Intexas, your WH has so much to prove to you first. I know I'd be doing cartwheels if my WH wanted to work things out. But, remember how much he has hurt you and betrayed your trust. For all the pain and suffering you've endured, he needs to prove his commitment to you and you only. There is certainly no room for a girlfriend. Is he smoking crack? This means all that justpeachy said, repentance. Full and complete repentance.

Sorry, ready2wait, but we are divorcing now. he filed back in November, and after the last stunt he pulled in April (VERY eerily simialr to this babble) I am through. You might have missed that part.
I posted to see how in the heck to handle him now.

It's so sad--that sting. That ache. The senselessness of it. The knowing one day he will truly be miserable--not as a means of manipulation that he tries now so that I might "save" him from this path--but true misery from a life mis-spent, thrown away for selfish gain...that ultimatley was fruitless.

How empty that will be for him. Empty.

SO meanwhile--I will continue to pray for the father of my boys. A man I thought I'd be married to forever.

But I am done compromising here. Everyone has there stoppping point. Mine didn't come soon. But when it came, I've lost those doubts that were there before.

Now it's just a saddness-an occasional sting--and overall, a huge sadness for it all.

It's so very sad, isn't it, intexas? I feel the same about my STBX. However, he's not even close to pulling the same junk yours is. Mine is still so deep in the fog that he doesn't realize what a user his OW is and plans to marry her!! I feel badly for mine as DD's father b/c I know he's going down a bad path.

As much as MB is about marriage recovery, sometimes it ends up as recovery of the self w/o the spouse. Very sad, but if you look back over your old posts, you will see what a strong person you have become. I myself am grateful for MB because I feel like even though my marriage is basically over, I have regained myself. It's going to be a hard road, but we can make it!

Intexas,

I am so sorry, I must have missed that. There is a huge sadness, must greater than anything we could have ever imagined. After all the crap that our WHs put us through and all the grief that we're willing to endure to recover the M, this is how WHs treats us. The WH may not realize it now, but the emptiness and immense loss will affect him for the rest of his life.

Mom,

Personal recovery is the 1st step to survival we all have to take. M recovery can't work if the WS is still a WS. I pity OW's H. In reality he is better off w/o the OW but he may not look at it that way right now. His turmoil is what I pity.

You can move forward with the dignity and grace that befits a faithful spouse. The WS w/b scarred for life, even when he does recover. How big they allow that scar t/b is t/b seen.

Is it sad the WS are still in the fog? Yes. Soon it w/b more visible that their fogginess is their own doing and his ability to blame U will disappear.

Respect yourself. Be proud u r not like that.


Hugz,
L.

InTexas,

I greatly admire your strength and your sense of self. For someone so young, you are very mature and responsible, as well as couragous.

I cannot believe your SBXH texted do you want to date to you. It is almost evil IMO, the way he used you, and is trying to. It is at a minimum, emotional abuse. It is good to see that you want to take yourself out of the drama. Try not to get something from the texts/phone calls. Acknowledge that maybe you do get a "fix" from him when he does this. Almost like an alcholic, you need to remove yourself from him. How about calling the cell phone co. and turn off the text feature? IMO, texting is somewhat for teenagers and is like instant messaging. Neither of which I am fond of due to these methods are two of the ways my WH communicated to OW. You may argue that it is necessary for communication re:sons but people have been divorced for ever and have done so successfully w/o it. Again, a way to take yourself away from the drama.

I was in a similar position as you b4 when my oldest 2 sons were 1 and 3. My mom died when my oldest was 6 mo. old and my dad 1.5 mo. after exposure of the A. I didn't have my BA yet, was working on it as well as working PT. My MOI babysit the boys for free. Financially, I couldn't make it, wouldn't have money for daycare and living expenses, I needed the college degree to earn enough money to do that. So, I stayed. Fast forward, the M never fully recovered as we didn't deal with it. Had another son, my WH continued his flirting with other women, leading to several EA's, one PA. I didn't have any choice at the time, but I did several years later. Couldn't do it bc I thought my sons needed their dad, big mistake. I took responsibility for him being a good dad, tried to "make" him act this way really. Not my job, my job is to take care of me and the kids. I regret this very much.

Lastly, you mention that your family isn't around. Since you want to be a teacher, you could teach anywhere, right? Have you considered moving close to your family? When you are a single parent and a kid gets sick, especially as a teacher, you can't always call in, you need support, which doesn't sound like your STBXH is. He already saw your baby once this mo. and thinks that is enough?? After asking you if he was a good dad?? Pleaz, that made me boil!! My WH is manipulative PA/CA, he says things such as "I know I haven't been a good father, pause for me to say oh no, you are a good dad, you did your best, etc." to stroke his ego, which for years I did, now I just remain silent. He doesn't say it too much anymore after a few times of silent or I say, what do you plan to do about it?

Good luck, my prayers are with you.

Well, according the divorce decree, I am restricted to TX until the baby is 18. Apparently TX is really big on both parents having rights. I have good friends here, though. My family is on Ohio and Mississippi (Louisiana before Katrina). But in a few years, it will be easier because at least two will be on school. Right now that is the reason I'll have to do two jobs--childcare is horrendous. Luckily I already had my BA and only need to do a post-bac certification program. Now if I could just land a job...


After the [email]cr@p[/email] he pulled last night, he called even later to tell me that he'd be bringing the boys around OW as soon as they went to visit him next time (Mind you the conversation before that he was CRYING and BAWLING over losing me). I was calm. I can;t stop OW from seeing them. I've already asked the lawyer. So, I simply said that was his choice. I wanted to reach my hands through the phone and shake him, but I remained calm. I think he wanted a reaction. I then promplty said--gotta go and hung up. He called back, of course, and I picked up (this is my wirk phone) and said I was busy, could not talk.

I think his new game plan is to impress OW with my kiddos. He;'s kept them away from her for a long time (he believed me that she couldn't be around them for months, but I guessed he's wised up). It sickens me, but I am aware that it is out of my control. I'm stable and consistent, and I know my boys will realize that in the end.

Just let your children know that their father is hanging around some 'strange lady' (use that lady term usely). Then tell them to make sure they stay a safe distance from her and that she may try to bribe them with toys and candy. They need to be safe and let them know they can call u when needed. If your children are not old enough for a cell...... just warn them about the strange lady. Expect them to like her a bit. Bribery is a strong tool....remember the cigarette commericals? Joe Cool Camel? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

L.

Oh, they like her alright. They've met her before--more inthe beginning--and they know dad drived her car a lot. They are four and three and thinks she's sooo cool b/c she's a biology teacher (aka has lots of bugs and cool animals and such). My four year wants a science b-day party. WH says--"cool, then I know he's gonna love Tiffany (OW). Last time he saw her she shoed hom her bug collection."

I wanted to hurt him. Really bad right at that moment. But I stayed calm. I've told my 4 year old (almost 5) that daddy and Ms. Tiffany are boyfriend and girlfriend, and it si wrong to have a BF or GF when you are married. But I don't think he'll get it yet. That's okay. He's innocent in all this.

Your children are smart. They maybe swayed for a while but eventually they will know that she has stepped over the line. I told my 6 year old the same thing and he said that even if they tried to give him all the toys in the world, he won't love them more than his real mom (me). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> He said toys and stuff can't replace a mom and he knows it. So don't underestimate your children. They are young and learning quickly but not stupid. Also, they are not in the fog so they will see through the facade of the A pretending t/b a family. You need t/b patient about it and that is the hard part.

JMHO,
L.

Thanks Orchid. Patience here is the hard part, but I am a naturally patient and flexible person. I just really hate thinking of my precious boys having to grow up like this or come to such conclusions.

After the lovely date comments from stbxh and then all the anger, i heard nothing for two days almost.

It was nice. Calm. Uneventful. (Well, not uneventful--I had a mid-term to study for).

But then today hits.
BOMB!
I text him that our oldest has mono, just diagnosed today along with strep. (Ben is visiting my parents in ohio, so I knew he would want to know.) I texted him because he doesn;t check e-mail much on summer since he is not at work, and I did not want to call him.

he immediatley calls back and I answer.

He goes off on how mad he was at me for not calling him and wishing him a happy dad's day. (The boys called mind you and got hima present). He was basically talking to himself at this point, since I had no interest in such conversation. I told him I had to go, as I did not see any need for this conversation.

He calls back three times. I don't answer, though I do enjoy listening to my poly-phonic ring-tone version of "I will Survive" (There was great irony and joy at that moment.)

So he of course leaves a long message.
Hate spewed forth. Such things like he hopes the boys don't grow up like me to be so inconsiderate and dismissing. (???) Says he will send the child support when he gets around to it. (This is his way of punishing me.) Said he will never have a relationship with the baby. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Sometimes he makes me want to scream. But most times I wish he could just be a good man again. Living with so much anger and living with such a weight on his shoulders and in such sin--I would not want to be him.

Thr very last thing he said on the message was to not ever contact him about money again, only about the boys. He has not given me money for over a month now, and I am sure he can get in trouble for that. I have already told my lawyer.

There are better days ahead. I keep telling myself that.

Was he really a good man before?

No, Believer, and it is hard for me to say that. Not the kind I thought he was. I have been forced to look back over the whole time I've known him and evaluate it from a different perspective.

And it scares me what i see. He has always been about himself--what he wants. He's been so verbally and emotioally abusiv, I just put the "good Christian wife" hat on and brushed it aside. I have a hard time remembering good times. Maybe that is why it took me less than a year to get to this point.

Compound all he has done (and I am referring to doing this while I was preggers, too) and look at how he has treated me since, I am almost embarassed to say I didn't see the signs before. I am embarrassed because i see myself as a smart girl with a good head on my shoulders...and sometimes I wonder how I ended up in this predicament.

I said "good man" again because i think somewhere in there is goodness. It's in all of us to some extent, especially because i know WH is a Christian, or i always thought he was.

This is tough stuff, huh B?

InTexas,

I've heard and seen fog before, but it seems as though your STBXH is immature, and well, I hate to say it, just plain mean-spirited. Why would he not pay support for his son's as a way to get back at you, and I don't quite undersand what he is getting back at you for?? And to say he would never have a relationship with the baby as a way again to punish you? The baby is his, right? This is all very confusing and mean. I feel bad for you :-(, but most of all his sons who will suffer for his behavior.

This may be in the lines of MYOB, but your divorce agreement to not move out of the state until the youngest, whom he doesn't want a relationship with, is 18 seems very restricting. And for what, to be part of this emotional abuse saga?? I still see that you need your family around you to help raise your sons, especially since your STBXH is not an active participant, at least a positive supporting parent and partner in raising them, that you need. As Hilary Clinton says, it takes a village to raise a family.

Also, why would he think you should call him on father's day, he isn't your father! Again, I would still advise you to pull yourself away from his drama. The texting to him you most likely knew would lead to a phone call. I can see that you tried to take yourself out of it and he continued to call. Couldn't you tell him about your son during a p.u. or drop-off of the other kids? He really couldn't do anything about it and after the divorce the kids will get sick lots of times, which you would only need to communicate medicine dosages, etc..

I wish you luck and send prayers for you.

Thanks for the response nab.

You're right, I probably should not have texted him, but the boys are out-of-state visiting my parents (whom he hates) and he woul dthrow a fit if when they called him next, Ben told him he was sick. Not that he really cares, but it would be a way for him to say I wasn't keeping him up with the kids. What I sould have done differently was not answer when he called at all. That was where I went wrong.

I agree about the moving out of state thing, but I have my hands tied since he wants joint custody. And lovely Texas is fond of this as well. And, I want the boys to have access to him. I do wish I had family here. But I have been here a long time without family, and have made quite a home of this place.

Sometimes it feels so lonely--when I sit back and think it really is just me and my boys here in this big ole' state--but I have the dearest friends who helpout so much. I am blessed in that area.

I, too, worry about the boys as well--more than anything else. they are so precious and so innocent. He uses them to me as a manipulation tool--like saying OW was gonna be around them whent they get back from ohio. But I know those boys will have a very stable, hard-working parent in me.

Yes the baby is his. Wanted to clarify that! We were virgins when we married.

In Texas,

I understand being settled in another state. I was in NJ and moved back to OH so that my sons could be near their dad, if our M didn't work out. My sons are much older than yours, but I still felt it was important. I miss NJ, I go back there one week a month on business. It is a little bit of a rock and a hard space. I see my family here, I can be part of my nieces and nephew's lives here, but there is much less opportunity for me financially as I have to find another job soon.

I also wanted for my sons a sense of family. We would have the 1st communions, graduations, sports events, all w/o family, sometimes my MIL. My youngest didn't remember having a birthday with his larger family around, weddings we missed, etc., you get the picture. So, back I came, you never know if your doing the right thing when you are doing it, but I guess you have to take comfort in it is the best you can do at the time!

I hope your STBXH comes out of it and takes on the role of dad to your sons. Sounds like you have a fourth son, and it doesn't sound like emotionally you need any more baggage!

Your doing great, keep it up!

Hi friends.

I got tough tonight. I have basically spent the last 45 minutes hanging up on STBXH. He will not stop calling. OW is temporarily ousting him and he suddenly <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> wants to confess his undying love and commitment to me again.

I've played that record before. It's a fall back plan. It's manipulation. It's FRUSTRATING.

He will not leave me the heck alone.

I don't answer calls.
I don't answer texts.
I don't call him.

But he will e-mail me. Or leave me messages. URRRRRRRRRRR!

Here is some of what I have heard from him today:

Intexas, I don't have to give you any money until we are divorced.

I wish Elliot (our baby) was not here.
I wish he was not mine.
Are you sure he is mine? How do I know that?
I want the baby to call me Mr. Intexas, and not dad, because I want you to remarry and tell him that is his dad.
This is all your fault.

And he has said to me via some sort of electronic device:
I just want to stop living.
I want to work on us.
I am gonna call OW and chew her out and let her know what she is giving up in me.
I still love OW.
I want to make it work for the kids.


All of this. All today. I swear I am gonna go bonkers. He has said MUCH more than that. But I can't remember it all and have deleted most of the messages.

Do you think when he finally hits rock bottom, God will tell him to leave me be, and this time he might listen, since he'll be walking with the Lord again?

That might be a twisted way to look at this, but gosh dern, i feel released from him. I have a peace about it--one I know I could not have conjured up on my own.

URRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!

Okay, back to regular MB'ing.
Just needed to vent to some friends who kind of understand.

InTexas,

Sorry for the current/old twist to your sitch. I would delete his voice messages w/o listening to him, for the time being. I understand with the boys you cannot do this very long, but it is just getting you upset. He is very controlling and manipulative. I wonder what, if anything, can be done legally, can an X be charged with harrasement? It is verbal abuse, at the least.

I would be tempted to say to him, "I wish Elliot wasn't your son, bc what kind of role model are you? I certainly wouldn't think he would learn good morals and values, how to treat your family, how to be responsible. In fact, he would learn how to put himself, and his sex drive, above all else", but unfortunately, STBXH, he is your son as I do have good morals and values and I didn't break our M vows like you did. Like I say, tempted, but wouldn't do it bc (a) it would fall on deaf ears and (b) would fuel more messages from him, and if I hear you right, you just want him to stop and let you move on.

YES!!!! Hallelulah.

I have given chances, all the while having my firm boundaries, truly desiring this to be fixed.

Now I just want him to be a good dad (if possible).
And I want to be left alone. It's very harrassing. And he knows I am a nice person and he can count on me to be nice.