....than I could that a mother would fail to protect me.

When she discovered the truth....because I couldn't tell her (she was recovering from cancer)....she took us and left the house and we moved into a motel. In my mind....a huge burden had been lifted....because now it was out in the open....and now she would protect me. But I could hear who talking to him on the phone....and the second night....she called us (me 17, brother 15, sister 7) and said that daddy knew he was sick and that he was seeing a doctor....and she left it up to ME to decide if we went back. *I* got to decide if my family would stay together....if my mother would have a husband, my siblings...a father. What do you think I said? I can tell you how long I surpressed THAT victimization.

Moving back was he11....I wasn't allowed to be alone with him...ever!! Once, I got caught in the house when she returned....I was retrieving my school books so I could do my homework accross the street at a friends. And my mother was so incensed....she beat me and called a slut and wh*re. Her fear of losing him.....was more important than protecting me. Thank God I left for college a month later!!

Your wife is doing the SAME thing. She keeps trying to normalize this situation so SHE can have a relationship with her father....and in the process she's traumatizing your child. It's not hard to understand why your daughter is falling apart under these circumstances. Her secrecy victimized her child, her continued contact victimized her child, the denial of your inlaws, the lack of charges...the continued secrecy....it all protects the abuser and keeps your child sick.

I want to cry right now Askme! No...I want to scream!!

I finally did get the chance to sort this out with my mother....whom I loved deeply....right before she died. I hope your daughter doesn't need to wait that long.

I believe this, ASKME. I have no doubt. I did not mean to imply otherwise. I understand the complexities of these types of situations. I think, for people on the outside looking in -- especially for those who have no direct experience with incest -- it all appears simple... It's easy to say what SHOULD HAVE been done... or what should be done now. But when you're in the middle of a mess like this, it's far more difficult and complex. I get that.

At the same time, I think your daughter has been getting some mixed messages. And that is why I said it's time to take some BOLD moves to clarify things once and for all.


The problem with that is -- she was (and still is) a child... a child who blamed/blames herself and feels ashamed of what happened. At the time of my abuse, the LAST thing in the world I wanted was for anyone else to know my shameful secret -- but how much better it would have been if they did know... and if I had learned THEN that I had no reason to be ashamed of myself. Even now, your daughter needs that type of validation. It's certanly not too late.

As I said, I can sympathize with your wife. But, to put it bluntly, I think she was wrong.


Hmmmm. Can't say I "get" that... but I imagine it's pretty complex.


Victims of sexual abuse -- especially incest -- rarely do want their abusers to go to jail. Especially if they were as nice (read that MANIPULATIVE) as your FIL. I agree that it's probably not helpful to try to force a victim to press charges. So perhaps your hands were tied here... But frankly, the man belongs behind bars.


Unfortunately, that wasn't really possible, was it? He was -- and obviously still is -- too sick to keep seeing here wouthout further victimizing her. I think the fact that you all tried to make it work out that way is what sent the mixed messages I mentioned at the top of this post. Here is the CLEAR message I think she needs instead:

"Grandaddy is sick. What he did to you was wrong. It's all his fault. You didn't know any better because you were a child, and he manipulated you into going along with it. He did that by doing nice things for you and with you. And I know you'll miss the good stuff. But guess what, he's not capable of doing the good stuff without also doing the bad stuff. So we're cutting him out of our lives. He's just a bad dude. On the other hand, you my precious daughter, are a beautiful, loveable, worthy human being. And you deserve to be surrounded by people who will treat you with love, and kindness, and respect -- and expect absolutely nothing in return. And from this day forward... I'm going to do everthing in my power to make that happen... come he!! or high water."


NOT her responsibility to worry about his one. And she never should have been allowed to take that on her shoulders.



One question, ASKME -- Will your family offer the kind of support that's needed here?

--SC

P.S. It's kinda funny. I'm sitting here typing all this stuff... shedding a few tears... and laughing AT MYSELF all at the same time. It's so much easier to say all of this stuff about some other victime of SA... all the while, not being able extend the same level of kindness, compassion, and forgiveness to myself. When I first shared my CSA story on this board... and refered to myself as "damaged goods"... Pepperband told me to stop and reframe, and asked me if I would refer to some other little girl who was abused that way. I knew she was right, but I couldn't really internalize it, if you know what I mean. Writing to you this way is helping me do that some. So... thank you for sharing your struggle. Trying to help you... is helping ME.

Askme
I am very sorry for the pain your family has endured especially your daughter. It sounds like you guys have gotten professional help and are following their advice. We can offer suggestions but please weigh them carefully. It sounds like your daughter has been shattered by this.

Here are just some of my thoughts
Yes your daughter when she was little still wanted to see grandpa. No matter what he did to her a little girl still wants to be loved by her grandpa. That's sometimes why girls don't say anything to anyone because even though they don't like and don't want whats going on they do want to be loved. And it also sounds like even if your wife did not say anything to your daughter, your wife wanted to continue contact with her parents and not rock the family boat. So if your daughter who's instincts were probably high at this point felt that if she did anything or said anything about not wanting to see grandpa that it would then hurt your wife.

Sometimes sexual abuse victims want to protect their parents from the pain. Therefor they put aside their own pain and thoughts and feelings in order to protect others. They feel its their fault that the family is in so much turmoil because of them and they want to do anything to stop it.

Yes your daughter is very strong, it sounds like she has had to be strong for everyone else, that she wasn't receiving strength from the ones who should have been giving it to her. That she had to be the emotionally strong one and therefor not really deal with her own issues and feelings.

As a little girl we sometimes need our dads or moms to stand up and say we know you want this but we feel that this is the better plan. We want someone to make that choice for us. There were other times you said no you can't do that, this should have been one of those times. However you guys didn't make that choice at that time, so the time is now to stand up for your daughter. To get her the positive support she needs from loved ones. To make it very clear to your family that any rumors, or discussions with other people about this cannot happen. Because imagine now stepping back into those social circles and hearing rumors about what happened to her. You have to protect her at all costs. She has been victimized since she was 4 and it hasn't stopped at age 20. She was continueing to be victimized after everyone found out. Cause I would just bet you that your fil found ways to make sexual suggestions to her, or look at her, or say something or do something even standing in the same room with you. Alls he would have to do is to make some type of motion that she would understand but that you wouldn't.

As far as your wife goes I am very sorry for what she has also been through. However she is the adult, she needs to step forward and do what is best for your daughter at this time. It is inconceivable to believe that anyone in our families could do such horrendous things to a child, and the trauma the child has to live with for a lifetime. The guilt the child lives with, until they can at sometime process it all and realize no it was not them. Sometimes people never get to that point.

Your in-laws are not willing to even admit to anything. How incredible, and you guys want to keep these people in your lives because why? They continue to blame a four year old, for something that he did and soley belongs on both of them. It sounds like these people have not had to deal with the consequences of their behavior while all these years your daughter has. They have been able to continue living their lives while your daughter has been living in prison and being tortured with everything. If he had truly repented it would be one thing but it sound like he never was truly sorry. They need to realize the consequences of their actions through whatever means you and your daughter decide. Whether is legal, or leaving him to God to deal with. However I think the decision should be made that your daughter no longer have contact with either one of them. You couldn't protect her when she was four but you can step up and protect her now.

Do not allow the abuse to continue through any means. Because I bet you that if your daughter has memories of what happened that everytime she sees this man, or his wife, or hears his name, or goes anywhere where there is a memory of him or something he does that she has flashbacks and memories of what happened whether she wants to or not.

Only you guys can decide what to do.
My prayers for you all

I had a good talk with my mother who was very supportive. I told her the problems we have been through. I even told her about my sexual addiction problems. As I said, my problems existed before anything my father-in-law did, but the stress created from this mess and no one to turn to and me not understanding my problem caused my addiction to run rampant. I'm glad I understand all the pieces now and can help others at my church. And it was hard telling my mom, but it felt like a weight coming off of my shoulders.

Unfortunately my wife did not feel the same way what I did and thinks I did it all as an act of revenge against her and her parents and is now threatening me with divorce. She doesn't want to participate in counseling any more and wants to take our daughter out as well. Hopefully she is just angry right now and will cool down.

ASKME,

You absolutely did the right thing! I'm so sorry about the backlash from your wife. It's hard to understand her reaction, but I know she's been through a lot of turmoil, too. I imagine all the abuse and heartache she has endured has warped her perspective quite a bit. Maybe, as you say, she'll come around... but even if she doesn't, you still did the right thing.

I sincerely hope you'll take the next step now... and cut your inlaws completely out of your daughter's life. For all the reasons bjs and starfish so clearly explained... I too believe that's the only way your daughter will heal.

Take good care, ASKME.

--SC

The good part was my daughter did not mind me telling my mother. And she seemed to appreciate that she cared and loved her. I'm sure deep down that helps my daughter know that someone believes in her.

and I think SmartCookie is right ... go legal ... even if it means you stand up ALONE to this evil ... stand up to it you must!

Contact the law ... ask about filing a complaint ...

your wife can be left behind if she is too much of a coward ... this evil must end!

Pep

For your FIL.

Rope

Shovel

Lime


Gramps "went away" to Iraq.

sidebar:to SmartCookie



YOU are NOT allowed to kick your own [censored] ... that is MY job hunny !

LOL

Hey I said go legal first. It was my idea why no credit for me pep. LOL

Just kidding.

Ask you have started down the road of doing the right thing. Your Daughter is the most important person in this thing. Not you, your W, your IL's or anyone else.

The question I would ask all involved is this. If your daugheter was in day care or being watched by a non relative what would you do?

Just because it was a family member that did this it should not make a difference. IMHO it makes it worse for all involved because of the trust that has been broken.

The justice system does not have stipulations on how these predators are dealt with in regards to family. A predator is a predator period end of story.

Your poor daughter is now wondering if people you love should be allowed to hurt you. Or worse yet if there is something wrong with her. Think about the ramifications of that in her future. Chances are she will enter into abusive relationships. She will accept this treatment because what recorse does she have. She probably deserves it, is what she will be thinking. Nothing was done to her grandfather what good would it do to make a stink about it. Nothing will happen anyway.

As far as your W this is not about her. It is about your daughter. In most cases people just want it to go away. They never want to talk about it. It would be embarassing etc. But just because they do not talk about it doesn't mean it isn't eating them up inside.

If your W wants a D because you want to stand by your daughter then so be it. I am not trying to be harsh but if that happened to my kids and my FWW wanted a D because I wanted to punish the person that did this to them I could certainly live with myself.

If my father or mother did this to my kids they would be sitting in jail and I would be at every parole hearing trying to make sure they stay there!!!!

I agree with Hurtingless

go f'ing legal

LOL

Well I have gone f'ing everything else because of what happened, I might as well go legal.

because it is the moral thing to do !!!!!!!!!

So glad to hear this part, ASKME! I think it's big, big, big! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

HL makes such a good point about the likelihood that your daughter will get herself into abusive relationships. When someone is sexually abused -- especially by a trusted family member of friend -- the distinction between love and abuse gets blurred. The fact that your daugther still sees your FIL and tries to have a somewhat "normal" relationship with him... and the fact that your wife pushes for this... just makes the water that much muddier. Your own words support this:



Sounds EXACTLY like what a woman suffering from battered women's syndrome would say.

Is any of this -- all of these pleas to cut your IL's out of your lives and initiate legal action -- resonnating with you, ASKME???

--SC

(hi Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />)

up yours cookie <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

LOL

SC I under all of those points. I actually teach them to others and its why I get so angry. I know why people fall into abusive relationships and it's why I'm so watchful over my daughter. I'm the the cautious parent who is working so hard to protect, but having a hard time fighting the battle when I have had no one on my side. Even the counselors at the time weren't with me. But I feel like I have done everything to make things right and no one has stepped up to do the right thing. And I'm not out for revenge, I'm just out to help my daughter. And I want her to get the love, support and help she needs. She doesn't need people who aren't willing to support her in her battle.

[color:"red"]EGG ZAK LEE [/color]

Gotcha. It's pretty darn hard being the lone warrior... especailly when you have your own inner demons to fight at the same time.

Now you're healthier and stronger. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

And you've got your mother on your side. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Anyone else you can think of who might be willing to join your army? 'Cause I say it's time to start recruiting! I think that would send a powerful message to your daughter -- an army willing to rise-up on her behalf and fight for her!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

And if your wife wants to become a deserter over this... I guess that's her choice. I don't mean to sound calous about that, ASKME. Maybe I'm getting a little carried away with the army/battle analogy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I know your wife stood by you through a lot. Do you feel indebted to her for that? I can understand if you do... but ya know what?...

You have the opportunity -- right now -- to break the cycle of abuse and dysfunction in your family tree and your wife's family tree.

You were abused. Your wife was abused. Chances are, the abuse goes back for generations.

Maybe it can STOP at your children.

That... to me... is bigger than your marriage. (Esay for me to say, I know. What do you think?)

--SC

Pep... Ooooooh! That tickled!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh, my wife has started calling and canceling all my daughters counseling appointments. So I just called back and said I would bring in her in and not to cancel them. Fortunately my boss is understanding and will work with me.

I'm sorry your wife is acting and reacting this way. I'm glad it's not affecting your resolve to do the right thing for our daughter.

--SC

OOPS! I meant... YOUR daughter. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> LOL