Well the oldest realizes she is crazy. He is not getting along with her from what FWW says. The youngest is clueless. LOL. He is only 6 so maybe they relate really well. They may both be on the same level.

I don't think I am sending her back until the end of summer unless my FWW begs me too. You made this mess I am not spending more money to clean it up. This was supposed to be cheap child care.

When we discussed it I told her it wasn't saving us money because we are paying for the tickets and then giving her spending money. If she stayed for 2 months it was really a break even. Now it is going to cost me more.

Another great decesion on FWW's part. LOL. I love it. You asked for it I let you have it and now you are being negatively affected by it. I wonder what it would have been like if we moved to NY expecting her mom to help us. LOL.

You got a point there! yeah, I would hold true to the whole summer thing with the money thing behind it!

It is what she's been waiting on!

It sure is. She has called twice today and I haven't answered. We have a rule no voicemail because I hate using my minutes checking the voicemail just to hear her tell me what she already left on the voicemail when I call back.

I am not calling back and she is going home to see mom.

Some good mother daughter bonding time. Kids are at a pool party until like 4-5 that will give them a good 2 hours with each other.

Hope she makes the best of it. After all we were supposed to move 3000 miles away so her mom could be a part of our lives. LOL.

I guess her mom is ok in small doses. Say 2 days every three years. I am sorry but this is hilarious to me.

Hurting less you better not change your name back to years of hurt. LOL

I feel for you this is not an easy thing for any of us, but you are everywhere. Thinking about one thing and then something else and then...

I know I do the same things, but you need a plan. A program to work through.

I think you should leave kids with MIL as she seems to do better when she is not in your conversations. Take you wife out to some restaurant where you can talk without AO. Then tell her everything about what you have been posting here. Preface it with the thought that you want to tell her something and you want to to think about it before she responds. Tell her that you don't want a D, but feel that there need to be some steps to move you forward and soon. Tell her your limits:

here are mine:

1. Must tell me eveything all the time without grouchyness.

2. Continue to work on a program to fix our marriage.

3. Commit to the marriage builders agreement to meet ENs and disregard LBs

I bought 5 steps to romamntic love- workbook and am working through it with my H.

Say by following this, I think that we can have a stronger marriage . Explain that you want to love her and give her everything she needs. Ask her if she can commit to your marriage?

Her response will show you what you need to do.


"Guess what last night she said I was never going to forgive her and she knew it. "- my H always does this! DJ!

good luck. I am off to resentfully make H's b-day and father's day presents after a week of LBs from H. I think it because he is working overtime and we have had 0 time together! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

good luck!

(((((((((((hurting less))))))))

I can see that it amuses you! It would me too!

MIL doesn't wear the foil around the kids does she! LOL

CFC,

I am fine with me. I am going to change it to no_more_tears but jonhson and johnson have that trademarked. LOL.

To be completely honest I love her but in all fairness to her I don't know if I will ever forgive her for the damage the dishonesty caused. If I don't think I will then I should move on. This is on top of the A and other problems we had before the A. I really don't know if I have it in me. My plan is to figure that out before I decide anything.

If I think I can forgive her or move on or whatever then I will give it a shot. I think there is only so much someone can take. I am trying to figure out if it was too much. Only fair to her I think. See even when I am considering a D I am thinking of her feelings.

Right now I like the 180 plan. I think I have always been too quick to play happy couple even when I wasn't happy. So now I am not playing happy couple.

Needing,
Not yet she hasn't but she says some off the wall stuff. A dead silence falls over everyone. LOL. I might start encouraging it. LOL. So I saw some lights outside the window last night I wonder what they were. LOL.

This could be fun.

I will keep you posted on this one.

OH, yeah! You are something else! You can make it a game with the kids! LOL I hope that you have a great Father's day!

I understand the playing happy couple, all of our friends were shocked when they discovered H did what he did and that we had been having trouble. No one saw it coming, I'd hear things like "I hope ya'll don't break up, ya'll look so good together!" "I never knew you guys were having trouble, ya'll always looked so happy together!" That in itself made me sick in the days after D-day!

Well, have a great day!

Weekend update

So saturday I took 8 kids to an amusement park for my son's birthday. I was the coolest dad according to all of the kids. The moms elected me father of the year. The kids were having such a good time I actually extended the stay. We were supposed to leave at 4pm and ended up staying until almost 8pn. The moms could not believe it. Told FWW how great I was. One actually called the next day because of how much her son raved about the party and how cool I was. God it felt great bonding with my son and giving him such a great birthday.

On the M front things are getting better for me everyday. MIL is actually leaving on saturday. Really putting us in a bind for day care. I asked FWW to make backup plans just in case and she of course didn't. LOL. Now I have left it to her to figure it out.

Guess what MIL is PA as well and now FWW sees herself in MIL. The 180 is working. For example she usually tries to get me to beg her to come to family funcitons during times like this. She told me she wasn't coming on fathers day. I said ok. She was supposed to hang out with MIL and MIL didn't want to hang out with FWW. FWW kept asking if I wanted her to come and I said if you want to come sure. She kept saying well I want to know from you that you want me there. I told her she is my W why wouldn't I want her too. When I came back in she announced she was coming. LOL.

She kept pressing me to "talk" and I politely declined having superficial conversations with her. She kept asking if I have made up my mind about going to MC and I said not yet.

She said I was a liar to because I "acted" like I loved her only to get mad at her later. I said well I am sorry you feel that way. I said I was trying to create an environment of love for you. I wasn't acting. You chose to keep up the dishonesty which continued to create problems. She again said she wasn't sure she wanted to continue because of the fights and the LBing I did. I said fine then maybe we should call it quits.

I said if you want to say you have had it so bad because we fought then so be it. If you want to be the victim go ahead. If you want to subtract the fights we had over things that were reactions to your wrong doing then you will see we didn't fight that much. You would have been mad at me for x,y, and z but when I get mad you are the victim. Fine I have no problem with that. Your decesion. I agree with you I was a bad husband for doing that.

She kept trying to focus on me being a big meany I agreed. Then I said but then again I don't know how I should act in those situations. Are you saying I was wrong for getting mad at you for X? Because when I did X you got mad.

I said this is exactly why I can't come to an answer about our future. I told you expect me to react in a situation exactly how you would. If you do not like the reaction then either don't do it or don't react that way when I do it. Don't yell at me for walking in the door a half an hour late without a call then get mad at me for getting mad at you for the same thing.

Wow she had nothing to say.

Now she sees MIL is PA. She wanted to hang out with MIL and MIL said no thanks. We got home MIL was complaining that she didn't have anything to do all day. LOL. FWW tried to reason with her. Mom you said you didn't want to hang out today. I know but I was lonely. But mom I said I would do anything you wanted. Well I just didn't have anything to do I was really bored all by myself. LOL.

I have been smiling all weekend.

So, internet was acting crazy and I could not get to the forums!

Way to GO DAD! I think your whole weekend was really cool! MIL, B-day party, FWW, it was all so beautiful! You should have invited MIL over years ago! Maybe she should come live with you guys! LOL Suggest that to the W, or maybe on the Holidays (Easter and Christmas)? Oh, what torture! LMAO

It sounds like FWW was willing to listen. Can you pinpoint what's changing her attitude or is this a cycle?

I wish you some rapid change for all the heartache you've had to endure! I didn't see you joke about "everything of the M is getting better day by day." I have to assume you were being serious and not a [email]smart@ss![/email] LOL

I would like to know what little changes you are seeing in your wife, in you, your interaction with each other?

Congrats on the great weekend again! I still can't believe you are sending MIL back so soon! What changed your mind? Too soft-hearted, or did you forget to pick your foil on this weekend and the aliens got to you? LMAO

I mean exactly that they are getting better for me.
I now can see the forest through the trees. I have always questioned whether moving back to NY was really a good idea.
My FWW put so much emphasis on her family including MIL. Now it is becoming clear to me that I made the best decesion for my ENTIRE family.

I always felt like if I would have moved back none of this would have happened. Now her family is proving out exactly what I have been saying all along.

New information came out. Her brother and sister knew her mom was going to do this and didn't say anything. They let us fly her out here knowing it wouldn't work out. Her brother actually told MIL "lets see how long you can last with them" Nice guy.

So now I am at peace with myself for making the right decesion.

The decesion to go back was made without my input. Ticket was bought before I knew it happened. No POJA on that one.

Right now I still am undecided on whether or not I am going to cousiling or getting a D. I have told FWW that too. No games radical honesty.

I am not in the least bit interested in keeping up this cycle with her.

MIL is making everyone crazy. I am being the nice guy about it. She complimented my FWW the other day but has been really critical. MIL told FWW that suntan lotion is poison and we should use the all natural stuff. My FWW came in to complain and I said, "listen we talked about this and we agreed before we bought the ticket that your mom was doing us a favor and you would overlook any of the things she does" Then I said you are just focusing on the negatives what about when she said you were a good mom. She got mad at me for not taking her side. I said you have told me it is ok for you to talk about your family but not me so I am not. LOL drove FWW crazy.

She was trying to initiate some SF last night and I ignored it.

I think she is now in the limbo she has left me in and doesn't like it.

We will see. There has been a lot of damage done and I need to decide if I can really treat her fairly. If I can't forgive or whatever we want to call it then I need to call it a day. It is the best thing for all involved.

Today she started complaining again and I told her I was going to get upset. She said why. I said 3-4 weeks ago you got mad at me because my mom could come see our son's performance and it wasn't fair because your mom couldn't. It is apparant our son wouldn't feel comfortable with her being there. You wouldn't either. You really took it to me for that. Do you want to continue to complain and open up a can of worms you don't want to discuss.

Told her I am not her sounding board. Gets better by the day. I want MIL to stay around forever.

FWW's family explains half the battle you're fighting! LOL Doesn't seem like they know how to follow though! They've lost before they even get started! Seems like FWW has learned this behavior, may start to be recognizing it, but may not know how to change it! You mentioned that she always speaks negativitily about the M, saying you're going to leave her. It about the perspective and the willingness to get what you truely want. SHe apparently sees herself as a failure to begin with!

I'm glad that it's getting better! I hope you come to terms with what you need to move foward. It sounds to me that even with you doing 180, you are still treating her fairly. I don't see you being mean, I don't see that in your personality!

DId FWW say anything in regard to POJA? I mean you are doing 180 and she may have felt that you didn't care and the rules didn't apply. You have in essences turn your back, in a way, to the rules to a good M. Is this something she would have done before 180? Are do the two of you usually make financiall decision, aside from the shopping spree she went on, together?

I did it again. I lost a post. I hate that. Now I only have enough time for a small post. Basically here is what the others said:

Wow and I was worried about you this weekend. I guess that was not needed. I am glad that you are doing 180. It seems to be working. I am glad you wife is not cake eating as you have no cake left to serve her. LOL. Keep up the 180 until your wife is in a position to be reasonable all of the time. Let her know your limits. what are they? do they include MC? Mine need to be modified to fit this, but I can't seem to find a good MC. beside the point. You have been working on this for sooooo long, I think a little more work and you wll see some change. 6 months after I started MB princlples I am just starting to see the change. needing comfort , you and I all began here at the same time roughly.

NC what is situation like at home now?

I got to go will check in tomorrow. I have kids that need me right now.

Yes her family is much more then half of the battle. When we were discussing moving back to NY they were egging her on about moving back. Never in our 12 years together have they really been there for us. They told her I was a bad husband for not wanting to move back.

Yesterday I told her if she kept bringing up how horrible her mom being there was I was going to blow up at MIL. I said your family already thinks I am a piece of crap. She said at this point she does not care what her family thinks about me anymore. HMMM.

As far as POJA goes no she has not said anything. I have told her that we need it she thinks we do already. LOL. I said how do we have it. She said I always ask you and I said yes you do but if I do not agree then we have problems or you just do what you want anyway. I have to weigh the issue before I just give in. If it is not that big of a deal I just go with it easier then having a whole bunch of discussions then you doing it anyway.

No the financial decesions were based on the above principal. How much is it and how much grief do I want if I say no. LOL. I made the decesions on how to pay the bills she made the decesion on how to spend what was left. I guess thats together.

As far as turning my back on the rules of a good M. I agree. If I do not stick with the 180 and wait to decide then I will just start the same cycle.

I need clarity right now to make my decesion. I might go on a month to month and see how I feel. I really don't know right now. She has been giving me a lot of reasons not to be here. I am trying to see if I can live a happy life with her.

I am treating her well just not as well as she is used too. Maybe she is starting to see how good she has had it. I don't know.

Hi, sorry, it's been a gloomy day here and my feelings are running the same course, well, was. I'm feeling better over having gotten out of the office for a little while.

I hope that FWW is seeing that the decision to move to Ny wasn't a great idea too. I sincerely hope that this clears up some issues between the two of you! I also find that your decision to do 180 is working for you! I hope that you are doing well. It appears that FWW is doing well with it too. I hope that she gets a little clarity in her life as well as you!

I have to say that I'm pulling for you and your FWW to save the M. Of course, as anyone else, want the best for you but I can also understand all the anguish that you have been though.

I think that she needs to be reminded that the M can only work if both parties want it to, but I wouldn't state your position just yet. I would let her ponder the situation at hand, and mention that she also need to do some self-examination, and decision making! You don't even have to talk to her, write her a note, that way she can reread it as many times as she needs too.

Well, I check in later. We're suppose to go to the movies tonight, we will see!

I don't think even if she did realize that moving back to NY was a bad idea that she would admit to that. I brought it up the other day and it went nowhere.

She kept harping on her mom and I said you know this has been how it has been since I met you. You kept telling me it would be different if we moved back. I kept assuming not that your mom got worse or better just that she stayed the same. If that was true your argument that things would be different was not valid.

I brought up the fact that less then a month and a half ago she laid into me for her mom not being a part of the kids lives. She didn't even appologize for that.

I really am trying to do the right thing here. Her moms trip has actually hurt our M. I honestly wish her mom had changed so I was wrong. That way I could take some ownership of the state of our M because of the decesion not to move back to NY.

Now I know I made the right decesion in not moving back. My wife had a meeting last night so it was just the guys and MIL at home. We went to the pool to get away from MIL. My oldest said "I am really glad we never moved back to NY". I asked him if he really wanted to move back. He said not really but now that I know how this grandma is I am glad I have your Mom.

So to recap the NY thing the only one it "might" have been good for is FWW who used that against me for 3 years then had an A because I didn't move back. Thats what this whole thing boils down to.

Now I am trying to do the right thing by her. I have to decide if I will ever be able to treat her right based on all of this.

The thousands of discussions about moving back. The A. The things she did after the A etc.

If I don't think I can then she needs to be set free.
I love her but I don't know if that will be enough.

I also have to be realistic about what she is going to be willing to do. So far it has been forget about the past except for the good things. I am not even allowed to talk about things after the A happened. IE the flirting or the spending or the momentos she refused to get rid of from that trip.

Now that I look back about the things that have happened I do not think I would have acted the same way and her dishonesty actually helped her.

Today is our anniversary and I am not celebrating it.

Thanks for checking up. I hope you have a good day. I posted to you

I would like to kno also. Married 15 years with two kids 6 & 9. I know plan A will not work because she has told me she wants to play around. SHe says she won't do it without my approval but I recorder cell conversations that were definitely over the line, very sexual and suggestive and with two different men. If I Plan A she will love the attention. I can't move out the only option is for her to move. I suggested 6 months for her to "get it out of her system" ad then we'll see how we feel. Of course she didn't agree to that. What can I do? I really want proof so I can end it.
Frustrated!!!

Ulysees-first you need to go back to your orginial post and ask these questions there. I will bump the post for you! MCD was looking for you a few days ago. Keep all of your information there, it's easier to help you out if you do this. You have people who want to help you!

Hurting-
Well, I guess since you're not celebrating I don't have to wish you the best today! LOL However, I do! Congrads on putting up with the BS for years! HURRAY! LOL

All the drama! Are you a lawyer? You sure can convey your thoughts with sure ease! It's either a lawyer or Mr. Philosophy professor from college!(A+B=C)and (B+C=A)but does (A+C=B) I can pull my hair out just thinking about that class! I'm still not sure if I liked him or not! He was tough, but I liked the hard teachers! I know crazy!

What I look forward to seeing is what's going to happen after MIL leaves? Foil reappears in the kitchen!LOL No, seriously without the added stress!

Well, I'll see what's up with you tomorrow, need to get to bed! Take care!

I am not a lawyer. I was actually pre law in college but when FWW got pregnant I put that on hold. Been on hold for 12 years now. LOL.

You know she used to tell me she wishes she never moved here with me. Finally one day I broke down and told her that she always looked at how great her life would be without me. I said you know when I met you I was on the deans list working two jobs and 2 semesters away from law school. That all changed when I met you. Maybe I should act like you and start resenting you because I had to give up my dream. Sounds fair to me. LOL. I now resent you for not being a lawyer. I went through the whole imaginary scenario about living in Malibu, Lead attorney on a big case, driving a nice sports car wow that sounded great. What did I get. Her. Sounds like people make sacrafices sometimes because they love someone. I guess if you resent the sacrafices then you shouldn't be married. I don't resent mine but I guess I should.

We will see when MIL leaves what is going to happen. I am in full 180 mode. She is trying the same old things to get back into my good graces. Which is trying to talk about day to day stuff. She talked for about 2 hours yesterday and I said a total of about 30 words. She also asks me to put lotion on her back. Now I put it on like a doctor does. I can't have SF because if I do I am using her. So I guess I won't.

Last night after listening for another hour about her mom. I asked her to reevaluate her position about moving back to NY. She said thanks for kicking me when I am down. I knew this was going to happen. I said I am sorry that this affects my feelings to. I guess I should have just listened some more and kept my mouth shut. Again I am sorry. Left the bedroom. Guess what the women that can always sleep must have had something on her mind because she couldn't. Came out and appologized. Blanket appology no specifics about what she was sorry about but it is better then getting yelled at for expressing my feelings.

We shall see. I love the 180.

Well, it's working for you, so you keep up the good work! You do seem happier these days!

OMG, that is so funny! Pre-Law. I think you would have made a great one! Your college experience sounds like mine! I works two jobs during school and three during the summer at one point. I was in pre-med, changed to sociology, want to get my Master's and PH.D but I met H and that was it. Life changed, at least we agreed to no kids until I graduated!
So, my dream was "I don't care if I'm 80, i will get my PH.D!" Now, it's "Hope I can get my Master's before I died!" LOL I got two kids to get through college now! LOL

Well I am happier these days.

It is the clarity knowing that our M was good before the A. It is the clarity knowing that moving back to NY would have been only good for her IF everything she said would happen did happen. So far the MIL thing has proven she may have been wrong about that.(understatement)

I know that my FWW chose the path to this A. She set the wheels in motion by holding NY as the one and only thing I could do to make her happy. I did plenty of things that should have made her more then happy. She chose to disregard all of those things because I didn't move back to NY. I feel great I didn't withdraw from her and have an A. I kept trying to be a good husband filling every need except that one perceived need.

I am ok with the fact that not moving back has caused me great harm but I protected my children from the consequences of moving back. Could you imagine if MIL was the only one we could leave them with if we wanted to get away.

I thought about going back to school but because I wanted to fill my wifes need to be a SAHM it was nearly impossible. She requires a lot of attention always has and I didn't want to cause problems by not being there to give it to her.

So I am at peace with myself. Maybe not the M but with myself.

I know I did what was best for MY family which is the kids, her and I. She on the other hand was just thinking of herself. If she would have put as much energy into seeing what was right there in front of her, as she did ignoring her familys faults things would have been great.