Gray stole Alphin's joke.

Sorry SS. Sorry Alph.

Following up more...

Some global warming denial hinges on the assumption of increased fluxes from #1 (atmosphere) to #2 (oceans) and #3 (biomass). Indeed, in the last 200 years, the sizes of both those reservoirs have increased. Not by enough to keep pace with CO2 increases from fossil fuels, but they have increased.

GC

Is the hole in the ozone layer above us (NZ and Australia) a figment of our imaginations? We seem to be "living" global warming.

Our rates of sun caused melanoma are a huge concern down here. Unheard of (almost) when I was a child eons ago. We've all been told it's because of the "hole".

The ozone hole isn't really associated with global climate change. True, CFCs are greenhouse gases, and ozone dominates the energy balance in the stratosphere.

But the ozone hole is caused by catalytic removal of ozone by chlorine in the stratosphere. That chlorine comes from CFCs and CCl4 (acetone) - naturally occurring chlorine has a very difficult time reaching those altitudes without getting rained out.

GC

Thanks GC. You know so MUCH about this stuff.

So if all those Texans put away their Aquanet we should be ok?

J/k

It is known the highest source concentration of CFCs at the surface occurs at what are thought to be the offices of a soft drink concern in the U.S. South Central region.

GC

hahahaha

you in trouble boy

I noticed the hole in the ozone layer also lets in more gravity. I weight more now than I did 10 years ago.

It's a shame that can't be fixed.

SS

About 6000 years ago, right? And then there was a flood, right? And POOF!here we are, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

WAT

WAT:

YES, I almost remember all that!

Dawg! I don't think I've seen this much activity here on a friday afternoon since I was a wee li'l ol' 50-yr old!

Gonna went home!

-ol' 2long

today's temperature in Sherman oaks at 5 PM

one hundred and three freakin' degrees

Yeah, it's toasty here 2.

but only 96, if you can believe that thermometer on our kitchen porch...

But it's clear, the spousal unit is off 2 her OOSP, and the seeing is supposed 2 be good 2 excellent 2night.

gonna get the ol' scope out and gee whiz Jupiter 2night!

-ol' 2long

It's a scorcher here, too. We've already lost another tree to tropical storm alberto, but at least the new roof, which just got back on after 2 year's ago 'canes, seems to be dry.

Whenever I see how much more heat is coming into the central atlantic, all I can think about is all the potential energy for some real weather making. I've lived in Florida for almost 40 years. Unlike the coast over by Camp Pendleton, we've watched our coast dwindle to nothing. Many homes hang out over the dunes.

But you know what? That's too bad. You build on the dune, you gotta expect to get wiped out by a big storm someday. Funny thing, my neighbors, who are all anti-welfare, have no problem hitting our government up for BILLIONS of dollars annually to pump new sand on the beaches to protect their ill-sited homes.

I feel like the sand pumpers are making big bucks, basically trying to fight the rising permanent high tide. We've all tried to save castles built at low tide before, right? Doesn't matter how much you pile in front of the castle, Mother Ocean always claims her bounty!

BTW, I plan to pull off the grid entirely with a micro-turbine. After no power of over 45 days in the past 2 years, I figure I can sell back any excess power to the utility! Just trying to figure out the permitting process in my residential neighborhood.

Thank you for this Gray, Pep, et el.

If anyone wants to know more, the UNFCCC (United nations framework convention on climate change) website is a wealth of information on science, politics, solutions, etc:

http://unfccc.int/essential_background/items/2877.php

Sorry, SS, I did make a mistake. There were 400 climate scientists from the IPCC who wrote the letter, not 200. I wasn't aware of that scientist that GC mentioned. It seems that the media in the US might have given an enormously disproportionate amount of attention to very few scientist/s, and not much to the other 99%. The media loves a good controversy. Perhaps that is the reason for the public confusion.

Is climate change how capitalism finally ends the world ?

I don't know Bob, socialism with all of its 5 year production plans and so forth probably would have got there in the end, too.
Maybe its just human nature?
The question is, this time around, can we be smarter than the Easter Islanders were?

If oil is derived from dinosaurs and plants, the good news is that we only have anywhere from 50 to 90 years of dinosaur remains left.

However, if we want to help the balance in the meantime, we could bury more people and plow under more rain forests to increase the influx of carbon into #4 and surely this would help the environment. Note that burying more people should also reduce the consumption of fossil fuels extending the time remaining for the dinosaurs so this might be counter productive. I guess plowing under more rain forests is the only safe answer without further study on the energy balance.

Fortunately the people buried will turn into oil in no more than a thousand years or so rather than the millions that some people suggest. If the earth is only 6000 years old and nobody in recorded history remembers seeing any of them, they must have all died between 5000 and 6000 years ago. There is empirical evidence that they had already turned to oil and gas as of about 5000 years ago since oil seeps and gas vents were known at that time.

On the other hand it is 119 degrees here and not even summer yet. I may not be thinking clearly.

Not a political question, Smur - a practical one. The third world now has access to cheap industrial technology and their desire to make wealth overcomes any compunction regarding the environment. The west might choose to restrain its environmental effects in a mutual agreement but China & India are unlikely to now they are making wealth for the first time.

Interesting.