Dorry, yes there is. For the last couple of months I’m at a very “low” point with the ongoing circumstances and unresolved external circumstances in me and my H’s life (H’s unemployment; court-case; infertility). Actually the whole past 2,5 years since my H was unfairly dismissed from his job and we’re not able to go through with in-vitro-fertilization (because of the stress & financial implications of my H’s job loss) has been very difficult and overwhelming but the last few months has become especially overwhelming and I find it difficult to always “keep it up” and stay positive. We are still waiting for my H’s court-case after all this time and I wonder when (and if) he will get re-instated so that we can move forward and go on with our lives. I really hope this will be resolved before the end of this year.

I work at the same company my H was dismissed from and most of the staff in the company knows about my H’s case since my H was the Union-leader and victimized by Management because of it (main reason for his unfair dismissal). The day I received the e-mail from OM he expressed his “concern” about this ongoing issue and expressed his hope that everything will work out for us…and that’s how the conversation started and eventually leaded to discussions about the past.

Bob, I’ve never said me and my H can’t find other jobs, but just that it’s more difficult and unlikely because of high unemployment and affirmative action in this country. To be more specific: Affirmative action refers to the empowerment and employment of the “past disadvantaged people” e.g. black and colored people (me and my H are white). Therefore the unemployment amongst white people (especially white men) gets higher each year and so far it seems affirmative action will be kept as an ongoing process… As a result, more and more white graduated students are unable to find jobs in SA and move out of the country. To me personally, this is a very problematic issue. Many unqualified and inexperienced people are appointed in jobs just because they suit the affirmative action requirements. Yes, many posts are advertised and/or created in SA, but the population of the “affirmative action groups” in this country is so high (and gets higher) that this issue stay unresolved.

If my H and I get the opportunity to move and work at another city we will. In the meantime we can’t do anything until my H’s court case and job situation gets resolved (see the link I’ve posted to you in my previous post). We’re also not living close to one of the big cities like Jo’burg, Capetown and Durban where most of the job opportunities reside.

Howzit Suzet*,

I just wanted to offer my support and concern for you. You helped me so very much last year when I showed up here all frightened and unsure of myself. I will always be grateful. Please know I am praying for you, your H and your M.

eaglesoar

Suzet* sweetie....

[color:"red"] "Do you really think I should do that?"
[/color]

yes I do

with all my heart & prayers

Pep

Suzet* good woman ~~~~

[color:"red"] "I’m afraid of the consequences and the “can of worms” I will open with such an action… I don't think I’m strong enough to do that Pep… "
[/color]

Is that the message the Lord sent you Suzet* .... ????

Did your Lord say this to you ~~~> [color:"blue"] Suzet* .... you are too weak to do what you KNOW is the morally correct action ... so I will give you a pass this time. It is OK with me that you stay stuck in your cowardice & weakness. Me, your Lord God, has provided you Suzet* the frightened, with a free pass. I actually prefer that you remain weak and frightened.[/color]

Pep (with apologies to God, my Father)

Suzet

Have you ever looked at your coping skills? Your ability do deal with stresses? I know that was a HUGE factor to my affair, and unless I changed them, I would be bound to repeat the same escape coping behavior next time life got overwhelming.

Life got overwhelming for you and you turned to a fantasy...your coping skills... maybe head you in the right direction for your own recovery this time?

REALLY??? GOOD STUFF !

KEWL

We are ALL needing to learn the "good stuff"

please share with everyone here

the anonymous readers who are exactly in Suzet*s position would benifit as well.....

Pep

Suzet, this is an upsetting and disturbing time for you, I’m sure. Does the following quote adequately express the history of your relationship with this man?

My EA was never revealed to XOM’s W as well. If you read my signature line you’ll see I was involved in a e-mail friendship which became inappropriate and beginning stages of EA. The betrayal was mostly in my thoughts and feelings and the EA never reached the stage where we exchanged verbal, written and/or physical expressions of love towards each; discussed our spouses/marriages; had secret meetings and exchange gifts etc. For these reasons (and with the advice of my personal counselor at the time) my H & I decided not to tell OM’s W.

So, no mutually inappropriate conversations or behavior but now there has been an obviously highly inappropriate conversation. Could you possibly give some clarification as to what was said in terms of:

...in-depth conversations with OM have taken place about the past, feelings we’ve experienced at the time etc. We’ve spoken about things and feelings we’ve never admitted towards each other before, so actually it feels if this time I’ve crossed boundaries into a full EA (and not just inappropriate friendship than before).

What specifically was his response to your confession? This entire thing was via company email or in person?

Please, forgive the question, but I am hoping that your guilt over your own thoughts and feelings about him has been skewing your perception of the situation. It would be the best case scenario if you had been simply reading more into his interest in you than was warranted.

However, now that you've confessed the feelings and thoughts that you've nursed over the years, the problem is compounded. I’ve been on the receiving end of crushes a few times and it’s difficult. Niceness can been misinterpreted for interest and a simple comment or question can set off a horrible confession. Once the beans are spilled, what on earth do you say? How do you get out of it gracefully without offending the person? I have always tried to “be nice” but firm and then I ditch the person as much as I can, for as long as I can.

This is the case of an older man being flattered by a younger woman, Suzet so maybe his response was different than mine would have been but I really hope that you can clarify step by step what was said….I hope doing so will help you to understand what to do next. KB

Yes, it does. However, after the EA ended and OM send me an e-mail a few months after the 1st NC-letter was send, I’ve explained to him that I can’t have contact or be friends with him again because previously I’ve became emotionally too attached & attracted to him. So although I never use the word “love” OM did know that I’ve developed inappropriate feelings for him. In that same letter I’ve repeated my stance on NC again and the damage and pain which was done to me, my H and M as a result of the “inappropriate friendship” and that I feel ashamed through God that it happened. OM responded that he understands and that he will respect my decision of NC. He left me alone for a very long time after that 2nd letter but then he started to send e-mail again every few months to hear how I am or he would make small-talk when we have bumped into each other. I was able to handle such sporadic contact and felt totally in control of my feelings until I received OM’s candid e-mail last week.

The entire thing was via company e-mail. OM sent me an e-mail with a password. I immediately knew the password – it was the same password we sometimes used during e-mails conversations back then.

In the 1st e-mail OM said me last week, he said the following regarding the past (I've translated from my mother tongue into English so please excuse any bad grammar):

[color:"blue"] “I still remember the letter you send me long ago about your feelings and regret… I still have many questions from my side and I will always wonder… But you didn’t want to speak to me anymore at the time and I respected that… Will still do so if that’s what you want. It will just be something that will always stay “unclosed” in my books… I just know there will never be such a true friend like you for me ever again.” [/color]

I responded:

[color:"green"] ”About what happened in the past and the questions you still have… I also had questions, but it’s better to not discuss certain things and leave it in the past where it belongs. It’s better that way… It’s because what happened in the past (the feelings and emotional bond which developed) that I know I can’t allow myself to be friends with you or have regular conversations with you ever again. It’s better that way for both of us. I also know my husband want it that way and expect it from me and I never want to violate his trust in me again… That’s very important to me.

Since you have brought up the subject, I can just mention the way you have treated me back then and the way you have ended the friendship (by referring to it as a “nice game”) have hurt me terribly and it took me a very long time to “overcome” it. When I’ve received your letter back then about the “nice game” it was like a bucket of ice water thrown into my face and it has caused me many tears… It took me so long to “overcome” it because I’ve cared for you very much and I have trusted you…and I could not believe you’ve said something like that.

I don’t hold it against you anymore and probably you had your own good reasons for saying that, so let’s leave it in the past”. [/color]

OM responded:

[color:"blue"] ”You know “Suzet”, for the first time in years I finally have the courage to tell you something… After today I may NEVER have the courage again…

The “game” I referred to was a way to protect you and myself. I was “confused” and didn’t know what to do. I remember that day you said you told your husband you will still be friends with me. Originally I viewed what was between us as just friendship, but that day you told me what happened…and that we can’t speak anymore…I have realized with a SHOCK that something much more serious has developed between us…that I loved you very much. I though you felt the same way. I also had many tears about you… It wasn’t something you and I searched for…it just happened. Something inside me was “dead”…and I also thought about your suffering and the fact that you told me I don’t know how difficult it is to try and explain these things to your marriage partner…

It was HE!! for me just to survive during that time…and I can just imagine how you must have felt.

We each have our own lives and families and maybe I’m suppose to thank you for staying “strong”. Maybe it is better that way… All I want to know, “Did you love me too?” I read between the lines…but I want to have a No or Yes answer…

I know after today I would not be able to speak about these things again. I would “hold back” and just continue. I’m just sorry things has changed and that I couldn’t support you in your hours of struggle (he was referring to my H’s job loss) like you did for me. This is also something I will NEVER forget. So many times you have spoken courage into me during my darkest hours… And I’m not there for you…

Just know that although we never see each other and never speak…I always think of you and I ‘carry' you without having contact with you. “[/color]

By this time I felt overwhelmed by the conversation and responded with the following:

[color:"green"] ”Thanks for your openness and honesty…I realize it takes much courage to admit and say these things. I understand now why you have acted that way back then…and I have complete understanding now. I always thought that was the reason, but was never 100% sure.

To answer your question: YES, I felt just like you (loved you very much) and this conversation has started to open old feelings… And that’s the reason why it’s better to keep our distance and to keep contact to an absolute minimum.”[/color]

OM responded:

[color:"blue"] “Thanks also to you for your openness and honesty. I know you mean it sincerely and I also understand you better now. I respect your decision and will give you some space again, not because I WANT to, but because you ask for it.”[/color]

The next Monday after I have confessed to my H, I have sent OM a NC-letter on e-mail and made it clear that – after the recent conversation - minimum contact (like I originally asked for) will not be sufficient and that there can be NO deliberate contact EVER again. Not even on days like birthdays, New Year after the company has opened…NOTHING. I've said to him that this decision is the best for both of us but most importantly for my personal relationship with my Creator and marriage partner (and the same for him).

That same day he responded with the following on my NC-letter:

[color:"blue"]"It's not my intention that you must give up your Creator of marriage partner for me. But you and I are "soul mates" and that will never change. If it haven't changed in 3 years it will never change. Maybe if you have given it some time you would discover that we could exist in our "separate" lives. Maybe the feminine intuition is stronger and you feel the magnetism is stronger than I realize. I am TERRIBLY sorry that I now lose my "soul mate" AGAIN. I don't understand why you want to avoid me so seriously, but I will accept your decision. Send me a photo then I can at least speak with the photo. Then I will not "bother" you again. The photo is my last wish. Do all the bad stuff in you life also happen on Mondays?"[/color]

I felt SO MAD after I received the response above (for obvious reasons). I printed it out to show my H and then immediately deleted the e-mail from my system. I however kept a copy of last weeks conversations, my NC letter and his response to it on a separate file. Yesterday me and H decided to send the contents of it to OMW should OM try to deliberately contact me again. The contents will speak for itself.

Jen, I agree with Pep. Please share here on this forum. I'm not going to e-mail you.

On Monday you posted the following:

I got too mad to post any more.

Please explain what you meant by that...

Forward this thread to his wife. RIGHT now.

Wouldn't YOU want to know if your H 'carried' an OW always ?

Bob, of course I would...but it's not an easy decision...

I don't have his W's e-mail address or any contact information for her at this stage, but I can make a plan to get a hold of it should me and H decide to follow through with this.

Suzet

What is your plan to prevent reactivation of your EA without exposing to OM W when your best efforts to restrain yourself so clearly haven't worked ?

Suzet I have your MARRIAGE' safety at heart and can speak detachedly as you cannot. Your marrige is a serious perpetual risk unless OM feels consequences of his EA. THAT and his wife needs to know DESERVES to know.
The 'special circumstances' you always used to defend your miled response to your EA in the past have proven to be hopelessly insufficient.

What do you fear if you tell OM W ? That she will be angry ? Certainly. That she miught hate you ? Perhaps. That OM might be angry at you ? GREAT ! The beginning of the end of your EA !!

There is NO downside to exposing to OMW and I suspect you know that. The time hs long passed that you can contain the consequnces of your EA suzet. You must kill the dragon, not cage it.

ALL blessings. You CAN do this in faith !!! Praying for you Suzet...

Suzet

I am glad you have decided to post still. The experience we xWS have had are sometimes, even if for just ONE person, very important and can help that one person. That makes it worthwhile.

Hope you and your H will work to remake a new relationship and that it will all work out fine. Sometimes some of us just have to learn the hard way! Been there!

will pray for you both.

Hi Suzet,

Something occurred to me, especially after reading Stan-ley’s post to you in the Recovery forum. He wrote: “This also raises the issue that perhaps these OMs are never forgotten and that the only reason the marriage thrives is because WW simply makes the sacrifice to live her life with no OM. A very sad and disconcerting picture for anyone that has been betrayed.” Renewed contact by MB FWS understandably makes some MB BS worry about their own situations.

Earlier on this thread, you wrote: “...I thought it was okay to still allow some minor and sporadic contact (like e-mails on birthdays; “Hallo, how are you?” in the passing etc.)”

I’m just offering some food for thought. If “minor and sporadic contact” have been ongoing, then you actually haven’t been through withdrawal. I know you believed you were able to handle it, but in a sense, you have been “cake eating” all along. Any ongoing contact is a “fix.” You know how he is doing, what he is doing, if he’s still interested (smiles at you a certain way), etc.

That’s different from “renewed” contact, which is why people keep trying to convince you to change jobs. I’ve read your reasons for staying in your job, but staying hasn’t been healthy for you or your M. You were looking for a job when you found that one, right? I hope some positive changes happen for you and your H’s job situations soon. It’s written here over and over (not just to you, but to everyone)- Recovery really can’t begin until NC is in place.

Also, I'm concerned that OM is a predator. What he's been trying hasn't worked, so now he's trying a new angle. I know you've been struggling with whether or not to tell his W. Have you ever told him you would tell his W if he doesn't stop?

I’m still praying for you and your H.
God bless,
Rose

But I can direct you to the "most helpful" book when times get really tough. That would be the book of Job. The most helpful "series" of books is the Holy Bible. It's relatively easy to "let God be in control" when things are chugging along nice and smoothly. It's something else when the bottom falls out of our lives and WE FEEL a portion of the pain that Jesus bore for us. It is crushing, it is real, it sometimes self-inflicted and sometimes totally "unwarranted." There is ONE lifeline that is unbreakable and that can get us through anything regardless of the outcome in THIS world...."...nevertheless Father, not my will but yours be done." End of Foreverhers quote


Dear Foreverhers,

Just wanted you to know, your ministry of god's word touched my heart.


k.d.'s heartbreak

However, something that might have contributed (with regards to my H, M and our personal circumstances) is that I’ve always had and still have a very deep need for deep communication and total openness & honesty about feelings, thoughts, emotions, experiences etc. My whole life these things have been a very deep need for me and because of our different temperaments and personalities, my H doesn’t have the same needs for these EN’s than me. The candid e-mail and honest sharing I received from OM’s last week was a major trigger. end of suzet quote


Suzet,

Sorry to say, but what you posted sounded a lot to me like FW Fog Babble.

No excuses because husband didn't provide a need.

That is just a cop out.

Here's your 2x4


k.d.'s heartbreak

.

... but confess she did

.