((((RiverTam))))
I'm so sorry for this last round of pain he's dispensing. Even though it's "old" news it still hurts, I know. I'm not by any means a plan b expert, so I have no advice as far as that goes. But, I love the post from Still Seeking. It's true that in the end what's important is eternity. Whatever happens here can and will hurt and is of immediate consequence, but the eternal perspective can really help us get through the tough times. Maybe it really doesn't matter how things get worked out? Or maybe it does -- depends on your goals. If you're trying to avoid pain, is it making it any easier to have to continue to talk to the children about it? I really don't know, but i wish you the best. I know you have been and will continue to be blessed for your choices. The Lord's comfort and guidance are there for you. I agree with SS that prayer is VITAL at this (and every) point. Please stay close to the Lord and he will guide you.

Take care,

Dulce

suggested reply:

"There will be no division of valuables until the court makes these decisions. Contact my attorney (name & number)"

Pep

PS ... what an [censored] he is !

Thanks, Dulce. Yes I agree with SS; an eternal perspective is important to me. However, keep in mind the recent revelations and that I'm feeling kinda raw here! I never act when I'm raw (at least, not any more) and have no wish for recrimination. However, self-preservation IS kicking in now that I realize that from the very beginning this was a man with a mission, and the mission was to not escape an abusive relationship, or think about things, or give me another chance, or give himself "time out" to be a better husband and father, but to leave me and the children for another woman and her children. I'm not talking to the kids about this any more than I have to. They feel free to come to me with info (as D18 did with the recent revelations). I have yet to pump any of my kids for info about WH, and only bring up the subject when there are practicalities to take care of. By and large, I'm handling everything OK. I guess that because I almost always only post when I'm in crisis mode or have something out of the ordinary to report it might give the impression that I'm running around like a headless chicken, but by and large I'm fine. There is no drama in my life from WH, and life is good. I try to live my life in the Spirit and have made forgiveness my #2 goal (after getting my children and I through the next couple of months).

Pep, thanks. Yes, I think I might answer with something like that, but first I will show the email to my lawyer tomorrow. [censored]? Yep, I think that covers it. I not amazed how he can kid other people with his good guy, "I'm cool, we're cool" act, but I AM amazed at how he can kid himself.

Stay very dark. When I went to Plan B, my WH tired lots of contact, and then I heard NOTHING for 4 months. That is when he called me at work and announced he was in the process of moving back home.

Thanks, Believer. I'll do that. I might even get the lawyer to answer the email for me.

However, it's pretty much a given that the D is going to go through. I've been in Plan B for 5 1/2 months now, and although he's hated it, it hasn't changed his mind or veered him from his "mission". On the plus side, though, it's done wonders for me. Small comfort at the moment (dammit I feel crappy right now!) but Plan B has been my key to sanity.

How long has the affair been going on?

I'm not sure on dates. He informed me he had a "friend" three months after he moved out, and that they'd been "talking" for about a month, but recent facts come to light mean it was going on for longer than this. WH has been gone for a little over a year, so I'm thinking it's been going for AT LEAST a year.

Affairs last much longer than we would like to think. I've been doing this for 3 and a half years. WH is still living with the OW, but having second thoughts. I'm done though.

Jeez - and who'd blame you? That's a LONG time. I know the Harleys put an A as lasting anywhere from 6 to 24 months, but you kinda have to take into account everything that happens in that time. In my case, it is cruelty and abuse of the highest order, and as it is I think I stuck out Plan A for too long because the love I felt for WH has definitely been eroded to I don't know what.

I was a complete mess at first - for almost a year. But Plan B saved me. I did Plan A much too long.

Affairs all end. WH is having trouble with OW AGAIN. I'm sure they won't last, but it will be too late for me.

Hadn't the OW in your case gone back to her BH and kids? What happened there? (Forgive me if I'm confusing you with someone else.)

Yep - She has gone back a couple of times. But the affairees always seem to work it out. Neither one can trust the other, and I LOVE that!!

Oh dear... all you can do is pop some popcorn and watch the show, right? I mean - it's a tragedy, in light of the lives destroyed (and she's got a daughter whose adolescence she's totally missed out on, if I remember right), but if you don't sit back and watch the absurdity from a detached distance, I think it'd probably drive you more than a little nuts.

river

in my state ALL of your assetts are taken into account.... those from before the marraige also....and given a value. They are then distributed equally based upon the value unless you and your H AGREE to divide them in another way.

It's okay for you to want to do it either way....but I'd wait until you have the advice of a lawyer and the paperwork to document the decision on how things are divided and who got what

my H and i divided things ourselves and we put the list of how the items were divided in writing, we both signed it and had it notarized

it's a good thing too becuase now he's complaining about all that he "gave to me" and that I "stole everything"

i wouldn't have agreed to divide things before he got his crummy divorce but he threatened to come and take what he wanted and the police told me that I couldn't stop him and that they wouldn't stop him either since everything was as much his as mine...then i would have to fight him in court to get what i wanted back

Thanks Eav, yes, I'll deffo talk to my lawyer first.

Sounds as though you did the right thing, with the way things have turned out with your XH. He's been every bit as nutty as mine, hasn't he?

Well... I'm here to say that a few days on, I feel no better about this revelation and realization that it's been going on all along. It's rare for me to have a funk last this long, but it IS lasting, and it's like being betrayed all over again. I understand it's about perception, and about grief, I just didn't think it'd hit me like this so late in the proceedings.

And you know it's funny, but in a way I was thinking that maybe I should have been, if not glad, then relieved at these news. A little while ago I was thinking, "What if my WH and his A are different?" I guess we all think that at some stage, but from what I've read, the Harleys appear to differentiate between spouses who leave to pursue affairs, and spouses who leave and *then* have affairs, even if it's only a couple of months down the track. I was thinking my WH was one of the latter, and as a result maybe the MB principles wouldn't apply, or even the stats that are quoted for affairs wouldn't apply. I HAD been thinking, "If only I KNEW that it has been going on for longer!" Well, now I know, just as I wished I did, but it makes it no easier. Or maybe it will, in the long run. In the short run, not so much. It pretty much sucks all round.

I've kinda had enough of this whole thing. I am sick of always having *one more thing* to deal with. And I am sick of always having to talk about this. I must have become the most boring person on the face of the earth to my friends and family! I wish I could just let it go. Sigh... just venting.

Hi RT!


{{{{{{{RT}}}}}}}}

Please know, there's probably not a BS in the world that hasnt felt duped, doped and stupid like a rock after finding out they have been deceived on such a level. Not a one. You got me thinking about my first few days after really finding out the details, you cannot imagine how much I hated myself for being so stupid. Actually, you do know.

You've had a VERY delayed dday and I think you're feeling like everyother BS did. This is dday #2 for you. Those are almost always more traumatic.... you've gotten over the inital blast, survived (barely) and POW.... kick you in the teeth when you were already down. I am very sorry.

Please know that it's very normal for you to feel this way. It doesnt mean there's anything wrong with you, and it's not some bigger 'sign' about anything. It just sucks.

Give yourself some time to adjust to this and dont worry that you're still funkafied. You will survive all of this and you will have another life and other things to discuss <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. Please take extra care!! - Dru

Hi RT.

Not having been where you are, I can't imagine how you must feel as things move from bad to worse. (Speaking of your marriage, not you personally.) This is not something you would have chosen, and you can't stop it from happening. I understand you are trying to do damage control - make the best of a terrible situation.

Perhaps when you talk to your lawyer you can work out the best way to handle future things as they come up. In other words, figure out how you want to interact with him each time there are communications about the D.

Your lawyer can advise you how to best acomplish your goals. It's the goals you need to think about.

A few years ago I had occasion to retain a lawyer. Someone was trying to cheat me, and this is essentially what is going on with you. Your H and you had a contract (covenant) and he has broken it. So what do you do now?

My lawyer asked me what I wanted to get out of our legal proceedings. At first I didn't understand what he meant.

So he was very blunt.

"ARe you looking to prove he is a liar and a cheater?

Do you want your money back?

Do you want to see if we can put him in jail for fraud?

Do you want to end this as cheaply and easily as possible, protect your inventment, and prevent future problems?"

Then he gave me personal advice -
"If we settle out of court, it will be cheaper, easier, and it won't consume you. If we go to court, you will think of nothing else until it is finished, it will cost you more than you have lost, and it may ruin you financially."

I know we are talking about different things, but think on it some.

If you want the cedar chests and other belongings passed on to your children perhaps that can be done in the divorce proceedings. It may be easiest to get together with your L, and his L and go over everything in person to try and find some middle ground. Then only go to court about things that can't be worked out.

If meeting in person is too difficult, perhaps you can write up a proposal and have your lawyer check it, then send it to him.

A good starting place for any communication he sends you is to delay while you work on it.

"Thanks for your mail about the cedar chests and your belongings, I'll get back to you within a few days."

Don't say it the same way each time, but acknowledge him, and delay.

This assumes you do what to do it as cheaply, and painlessly as possible.

Before, you were delaying D, trying to save your marriage. If you know the marriage is over, try to save yourself as much emotional trauma as you can as you go through the D proceedings.

I am so sorry you have to go through this. I am sorry for your children.

My W's parents D'd when she was 16 years old. Her father blamed her Mother for everything. The mother remained silent.

AS the fathers rantings increased, the children became uncomfortable even being around him. Her mother planned reunions, the children all came. They visited her often, but they shunned him. She was sweet, helpful, loving and kind. Over the years the truth came out. He had been abusive, she wanted to escape that. It was not hard to see the truth as time went on.

He finally realized he was not turing the children from their mother, but from himself. He is finally learning, 30 plus years after the D. Only in the past few years have some of the children started to visit him and interact with him again.

I realize you know most, or all of this already. I don't think you will go wrong - but sometimes it doesn't hurt to think about things. Always remember what God says about how we treat others, even our enemies.

To sum it all up -
Decide what you want to acomplish in the D proceedings, then ask your Lawyer to help you do it the best way.

Try to work out as much as you can with advance discussions and come to agreement outside of court if this fits your goals.

AS much as you want the children to have some of these family items, decide in advance if they are worth a long expensive fight - and then plan accordingly. Perhaps some kind of division or split right up front will save you lots of time and effort.

How you answer his mail depends a lot on what you what to see happen during the D proceedings.

If you want to get the very most out of him that you possibly can, the answer will be different than if you want to get what is your due - or slightly less, as easily and painlessly as possible.

God be with you.

SS

Oh, Dru, thanks so much. Your post made me smile. Which is good! Really good, the way I've been feeling.

SS, thanks so much for your insight, it's really welcome. I don't want to become vindictive in the courts over this. In a way, it's good to have no-fault D laws because we don't have to muck-rake. With his terrible accusations of me, it'd be a ghastly thing to live, and I am just not interested in accusing him in court and fighting him. I only want what's fair and equitable, and don't foresee a fight unless he suddenly realizes how much he stands to lose (he hasn't consulted a family L yet and suspects what might happen but doesn't really know), or The Dodo realizes that the husband she stole isn't the cash cow she thought he'd be. I just don't want him coming here to help himself to "his stuff". It might be his stuff, but this is my home now, the home I rebuilt with blood, sweat and tears after he abandoned us, and he doesn't get free rein while I'm not here, and I will not allow him to do so while I'm here, either. That doesn't mean I won't let him have what he wants, it just means we have to do this in a manner which suits. I plan to be fair in everything, just as I have been all along. Alas, he doesn't really understand or want "fair". He just wants things his way. Since he turned into this monster, he's always one millisecond away from a tantrum, for no reason. I won't destroy the remaining good memories I or the children have over any of this. God knows the man has done enough of this himself. I don't want that weight on me. Whatever he's done, he's not worth the price I'd pay to do this.

Alas, he doesn't really understand or want "fair". He just wants things his way.

My Lawyer wrote the other party a letter. (for a long time the other party refused to talk to us, and thought they could get their way.)

The letter pretty much stated that he had taken our money but refused to honor his end (he gave nothing in return.) If he didn't honor the contract we would seek to have him proscuted for fraud.

The other man finally retained a lawyer himself. His lawyer advised him that he would probably go to jail if he didn't honor the contract. At that point he was in a hurry to come to an agreement.

Now, as I said, this does not directly relate to your situation, but it may help in one way.

It may be time to have your lawyer submit your proposed settlement. That might scare your H into getting his own Lawyer. If his Lawyer knows what will work and what won't, he may advise your H to settle and get it over with.

If you ask (right up front) for what is usually awarded, you have a good chance to get what you ask for, and his lawyer will know it.

Again, I am sorry you have to do this. I don't have any thing cute to say to make it easier. Some times we just have to keep fighting until the battle is over.

Remember this is temporary, and it won't last. Spend time with your children. Enjoy the small things that God gives to make us happy. Try to find Joy in the journey.

SS