SB -

Just sneaking onto MB for a few minutes before the tired kiddies wake up. I have to disassemble the giant tent in the middle of the living room. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Your nice comment meant a great deal to me, but I have to put in a disclaimer. Or two. One is I am still a fairly new kid on the block. Sadly, there are more brand spankin new kids every day, but I'm far from an old-timer. (Which is why I extra-value the more seasoned troops 'round here.) The other is that most of what I did was yield to God. I must have driven Him crazy by always want to stir the pot when He had it simmering nicely, but for the most part I let Him do the hard stuff.

By all means, have a quiet Fourth! You would not be nearly as happy to see fireworks over there. Thank you for what you do.

I just saw this:

AHHHHHH!

This is excruciating. I have no idea what it going on with either my daughter or my wife. No e-mail, no phone calls, no nothing. Praying a lot. Not sure if MIL has convinced WW to take DD out of state or what. This is crazy.

NSYN - I have resigned myself to the expectation that this EA/PA will last until I come home for good. I hope I can stay sane until then and I hope that I can continue contact with DD during that period. I can't do anything to get through to them without being pushy.

Thanks for your continued prayers.

sbmmal

Only contact in 4 days from WW via e-mail was painful to read but it is still very obvious that we are still in the midst of an A full-swing:

On a relationship note, you and I are in very different places. I appreciate all of the efforts you are making to change and I hope that you are doing it more for you than for us. The only lasting change will be because you chose to do so for yourself and God. My heart is closed to any possibility for a marital reconciliation between us. Although you have apologized for the financial mistrust in me, that was the last straw for me. I don't trust you and I feel very betrayed. I did not spend money on a relationship outside of ours. I am hurt that you would even think that I would do that.

I continue to care about you as a friend, father to DD, and brother in Christ. You can call and talk to DD anytime you want to. This decision has been prayerfully considered and God has given me peace.

In Him,
WW

P.S. I will be closing the Cingular account."

Please advise if anything outside of the norm here for the script of a betrayed spouse and what my response should be from the MB perspective.

Thanks in advance.

sbmmal

Nope, sounds pretty typical.

It reminds me of the time AJ was shocked to find that I STILL didn't believe him when he denied resuming sexual activity with the OW. He actually appealed to the dog, rofl. "YOU believe me, don't you boy? Yes, you do! SHE doesn't believe us, no she doesn't." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

She is far from done with you.

"On a relationship note, you are making me feel really bad by your willingness to change. I wish you would stop, but if you won't, at least let me convince you to believe you are only doing it for yourself, because then I won't feel as awful. Of course I don't want to think of reconciliation, because I am in the middle of my affair, and that would tend to interfere with the fantasy. In a way, I'm kinda relieved that you did that stuff with the finances. Now I have a really big excuse to be mad at you, and to cut you out of my life, and just something that sounds better to all these people that are calling me, than having to say, 'Well, I am cheating on my husband'. How could you do that? There should be NO consequences for my actions! I am going to keep plucking this one string over and over and over, trying to make you feel super-guilty for even doubting me.

"I love you, but I'm not in love with you. I have ignored the voice of my conscience, and am floating in an uneasy spiritual silence. Lalalalalalala, God, I can't hear you!

"P.S. I am turning off the cell phone, just in case you are able to access the bill and see who I am calling, and when."

Don't stress it, I know it's hard, but it will all come out in the wash. Eventually.

Oh, suggested response.

Dear WW,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings with me. It means a lot to me when we communicate on a deeper level.

I love you and our DD very much, and look forward to the time we can be together as a family again, and be happier together than we have ever been, with our new, improved marriage.

Love,
Your Husband

Your persistent refusal to buy into her garbage, and the way you consistently cling to the marriage and the chance for future bliss, will drive her nuts. She will rail at you and try to convince you to be done with her. When she fails, she will not know what to do.

AJ tried many times to convince me to be done with him, so he wouldn't have to be the one to pull the plug. Even if your WW goes so far as to file for D, her mental processes will still follow the same general course.

Neak,

Thanks for your continued support and for your help in the response. I'm getting closer to being able to respond consistently to this garbage.

I got another DVD together and I'm finding them very therapeutic and a great way to connect with DD before I get home.

I got a laugh about AJ's bringing the dog into the argument against a continuing affair on your thread and again when you posted it on mine!!!

Off to read some more. I got the Fall in Love, Stay in Love CDs and Dobson and Smalley's books about loving your wife the right way... Much to do before getting home.

Love Never Fails. 1 COR 13:8

All I am and will become in Him,
sbmmal

The dog, being smart, never said a word! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Dogs are like that - loyal, true and silent when it counts!

Spoke with WW last night for about an hour. It was very congenial at first - she says she's making some big changes; leaving private practice and going back to a job in an agency where she can deal exclusively with children and not have to worry about billing out hours and not getting paid; going to a domestic violence prevention and recovery group at the behest of her mother. [Point of order - I want to reiterate that I have employed enough of the controlling LBs (SDs, DJs, AOs) and some independent behavior to drive my wife to emotionally withdrawal, but I have never raised a hand to her and I haven't yelled at her since Novemeber, even when I wanted to after finding out about the A and having my instincts kick in.] Anyhow, I told her I was glad she was seeking professional help in whatever form and I told her I was too. There is so much going on at once with her that I'm trying to keep up but having a hard time.

As we transitioned into the conversations about finances, her infidelity, and my controlling behaviors, I tried to stay on message without any LBs. I think it was effective and I think I caught her off guard a bit by telling her I'd been pursuing IC. She mentioned that she was using the A as an exit strategy from our marriage, and she said the same thing about what she had tried during Korea with her other infidelities. I told her it would've been far more effective if she'd not led me to believe that we were making progress toward real intimacy before the A began. I also reiterated the way ahead with us doing some MC in addition to the IC we both needed. I told her it was certainly not too late to fix our marriage and make it better than it ever had been before, but that it would likely take some time for her to see and accept the changes that I was making with God's help. She seemed to accept this on some level. I also told her that her continued relationship with OM would make it impossible for her to achieve what she's longing for with either of us. She went off about the exposure and about the finances and told me she'd never be able face some of those people again. I did not apologize and explained that it was in the best interest of DD, our family, and our marriage that I humbled myself by approaching some of our best friends and family for help for BOTH of us. I also reiterated that I'm thankful for the trial that has forced me to take a repentant turn, increasing my faith and furthering my walk with God. Nevertheless, she believes I'm having her followed and that the neighbors are watching her with disapproval, which is not true because of anything I've done...

I've been reading a lot and I just ordered Love Busters and the 5 Steps to Romantic Love workbook to go with it. I'm making arrangements for an intake with MB counseling on Monday or Tuesday. I'm talking to a doctor and a chaplain here in the meantime. In reading a book by Gary Smalley, I realize how I have hurt my wife by failing to control my instinctive behaviors and mostly by my own stupid male ego and ignorance of an entirely different love language. It was reassuring to know that we men, including yours truly, are mostly genuinely ignorant of how to achieve true intimacy and even when you tell us, it takes a lot to get through and much more to make the changes stick... but that when they do, it is possible to fan the flames back to love.

One note of curiosity from the conversation that raised my eyebrows was her insistent paranoia that I was cheating on her. I mentioned that I was seeing an IC and she responded that it must be a woman therapist. I mentioned that I was learning a lot about women - she asked how before I could even finish explaining I was reading books by Dobson and Smalley. Is this a normal pattern - they are cheating so they believe a retaliatory strike is pending or in progress?

I've been thinking about a recovery plan and I think one of the issues that needs to be resolved is the WW's abandonment and fidelity issues along with a need to be the center of the universe. In thinking about our 10-years together, this is probably the third major incidence of her drifting away to feel her oats in a period of my absence, regardless of promises made and pledges on both sides. I think she has the same intimacy roadblocks that I have, but that for whatever reason it's okay for her to test the waters when she needs an escape from reality and being a mature adult in a mature adult relationship. Am I off base here?

Sorry for the long post but it was an interesting conversation and left me with a lot to think about and more hope that this is doable, despite the overt language from her that it is not - her emotions and her non-verbal communications betray her true desires for the outcome.

I could use some input from the MB elite on how to proceed with her given her dramatic career changes...

Love never fails. 1 COR 13:8

All I am and will become in Him,
sbmmal

While we're waiting on the elite, I have a couple of thoughts. First, I have no clue about the escape from reality thing; it sounds possible, but I don't really have personal experience that would give me a good guess on that one.

It may even wind up in your favor about the new counselling. Let's pray it does. As her counsellor keeps asking her, does he do this, does he do this, and educating her about truly controlling behavior, it may give something to contrast against your doglike (lol) devotion.

Even worst case scenario, where the counsellor totally buys into what your WW tells her, and gives all kinds of advice against you, still is not going to change the basic facts of your future, even if it prolongs it a bit. The A will still end, counsellor or no counsellor, and you will still be poised to very likely have the opportunity to recover your marriage.

If the counsellor is destructive, finding a new one should be part of your boundaries that she will agree to if she wants you back.

Perfectly normal to think you are having an A. Don't stress it. Just take the opportunity to keep reassuring her of your doglike love and devotion (really, don't say doglike <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />), and do not do anything that would give her the idea you are cheating on her. That's about all you can do.

She probably half-hopes, and is half-afraid that you are. If you are, she has the best possible excuse for leaving you, but she could also lose you to someone else. Hey, at least she's thinking about you some of the time.

If her career changes do not involve easier access to the OM, support them. Unless you know for sure the A is being helped by this, be very very happy for her. If you find out something later, you would just mention that your marriage is not going to work if she continues to [fill in the blank], but make no ultimatums at that time. Add it to your list of boundaries, and you will deal with it at the end of Plan B.

You're doing fine.

NSYN,

Thanks for your encouragement. I just made arrangements for a session with Jennifer Harley on Monday night. Crappy part is I have to get up at the BCD (b*tt-crack of dawn) to make the call, but hey, our marriage is worth it.

I also made some arrangements with a LMFT back in WA for when I am home on leave. I'm sure I will be needing some support from someone while I'm dealing with WW. I've got the Army footing the bill for those and I'm going to encourage WW to use the same service.

I agree on the career change and I actually think it will make contact with OM much less frequent. I think it is in the death spiral, but I don't underestimate the power of the EA on this one either, as I'm sure they're still talking a lot on the phone. Nevertheless, she is really respecting the boundaries in the finances and I'm thinking she wants to see whether she can make it on her own until I get myself sorted out... It is so hard to say which way is up, but like so many have said here - work on yourself to the max and everything will work out right either way.

I am feeling very positive and thank God for MB and the support of these forums.

sbmmal

Please tell me how you go about getting the military (Army) to pay for family counseling?? I am in the midst of an affair and so desperately want to end it...but we have major marital issues besides the affair that need to be worked out. I would like to line up a marital counselor before I admit the affair to my husband and put and end to it. I desperately want to start working on our marriage.

ND,

Too easy - glad to be of service. Please tell your husband and work on your relationship after exiting the relationship with the OM with the pledge of no contact. You will make half of the effort to reconcile and be well on your way to making this work. It would be even better if you could get him on MB before breaking the news to him and after you end it. This is a great place...

Call Military OneSource at 1-800-342-9647 or go to their website (www.militaryonesource.com) and lookup counseling for more information on the program. OneSource will pay for 6 sessions of individual counseling for you and if you can't finish working through it after that they will refer you back to the military or bill your insurance to continue. If you need MC, you and your husband can use the same program under his name for 6 comp sessions together.

Whatever you do - end it first (i.e. NOW), make it a permanent break, be honest and back away for the fireworks, and then be willing to work through it together with the goal of marital reconciliation as the endstate. He'll understand when the knife in his back stops hurting so much and you remove it by doing a lot of the dirty work ahead of time.

God bless you and your family.

sbmmal

You might have to shop around a bit, but is there any chance that the chaplains do counseling like that? You would want to find one with affair recovery experience, but that might be possible if you do not succeed in finding a regular military counselor.

If you have not, be sure to read all you can here about how to end an affair, and what your husband will need from you in order to recover.

I've created my own barracks-room industry with the DVDs. I showed one of my lieutenants the stories I was reading my daughter and he was so impressed with the production quality that he wanted me to help him make one for his wife. They are struggling with the deployment as well. War is not a good thing for marriages - it is doable, but very, very difficult for both spouses, especially if you don't have a "solid foundation," my wife's words from the last call and months ago haunting me now...

I feel a lot better when I've got the chance to help others in the same situation - that's the power of community. I prayed a long time last night for nursedana and her husband. I hope he doesn't lose it when she lets him in on the dirty little secret... Betrayal is a real stinger when you get blindsided while doing something like this to achieve something much greater than yourself.

I ordered the MB HN,HN and LB courses and had them sent home. Not sure we will get there before leave ends, but it'll be good to have them when this madness ends. I sent my wife a note to let her know that I'm going to concentrate sharing my personal growth efforts with her dad. I think there is a lot that he and I could learn from taking this challenge on together and I'd like to be able to witness to him as well. I don't think WW and he are on speaking terms right now anyhow. He's pretty disappointed in her and the choices she is making. A great opportunity to help him eliminate LBs in his paternal relationship with her while I'm doing it as her husband.

I finished Smalley's If He Only Knew: What No Woman Can Resist last night and saw a lot of my own flaws in that book... I wish I had listened and LEARNED all this before now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Water under the bridge... I'm reading Dobson's What Wives Wish Their Husbands Knew About Women tonight. I'm sure that if I hear it more than one way I'll understand it better. I must reiterate that men, speaking for all of my ilk here, are geniuinely ignorant of how to cherish, tenderly love, and nourish their wives. It's compounded when we are too prideful to listen to the needs and genuine criticisms from their sensitive and fragile helpmates...

I'm living in Ephesians and James right now. I loved the way Mortarman put together the Husbands and Wives Roles thread and explained savior, sanctifier, and satisfier for the men. Really broke it down clearly. Standing on the following verses until I have them memorized and internalized... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ephesians 5:25-32 - Husbands love your wives... as Christ loved the church... and presented her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. Husbands love your wives... as their own bodies... no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church. Man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and the two will become one flesh.

James 1:13 - Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.

I am curious how much to talk the message of the harm she is doing to me and DD with her while in Plan A? I'm trying to "own my feelings" but not DJ or LB in the process. I finished the e-mail by telling her honestly how I'd felt used disrespected by her actions given my current stationing and that she still had a chance to make it right by getting OM out of the picture so we could move forward together for DD and for us. Not over the top, right?

Okay last thing - I got a new CD for the BS and I mixed it in with the worship music on my MP3 player as additional motivation... Alana Davis put out an album last year called Surrender Dorothy and there are like 6 songs on there from the perspective of the BS - really good stuff. Sorry for the long post... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

sbmmal

I think one thing that helps wives get through this is close ties with other wives in the same situation.

My husband was in Vietnam for 18 months. It was awful. At that time, there were no organizations for the wives. I felt very alone. Didn't fit in with single friends, OR married friends.

I live in Oceanside, HOME OF THE MARINE CORPS. Here there are all kinds of organizations for those left behind. It is wonderful to see the support and friendship.

Hope you will let others know about this site. Over the last few years we have talked with lots of deployed men - from Afghanistan, Iraq, and other places.

My WH started his affair with the OW when her husband was fighting in Iraq. Talk about low. I still have a hard time believing it, because my husband always had a heart for those serving our country.

Prayers to you and all of the others over there.

B,

Thanks for your post. I agree and I tried to get my wife involved in the unit family readiness group to an extent, but we are in the National Guard, so relationships amongst family aren't that tight and people are scattered all over the state.

I read your post about the Harley and I want to commend you for being the bigger person. I have a feeling you fought your hardest for a long time to save your marriage and I want to thank you for the inspiration. As MB promises, you succeeded for yourself despite the outcome and the infidel's attacks. I am proud of you and I don't even know you - great work.

sbmmal

sbmmal

thankyou very much for your well wishes on TL's thead. I also wish to thank you too being where you are and doing what you have to do. Just stay safe and get home to your daughter and I pray a remorseful wife.

I do hate that my DH has to go again but thats what I signed on for when I married the regular army I guess <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
I feel my DH has done more than his share but my opinion apparently is not considered <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I guess I'll be a bit of a mess after he goes but I come from a long line of worriers. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
We had a farewell the other night for the men and families and prayed the soldiers prayer. it has always given me some comfort.

Friends, we gather in this place to celebrate the mass and pray for our friends, husbands, brothers and sons who today are facing the ultimate test of a soldiers life, battle.
It is sometimes hard, in times like these, to understand God's will. We pray to be granted comfort and acceptance of what may be the unbearable.

Let us pray

Our good Lord, grant them to serve thee as thou deservest; to give and not to count the cost; to fight and not to heed the wounds; to toil and not to seek for rest; to labour and not to ask for any reward, save that of knowing that they do thy will; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

Unto God‘s gracious mercy and protection we commit them. The Lord bless them and keep them. The Lord make his face to shine upon them, and be gracious unto them. The Lord lift up his countenance upon them, and give them peace, both now and evermore. Amen.

Lord God, let this prayer be their armour and comfort in the time of their need
"Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil,
for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me."
Oh gracious Lord, if it be THY will deliver thy servants from the valley of the shadow of death and return them to their loving families. Grant them safe journey through Jesus Christ Our Lord. Amen.


Take care & I'll pray for you and your family if thats ok

AW

I am not gunning for anyone, and I have no agenda. I am simply willing to be "radically honest" about what I am thinking. If you don't like honesty, that "tells" on you. You say I am not helping but honesty does indeed help-and the founder of this site would agree with me on this particular point.

Infidelity isn't the only issue SB is battling here. In his telling of the tale, he said that he was wrong to be "controlling" with his wife. This is a serious matter that needs exploration in order to achieve a LASTING repair of their relationship-if that is even possible at this point. Singing kumbaya and holding hands isn't going ot do it, but honesty would be a step in the right direction.

To be clear-SB needs to address the issue of his controlling behavior: That is... admit it, delve into it, discuss it, and see why he did it. Otherwise he is likely to repeat it and this cycle will happen for him and his wife (or subsequent paramours) all over again.

BY the way, name calling on the MARRIAGEBUILDERS web site? Wow... Do you use that tactic within your marriage?

I am someone who values marriage; however, I believe that self love is important as well.