Kinger, bigkahuna didn't attack you personally. He asked why you were here, since (based on what I've read on your other thread) you weren't in a marriage affected by infedility.

You're asking a lot of questions (and implying a lot of assumptions, IMO) without giving us any idea where you are coming from.

If you're conducting research, then say so. If you're in a marriage affected by infedility, then say so. If you have friends affected by infedility, then say so.

You might find a lot more people willing to share their ideas, experience, and insight if you give us some idea what it is you're looking for...

I was reading a few of kinger's posts. What I infer is that kinger is a BH who kicked his wife out. Wife now wants to come back and kinger is looking for a good reason to let her back. His obstacles are:

1) He cannot forgive her
2) She is basically evil or never would have had an affair
3) She wants back because she has no other choice
4) He sees no chance of recovery

but:

5) He has doubts about all these conclusions and wants to see some solid reason why he should give it another go. He wants to see one glimmer of hope. Why? Because he really does want her back and wants her to love him.

That is what I would infer.

"Why don't you take your wank tank somewhere else?" is what bigkahuna wrote.

I guess I took that as an attacking statement. I apologize if it is not.

I stumbled across this forum while researching, but I became interested in this site for personal reasons. Trust me, I am not here, posting, etc. for any structured educational purposes.

I am here for personal reasons.

So far I think of a recovered marriage as being like sasquach. A lot of people have heard of it but nobody has ever really seen it.

So if I see someone who claims to believe in sasquach, I could take two approachs to satisfy my curiosity:

1) Get to know that person and talk about their experience. Ask to see photos or evidence to prove their contention that they actually saw sasquach, etc.

or

2) I could get confrontational and call that person a fool and an idiot for believing in sasquach all the while really hoping that this person would get mad at me and want to defend himself by pulling out an 8x10 glossy photo of the beast as rock solid proof that he really did exist.

Either approach might accomplish my goal. If I am personally angry for having spent the last six months of my life searching for sasquach and spent all my savings on the endeavor, I might tend toward option 2. But that is just me. It wouldn't be intended as a personal attack. It would be me talking through my anger.

BTW I am not saying sasquach doesn't exist. I think Dorry, for example, is a sasquach. I have just never actually seen her so she is only anecdotal evidence to me. There are other sasquaches here too according to their sig lines.

I'm a sasquach!...um...er...if I read that right at least!

When I found out about my H's A, I asked him to leave. He did.

He came back for practical reasons, but stayed for emotional ones.

Our marriage isn't perfect today...but I do consider us as having 'overcome' the A.

Recovery is a work in progress...it never stops entirely.

I think that is great Banyak. Getting over the A cannot be easy I don't think. It is far easier to go your separate ways and try to put it behind you. I think WS's don't leave the relationship for good reasons. They may not come back for good reasons. But, if they stay, it will be for the right reason eventually. That is what recovery is about I hope.

I am glad you are a sasquach. That makes me very happy. I am glad to know there are sasquaches out there. If I didn't believe that they might exist, I wouldn't spend any time on MB.

Hope to see you in the National Enquirer next time I am at the Walmart checkout line!

Simple? - Yes

Easy? - Not on your life!

It does get easier as time goes by though.

Hang in there...you may mutate into a sasquach before you know it.

If I make the front page of NE...you'll know - I'll be the hairy one with SAA & HN-HN under my arm. (LOL)

Kinger, - you really need to ask questions about your specific situation and tell us a bit about yourself rather than theoretical ramblings if you want help and want to be taken seriously.

Kinger, reasons and explanations help to give us some understanding & insight in why people make certain choices (right or wrong) in life etc. Explanations and reasons are not the same as justifications, excuses, rationalizations etc. Justifications & rationalizations are excuses for an A and wrong. However, as I’ve said, explanations/reasons give us some understanding & insight in why things happened and why the FWS made the wrong & selfish choices in the first place (whether it was because of unfulfilled EN’s & problems in a M; selfishness; character flaws; lack of morals; reasons/ circumstances other than problems/issues within the M; personal weaknesses & vulnerabilities; failure of WS’s to protect themselves and keep boundaries up etc.)

Kinger, if a FWS never have the opportunity to understand (not justify of rationalize) why the A happened, then how on earth can the FWS seek some self-understanding & self-knowledge about their own weaknesses and vulnerabilities and how to take corrective & protective steps in future? Also, how can the BS and FWS then learn about personal weaknesses, vulnerabilities and unfulfilled EN's in the M and take corrective and protective steps to affair-proof the M and make the M stronger?

Post deleted by cheated_on

I'm guessing that Kinger had a girlfriend leave him at the high school prom. This has left him with a permanent distrust of women, which will forever hamper his ability to be a good psychologist.

Many folks enter the field of psychology to figure out their own demons. This looks like one of those. I'm guessing Kinger is going to manufacture a story to gather more information without having to invest of himself.

I'd suggest you get back to your business degree and get out there to sell vacuum cleaners to wives who you know will one day become cheaters.

Here, Kinger, try this one for size and see if it helps you or gives you some useful information for your situtation:

Forgive? Trust? Really? Has anything been learned in the past year?

ForeverHers,

I read your thread. That was very helpful and encouraging. Thanks for that! I hope Kinger also finds it insightful:)!

--Sarah

Hey everyone.

I don't think kinger belongs here.

You may not want to spend too much time answering his questions.

He is supposedly doing research on collective thinking.

Read his posts and you will see what I am talking about.

In most cases he actually is quite derogative towards men that try to get to recovery.

Agree HL. Kinger would do well to show more of himself. Others on this board spilling their insides might come first.

"imanotherones" first paragraph was as wrong as his second paragraph was correct.

I will never be a psychologist. My preliminary PhD studies are in Organization Culture and Change...sure, there is a bit of psychology involved...yep, I stumbled upon this page because someone told me that the creator put forth a thought line that some people follow to the point of self distruction. I figured it was worth my time.

I was with my wife for 7 years, married for 3. We did not have children.

I have thought about posting my story, but with the constant name calling, inferring that I am young and dont understand and other ignorant things people post. I have to admit, I am a bit gun shy. Plus, I am already divorced and I am not trying to work it out...so it really doesnt fit this forum, right?

Well, I still say keep reading and posting here. Ignore the folks that are calling you names.

You will probably have another relationship one day, and the stuff here will help.

Tip - imanotherone is a she.

Okay I'll call you a name too because I just feel like it:

You are a biased observer!

There. I feel better now.

But since you are studying "group think" and since you are continually posting in the opposite direction, there must be some method to this madness. Clearly this is what you are trying to evaluate. Personally I don't like the Kool-aid here either.

But let's call a spade a spade. What you are really saying is that MB is hogwash and yet Drs Harley have somehow sold all of us a bill of goods. Is that pretty much it? And your attacking MB and seeing how the pack of dogs jumps on you reinforces group think? Just curious. Mob mentality has always fascinated me.

I say keep posting. Complain about the kool-aid all you want. That can only be healthy.

It does sound like you have some personal experience that precludes you from being unbiased on this issue though.

Also, I thought true observation was not to interfere with the experimental model? Aren't you, by your presence here, altering the experiment? How can you publish that?

I read the "foreverhers" link. It was very informative, intelligent, well written, well thoughtout and emotional.

To reveal more about myself. I grew up in a Protestant chuch. My grandma, who was my hero, was a Sunday Shchool teacher there. My Dad lead the morning services from time to time, was the church board president...we used to have the preachers over for Sunday lunch often, etc. Christian values are engrained in me. I firmly believe it is the best way to teach someone right from wrong. My #1 belief in life, which is highly religious by nature, is that everyting happens for a reason. I believe my strong conscious is a direct result of growing up in a Christian home. Matter of fact, I think my conscious is what makes it so hard for me to understand how people can cheat. I just could never live with myself for doing that.

I think that the post in question uses Christianity for the right reasons, which is rare these days. It seems as though people use Christianity to justify hating others, being judgemental of others behaviors, to justify hurting others and it makes me sick. Oh, I could go on and on. I just hope people know that what is in their minds and in their hearts means more than actions and words.

Do you have any idea how much anger comes through in your posts? Do you seek any kind of counseling? I mean your whole collection of posts. If MB can help you with any of your issues, keep posting dude.