Hey ASKME...

I need to "ask you" a quick question about checking the computer for porn.

Today, I did a little searching on our home computer using the methods you and hitchhiker discussed on Soonergirl's thread -- searching key words, and searching for all the index.dat files.

I didn't find anything. But that's what's kind of odd.

There were only about half a dozen index.dat files total... most very recent, relating to a new antispyware program my H installed.

When I search for key words... no matter what they are... I seem to get quite a few hits from 2, 3, 4 years back... but hardly anything recent.

Is it possible he's figured out a way to clean out the computer in such a way that it's impossible to trace his online activities?

When you do this type of search, does it look for all of the internet sites you visit, or just stuff you download?

How come there's practically no recent activity documented -- porn or otherwise?

I know the name of the site he was on the last time if found him using... but there's no record of it that I can find?

What do you think is up?

Thanks,
--SC

Ok, work arounds, it's possible to use another internet browser that hides some of the information. There are other browsers besides Internet Explorer, such as Fox Fire, Monzilla, Netscape and Opera. So see if any of those are installed. Also, if he is deleting the cookies and files, that is a clue. You should always have some cookies left in your cookie folder unless you are periodically deleting them. Under the Windows Internet Explorer you would click

Tools > Internet Options > Settings > View Files

and there in the folder you should see a bunch of files including the cookies. If you don't see anything, then he is clearing them to hide his tracks.

Also, there are these niffty little programs that are called "track erasers" that eliminate all the history, files, cookies, etc of any internet sites visited so there are no tracks left behind. The programs have names like track eraser, internet washer, internet cleaner, spy cleaner, etc.

For your own test, create a Word Document and save it somewhere. Then go click on START > SEARCH > ALL FILES AND FOLDERS and then put the word you used in the document in the space under "A word of phrase in the file" and press enter and let the search run to see if you find the document. If you do then you know the search works. Then try it for other words that you know have importance....and you know the kind of words I'm talking about.

Thanks ASKME,

Here's what I found/didn't find:

Other browsers: there's an icon for MSN Explorer but I can't get it up and running.

Cookies: There are quite a few of them dating back a few years up until today (most of the recent ones are from this site). Nothing that looks fishy (as in porn) though.

No "track erasers" that I can see.

Haven't done the "search test" yet, but the search function seems to work fine. I may do the test when I have a chance, just to make sure.

Of course, there's always the possibility that there's nothing to find -- which would be cool. But, here's the one thing that's still perplexing, though. I've found various cookies and files dating back to 2002. (Maybe even a few dating even farther back, not sure). But absolutely none of them -- from what I can tell -- are related to porn. Yet I know he was using heavily between 2000 and 2005 (and maybe even before that).

So... shouldn't there be SOMETHING there from all that previous use... unless he somehow selectively deleted it all? If so, coudln't he still be using and selectively deleting?

I know that after I found him using in 1999, he started deleting things out of the "history" but I was under the impression that that doesn't erase all traces of sites visited, right?

Sorry if these questions seem like... duh! My computer skills are obviously pretty limited.

Thanks again.

Hope you're doing okay.

Hugs to your daughter.

--SC

Maybe I missed soem other posts on this, but why can't you just put a key logger on the machine. I've seen them that take screen shots of everything?

I probably could, rprynne.

Problem is:

1. As I've said, I'm not very computer savy.

2. Laziness on my part.

3. (...and this is something I've been meaning to ask about) Our home computer has some pretty tough anti-virus/anti-spyware stuff on it. As I understand it, that can interfere with... or at the very least, detect... a keylogger. Is that true?

--SC

SC -

The anti-virus software should not detect a keylogger. The anti-spyware may. Some keyloggers have the ability to hide themselves from spyware removal tools, usually by changing the name of the executable (program).

There is also a nice little device you can buy call KeyCatcher that plugs onto the keyboard cord and captures anything typed in the computer. It's small and unless someone is in the habit of taking their computer apart won't notice it's there. It's about $49 for a 256K device. It's not software so it won't interfere with anything on the computer and you can unplug it anytime so no one will know it was ever there. I think the website is www.keycatcher.com if I remember right.....you may want to do a google search to make sure. It's great for the person who doesn't know much about computers.

Also you asked about the cookies, it does seem if you have old cookies present, the other old cookies should be there too. So it's possible he is doing selective deletes. BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT as the T-Shirt says. So, check the recycle bin in case he forgets to empty the trash.

SC - The one I used claims it is totally undetectable and it is sinch to use.

I think the website is www.spectorsoft.com

SC,

Selectively deleting history/cookies, etc is possible, but a bit time consuming if he was visiting frequently.

The spectorsoft software is undectable as long as your not looking for it. You would have to be pretty paranoid to search the registry, or frequently do spyware scans.

You do not need any real computer skills to run the software, just install, follow the instructions, and your in business. "I would recommend the software keylogger." It caught me, and I'm an IT.

The little device AskMe referred to will only log keystrokes. The software actually takes picture of screen shots in timed intervals that you determine, spectorsoft is good stuff.

More info for ya.... Spying101

Thanks guys,
Good info. ASKME, I did check the recycle bin. Nothing there. I think he's pretty smart about that sort of thing. Even with our joint email account... a couple of interesting things that I never would have noticed had my sensitivities not been raised: He has it set up so that none of the "sent" messages are saved in the "sent" file. And there's never ANYTHING in the "trash". Hmmmm. I'll have to check out the key catchter thing, and the spectorsoft key logger.

Thanks again.

By the way rprynne, it was good to see your latest update. Is MT still planning to move back home next month?

--SC

SC - That's MT's plan right now. I'm looking forward to it.

She started another thread if you want to give her a shout.

BTW - Can I ask the sitch on why your are searching your H's computer. I mean I get the general gist, but if he has agreed to not view such material on his PC, can't you just tell him your putting a key logger on his machine?

Smartcookie,

Why does the keylogger have to be undetectable? Your husband should be on board with YOU his wife being his best and most important accountability partner. Just the fact that it's there and password protected so only you have access should keep him honest and off the porn. If he won't submit to such scrutiny then you've got a problem without even having to detect a problem.

Sure he can seek out other porn opportunities but helping him shut down this one would be a step in the right direction. He's got an acknowledged problem. Either get rid of the computer or he must allow you the keylogger so you can protect yourself from his destructive behavior.

Just a thought.

Mr. Wondering

I can give a reason to snoop....and this is an unfortunate thing for sex addicts. Sex addicts look for ways around the system and snooping is sometimes the only way to find out if they are up to something.

And that is just an honest statement from someone who knows one from the inside out. I can be upfront, say monitor me, put on the filter, watch me with camcorder, and then walk outside with a pocketpc or a cell phone and connect to the internet. Now days even the cell phones have instant messaging built into them so that you can pay for text messaging, use AOL, YAHOO or ICQ on the cell phone, but then you can't tell who is being texted. If there is a way to get creative to hide their stuff, sex addicts will work on it, just like an alcoholic will find a place to put their bottle. I have found bottles in the back of toilets, shoe boxes, backs of cabinets, under furniture, just wherever they thought they could hide it.

AskME and Ms Cookie;

I do see both sides of the issue, however, isn't husband overcoming, working through and ceasing the addiction/addictive behaviors the goal? He should not be allowed to HAVE/OWN a pocket pc or sophisticated phone. If he has one on-line access to the bill should be in SM's name and he should leave it out and on the kitchen counter for SM's scrutiny. They should be honest with each other about the addiction and HE can be honest about how he anticipates trying to get around her scrutiny.

Besides the payoff of looking at on-line porn on a 17 inch computer screen at DSL speeds FAR outweighs the hand-held device AND most other ways SM's husband may seek out other fixes. He HAS demonstrated time and again that he is weak when given carte blanche, in his private little basement on his sophisticated computer...so why not shut THAT window of opportunity with his knowledge and consent.

I read up recently on cocaine addiction. Figured I find away to utilize the information in some post to a foggy one. One of the things I read discussed how drug addiction involves a substantial amount of contextual/environmental stimuli. For example, people are given strong drugs in hospitals, even for prolonged periods of time but go home and rarely ever become addicts. Illicit drugs users contextualize the how to get the drugs, the how to prepare the drugs, the how to take the drugs...all the "ritual" that goes into it...all of that IS part of the addiction. I imagine it is the same with sexual addiction.

This is why NO CONTACT is important after infidelity and this is why SC should CONSIDER helping her husband break off ...FOREVER...his ritualistic and preferred method of "access" to his addiction. Mr. Smart Cookie SHOULD/MUST want her help and understand it's necessity.

One last thought/question...If Mr. Cookie were an alcoholic would you set a bottle in front of him, in private, in his basement and merely "snoop" on the bottle every now and then. You'd need to test the contents to insure he didn't replace the alcohol with water and test to make sure it's the same bottle. Why not just padlock the bottle in a safe place that only SC has access too? Sure he can go out and sneak around...alcohol is everywhere....snoop on him a little there, but don't expect him to manage his addiction, tempt him with easy access and then, inevitably, slap him down when his addiction wins out.

I see both sides and am no expert on this addiction. Thus just consider it.

Mr. Wondering

ASKME -- Thanks for that.

rprynne & Mr. W -- I hear what you're saying, and I knew that question would come up. Here's the thing: The time to have done that -- install a keylogger with his knowledge -- would have been right after the last time I found him using in February. In fact, you suggested that I do it then Mr. W, and I didn't. I blew it. Now, four months later, I have no real evidence that he's using again, just one of those intuitive feelings I'm learning to listen to... so I worry about how he'll react if, out of the clear blue sky, I tell him I want to do this. You know what I mean?

And I'll admit to another aspect of this, knowing fully that I'll probably get some 2x4's for it...

You may remember that, back in December or January, he promised me that if he couldn't stop on his own he'd get help (ie professional counseling). Then, when I found him using again in February, he refused, saying he was too embarrassed. I know I can't fix this problem for him. Nor can I tell him how to go about fixing it himself. But I also know that very few people are able to kick this habit without help. Sooo... Part of me would rather CATCH him using again than PREVENT him from doing so.

I know that sounds horribly manipulative. I don't feel very good about it myself. (nor do I like snooping). But if I tell him I'm putting the key logger on... chances are... he won't use the computer to get his porn anymore, knowing that he'd be caught. But if he really wants to, he'll find other sources... And I'll have to snoop anyway (cable bills, cell phone records, etc).

So that's where my head is at, at the moment.

--SC

This is what I would say to the wife who is strong enough to handle it.

It's up to the addict to make the choices as to what they will do about their recovery, it's not up to the spouse. The addict should be choosing a safe path. They should be the ones considering a filter, or removing the computer. I have guys who will not install a computer in their home for that very reason. And if the addict does not choose safe paths, the spouse should always keep a watchful eye, not a plundering eye, but a watchful one, and if something looks suspicious check it out and be ready to confront if something is found. The spouse of an addict needs to either be strong enough to continue confrontation or have a plan about when is the right time to leave. Addicts have their good and bad parts. From some peoples perspective they may be able to handle the addict and others may not be able to. It depends upon the confidence and self assurance of the spouse. Some spouses lack the self confidence and self esteem in themselves to deal with an addict and in those cases leaving may be the only option.

Mr. W,

More very good points. I agree with what you're saying about getting all this stuff out in the open, creating accountability, and removing temptation.

Here's my problem...

I think he might be trying to "white knuckle" his way through this. As you said -- the goal is overcoming, WORKING THROUGH, and ceasing the addiction/addictive behaviors. But he doesn't want to talk about it with me (too ashamed). And I haven't seen much evidence of the "working through" part. He's not in counseling. No group support. He read one book on the topic -- or part of one book. And I even suspect that some of his other addictive behaviors (drinking & gambling) may have been ratcheted up a notch or two -- perhaps as a replacement for the porn???

So that's my dilema. IF he really is trying to kick the habit with willpower, rather than dealing with the root of the problem... might it not be better to allow him to fail again, then call him on it, so that he can come to the conclusion on his own that willpower alone won't work?

On the other hand, if I'm wrong, and his way of doing this really is working (which I find extremely hard to beleive based on the experiences of countless other people who've dealt with this problem), won't I just create resentment telling him I want to monitor his activities?

AskMe -- I think I'm strong enough now to handle this in the way you're suggesting. If I find anything, now or in the future, I'm pretty sure my husband would be willing to take the steps Mr. W outlined. But, as I said, I don't want to suggest it out of the blue. And I'd feel a lot better about it if there was also some willingness to do that "working through" stuff.

--SC

rprynne, I went six pages in on this board and didn't see MT's thread. Please tell her I said "hi". The last time I posted to her, I may have been a little harsh. I was a little concerned that I wasn't very helpful.

Why does the "busting event" have to occur to address the conflict that already exists???

I know you are addressing your own conflict avoidance tendencies. Avoiding intimacy yourself was perhaps a precursor to your seeking a fantasy relationship (not being critical...just thinking).

You want your husband to open up his life to you, to share all the nether-regions of himself with you but you are not sharing your fears and thoughts with him. You had your own addiction (OM) to overcome and work through so I presume you have empathy for his. His white knuckle approach can work. I surmise it DOES for most men. Porn is an immature habit which most of us carry forward with us, very secretively, from adolescence but with MATURITY most address it on their own as nearly all hormone infected teenage boys could likely be classified as "sex addicts". It CAN be overcome on one's own if they choose to do it and as his wife, lending support and accountability will only assist the process.

You say his drinking and gambling is stepping up. Instead of "monitoring" the same, I suggest getting in there with concern and compassion for the man you love and helping him there as well. Don't accept his "shame" to discuss any of it with you as an option....darn it, I am your wife and WE have this problem as long as YOU have this problem. WE are going to address this TOGETHER. I surmise YOU BOTH will feel relief once you "TEAM UP" on this marital project.

IF HE REFUSES to discuss the same and/or consider/discuss/choose safe pathways then you have your choices too. My boundary, I refuse to be in a loveless marriage...you are coming to him with love and support. His refusal FEELS loveless to YOU and is unacceptable. Give him a few opportunities to REALIZE how serious you are. But inquire of him, just how important am I to you. Probe for intimacy. Without intimacy you may be forced to "endure" the same miserable cycles over and over.

One last thing. Your husband, like most men, is an extremely visual person sexually. My wife and I have discussed this as I have worked to replace/supplant the sexual images stored in my minds computer with images and thoughts of only her. Though she is very modest I have asked her to be less so around me. That her naked body is beautiful and stimulating to me, even in no-suxual moments. Dressing up and "action" with the lights on (albeit dimly) is feeding my mind images which I can carry forward with me. You can and should discuss this with your husband as you LEAD him and demonstrate your understanding/empathy of who he is as a man. It could also be seen as a REWARD for both of you for successful JOINT behavior modification. Positive reinforcement if you will.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

p.s. - how to initiate the conversation??? Discuss your OWN intimacy issues...how you FEEL unable to discuss your fears and issues with him and that YOU are coming to HIM with the same to share more of yourself with him. The implication being YOU are leading him to sharing more of himself with you. Usually women prefer conversation then SF, mix it up, get a night alone and initiate SF early with the promise of conversation after....go out on the deck thereafter with a glass of wine and open up. Why this techique because men feel closer AFTER SF and may be more likely to open up. Do the dress up thing maybe and after discuss ME and how my wife and I discussed the issue.

p.p.s.- I also surmise NOW is a better time to discuss the issue than AFTER busting him. Immediately trying to address the issue after busting him is when you are being met by SHAME and HUMILIATION. GUILT is not a good motivator and that approach has not worked for you in the past. As long as he has easy access you KNOW he is eventually going to fail. You don't need to wait to address this certain conflict. Take the bull by the horns and get it done with love, compassion and understanding. The courage is in the doing...as I know you know.

Go to the spectorsoft site. I did and bought the spectrum pro software, it was $99 but well worth it. The very next day, I had all my WW passwords, and over the next month have seen everysingle thing she has done on the computer.

As for the porn, I myself enjoy some porn every now and then, it's unhealthy and I havnt looked at any in a long time, I think I got hooked on it because of my WW, even though I didnt know she was WW at the time, but I was being neglected.

My point though is that if he is still using, you will know almost immeadiatly.
Cheers,
Now if I could only get some reply's to my questions on my thread.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Mike K

Mr W...

Yesterday afternoon... I was in the process of writing a detailed response to your last post -- which contained many good points -- when I got sidetracked.

I saved what I've written so far... and hope to get back to it sometime today... although I don't know if I'll have the time.

Bottom line is...



You are right. Bullseye. Ouch.

I was tempted to bypass this line, or brush over it lightly... and just continue to focus on all the other stuff you said about the porn (and I do have some valid/important things still to say about all that) But the truth is... this really gets to the crux of the matter. It's been quite awhile now since I've opened up about much of anything to Mr. C... and the longer it goes on like this, the harder it is to re-start the process.

Part of the problem continues to be...



If only I FELT it. Concern, yes... compassion, yes... love, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. It's still not there. And I don't know what anyone can say to me on this subject that hasn't already been said a million times. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
--SC