[quote I am very task oriented, so I do end up filling my schedule with plans and activities, much of it while G is not here. So I can see why when she comes down here, she feels like everything has already been pre-planned, and so she backs off. AGG [/quote]

My two cents (if it's even worth that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) is this - my BF and I are the same way, task oriented - we both work full time, he has older kids that he spends weekend time with, and both of us have community/hobby commitments - so having an organized schedule is mandatory, and I understand that. Problems do arise when the weekend comes (that's pretty much the only time we see each other) and we talk and one or the other says "well, Friday I've got this to do, Saturday is filled with this to do, and Sunday I'm doing this with the kids, you can join us if you want" - I can only speak for myself that when that happens, I'm hearing the unspoken message (and it's neither right or wrong, it's just how I interpret it) that I don't fit into those plans. I'm guilty of it too - filled up my schedule without taking into consideration what my BF might want to do, and I wonder if he feels the same. So, I can kinda sympathize with G on this one. I've lived my life for such a long time with just "me" to accomodate, that it has been a difficult lesson to learn how to compromise and think for two instead of just one.

Wiffty,

I have to agree with you, why do things HAVE to be planned all the time??

What happened to just sitting back and relaxing?

That may also be part of the problem, you are always DOING something, thinking you need to entertain them, when in reality, you don't.

Why not just do nothing sometime, sit back and relax and enjoy it.

You are both right - in this day and age, we as a society are wayyyyy too into "planning" everthing. I, for one, am guilty of that. In my defense I can say my reasons are that I have a job that takes me away from home for 12 hours a day, I have a 4-bedroom old falling apart house that is in constant need of upkeep, a lawn that needs tending, and grocery shopping that needs to get done, ad nauseum. So, the weekends (a short two days) are all I have to get this stuff done. After all that, I might get a Saturday night that is free.....so I want to be sure that I have something to do for ME - thus the need for planning. However, I'm starting to understand the importance of just "being" - and trying oh so hard not to be so stringent in my life - would it kill me to just lie on the couch on a Saturday night? Nahhhhh - it's just difficult to do when one is so out of practice.

AGG ~ Coming to this party a tad late, but wanted to throw out a couple of things.

First, I see myself in many of your responses and also your & my situations are quite similar - 2 kids, the main house of the partnership, significant job, she has to travel to see me, her folks live farther away, etc.

What would it be like if You were HER???!!!! What would that feel like? What would that think like?

1. You gave up one of your most significant life choices for her? (kids)

2. You had to fit into her lifestyle?

3. You did much of the traveling to her place?

4. You had to come to term with HER kids? Fit in?

5. She had signifcantly more than you in A$$ets. She wanted a prenup to prevent you from benefitting. Her kids (which you secretly may not entirely like) were the recipients.

6. All you really had in life was your family, and they lived far, far away. Hers were all rather close by. Your family was your life before you met her. They were YOU. They are YOUR origins in this world. You wanted her to be willing to travel often to see the "heartbeat" of YOUR life. She said...No! Not on YOUR terms...only on HER terms.

7. When you made the more often than not commute to see her, she already had everything planned. Her kids were always there. Now she is implying that YOU don't really help out & take the lead at HER place with HER kids who are going to receive HER A$$ets from HER prenup. How would that feel to you? A tad frightening? A tad bit overwhelming? Certainly that whatever you might come up with would likely be shot down in a heartbeat? Or the kids wouldn't want to / like it / care about it? Or that once again...it was ALL ABOUT HER!!!????

Just trying to help all of us think through & begin to apply the Golden Rule a bit more in our lives & dating.

It's not all about Me. It's not all about Her. It's really about US!!! 2 basically self-centered people trying to figure out how to blend two very difficult situations & lives isn't easy. It takes REAL work & honesty & self-evaluation. But most of all - it takes each one being willing to say "no" to oneself first. Deny the selfishness to enhance the US first.

I'm in nearly your the same spot AGG. I feel for ya. I'm wrestling with similar themes. I'm trying to learn to hold myself to a higher standard than just "what about me & my feelings". Hope this helps.

Hi HF,

Thanks for the interesting and thought provoking post. I have to say that I often do try to put myself in G's shoes, and empathize with her view of things. And certainly a lot of what you mention could be what is on her mind.

My original thought was to reply to each of your (G's) points, with counterpoints like "well, it was her choice to not settle down and have kids in her 20's and 30's, and instead find herself at 40 with no kids and no H, that is certainly not my burden to bear", or "yes, her commute would get longer, but she would live in a great neighborhood in a beautiful home with an ocean view", or "I drive to see her more often than she comes to see me, so that is not an imbalance", or "sure she has to fit to my lifestyle, but that is how it usually is when a childless person hooks up with a person with kids - they typically continue the 'life with kids' lifestyle, not the 'singles' lifestyle". Anyway, you get the point.

And then I started realizing that the very nature of such a tit for tat between "her view" and "my view" would be very telling. If this is truly how we felt, then we shouldn't be together. Why? Because it would show that instead of trying to create a relationship, we were keeping scorecards, trying to convince the other person of how much we were doing or sacrificng for them. I think that is fundamentally flawed, and I think that if that is how people approach relationships, then they are missing the boat. Relationships should be about building mutual happiness, not keeping score of who is the bigger martyr.

Which brings me to my point. I have never (to my recollection) kept score. I have never counted how many times I took her to dinner, or drove up her way, or how many hours in a day I did chores compared to her, etc. I know she and I are different, but I do what I do because I want to, without holding resentment or thinking that she owes me. And yet, sadly, when I see your writing, and I remember that these are the very things that G told me at times, I do wonder if she keeps score - "he won't give me a baby", "he won't travel back east", "I would have to move", "I would have to adjust to those kids", etc. Hmmm.

You know, if she really feels this way, then she should not be dating me, because that is the first sign of resentment, when you keep thinking of how much you have done for the other person. Really, if she feels the way that you described when you asked me to put myself in her shoes, then I think she should move on instead, as it would show lots of dissatisfaction and "sacrifice". I don't want that from my partner.

Anyway, I guess the bottom line and the answer to your question is that I hope that she does not feel the way you suggested. And if she does, she should tell me about it and move on to someone else, because I would not want to be with someone who has kept such a scorecard of her sacrifices. This would tell me that she is willing to put her needs on a backburner just to get married, but then obviously at some point the inevitable "I did so much for you and sacrificed sooo much for you!!" would come up - no thanks!!

Does that make any sense?
AGG

AGG ~ Hope you've had a decent week. Wow!!! Reading your post brings back sooooo many memories to me.

My Exwife was a patent "Score Keeper" par excellence!! And because I could never be perfect enough, never measure up to her score card - she went affair shopping. With predictable results.

Anyway, you & I could be twins!! I mean that. We have such similar thought patterns about these sorts of things. I could just picture myself right there seeing her score keeping & building resentment; and it really leaves you cold. Uncertain about what to invest; about whether she's really going to work out or not.

I'm with you 100% on the thought that if this is really TRUE for her -- that already she's secretly resenting several of these areas of your relationship, then absolutely, you don't want to go down that road. It will not lead to anywhere good.

I hear the pain in your voice as you say, "I hope she doesn't feel this way". I think this will all ultimately have to come on up for honest review & deep seated discussion. There's no other way.

Now here's the $1.0 MM question: WILL SHE TELL YOU THE TRUTH ABOUT HOW SHE FEELS???

Here's another million dollar question: Does she really see & understand the truth about how she feels?

From some of the descriptions of conversations past my feeling has been G wants to feel a certain way, wants to believe she can feel a certain way. Not that she's dishonest just not understanding herself well enough within the context of a relationship with a man with children & the future looking different than she had in mind.