Was there any devastation before? I am not sure that Suzet* has yet experienced any devastation. Maybe I have her story wrong.

Suzet* says she is now in withdrawal from an affair that she has said never actually happened to begin with. The fantasy is all she has. I can see why she doesn't want to kill it. I had one real "fantasy" (or maybe dream) and, when I moved to Saudi, I had to face the fact that my dream would never happen (not affair-related BTW - this was personal). It was really hard for me. I can't imagine having to give up "true love".

I think Stanley se dió al clavo. I think Suzet would be better off now if she had actually had the affair. Then she could separate fact from fiction.

I am certain that Suzet's husband was devasted then and now...

Suzet, please tell me you are going to do the only right thing here for all parties involved, and tell the OMW...Will you do that Suzet?

Mrs. W

Correct… And this whole experience is/was devastating to me too (now more than then). I feel like a big fool. I feel embarrassed and disappointed in myself. OM tried to manipulate me with his “words” …and I allowed it and fell for it…AGAIN…at the cost of my dear H who I love, respect, appreciate and admire more than anything or anyone else in this world.

I want to make something very clear:

The reason I’ve exposed to my H and ended contact with OM in spite of the relapse and residual feelings which has returned after the e-mails…

The reason I stand by my H through “thick and thin” (and he by me)…

The reason me and my H are still married to each other…

is NOT (as suggested by Stanley) because “I’ve made the sacrifice to live my life with no OM” (how absurd) or because my H has decided to “settle for second best”… No, the reason is:

Because we WANT to be married to each other and because we want the best for our relationship with God and our M… Because my H is the only person I want to share my life with...

When me and my H have taken our vows in front of the altar we’ve promised ”for better and for worse”…and this is what we still doing and WANT to do…

My H has the type of integrity, values and capacity to love I’ve never seen or experienced ever in my life before. I have always respected and appreciated my H, but after the recent incident, my love, respect, appreciation and admiration for him has grown enormously. No one will know how difficult it was to expose last weeks e-mail conversations to my H…I literally felt SICK before I did it…but I know I had to…and I’m glad I did…

Stanley, on In Recovery you’ve posted:

False… let me tell you something you don’t know Stanley… The fact that my H lost his job is because he (and another person who have lost his job with him) was the only two people who had the GUTS and INTEGRITY to “whistle blow” and expose the corruption, intimidation, nepotism, victimization etc. which was going on at Management level of this institution at the time… And my H did this in spite of the fact that he knows he would risk losing his job…but he knows he had to do it for a greater course...for the sake of righteousness… And as a result of the action my H took at the time, the person (Head of the Institution) who was responsible for all this (job losses, criminal actions etc.) was finally arrested a while ago. For this I admire and respect my H greatly…and this is part of the reason I’ve previously said my H has the type of integrity and moral values I have never seen or experienced before... In my eyes NO MAN can even BEGIN to measure up with my H.

You know Stanley, at this stage I feel undeserved of my H’s love, support and understanding…and yes probably I deserve “the pink slip” as you (and others) have suggested, but you know what? My H thinks I’m worth it…he thinks I deserve a second chance…and that’s ALL that matters to me.

This is not a decision I can take on my own Mrs. Wondering. This weekend my H and I had a long conversation about this and we decided not to go through with such an action on this stage. In stead, we decided that should OM try to contact me again, I will threaten to expose to his W. Should OM then still not abide to NC, me and my H will follow through with the exposure.

Suzet,

Congratulations on being so lucky as to have a gem of a husband who loves you in spite of your tremendous mis-steps and mistakes in caring for his feelings and your marriages. I realiz you are trying to make it right.

I can't really imagine why your husband would agree to such a plan, and I'm not trying to criticize or disrespect you or devalue your point of view, but I only hope to make you re-think your position very carefully to find the true motivation for this choice.

Your husband has shown, (and you have noted it and see it, yourself) that he is tremendously protective of you and your feelings, and loves you a great deal.

So his motivation for taking this position is likely to be based on wanting to spare you embarrassment and anxiety.

However, your own motivattions are not so pure, I think Suzet. I was impressed by the level of disrespect you showed your husband by your reply-letter to this man who blatantly tried to interfere with your husband's entire life and well-being. And you coddled him with kid gloves. I didn't need Stanley to spell that out to me, but he was right on the money. You are protecting yourself and this other man, but you are not protecting your husband, and you are treating the other man's wife particularly coldbloodedly. If she could know what her husband has been up to, she would have every chance of fixing her marriage and having the marriage and loving fulfilling relationship with her husband that she deserves. She deserves to be given the choice.

Do you know that the percentage of wives who absolutely forgive their husbands is very high compared to the percentage of husbands who forgive their wives? So you are twice as lucky as most wives who find themselves in your position, and you would in fact be delivering more harm to this man by not telling his wife.

of course if he stays in an unhappy situation never being given the chance to fight for his marriage as a team with his wife, it will keep him hanging on to any shred of hope with you, eh?

take care.

NEVER, BUT NEVER THREATEN EXPOSURE SUZET...Forewarned is Forearmed...If you do this, OM will simply spin the story to his wife that you are some nutjob, and she won't believe you, rendering exposure completely useless...

You do realize that Dr. Harley advises that the OTHER PERSON'S SPOUSE MUST ALWAYS BE TOLD, right?

Suzet, you've been around here a long time...You know that it's a very narrow path, you see the result that not following that path has brought you to, can you please explain for me the logic that you and your husband have used to arrive at such a conclusion now?

Mrs. W

I'd guess it is the "logic" of the "comfort zone".

Telling OMW makes things just awfully *real*.

Suzet has been able to hide behind an "almost" affair and has never really had to be exposed to the sort of humiliation and public loss of reputation involved in exposures of *real* affairs.

I ask Suzet..if OMW had the honor of reading your emails..do you think she would consider them merely inappropriate..but not over the line?

Or..

Do you think she would feel threatened and shocked at her husbands behavior and your own..as though both she and your H did not exist or at least didn't count.

There is not one single justicfication for not exposing to her.

Not one.

Except this.

"I..Suzet..am not willing to pay with my job or reputation or personal discomfort for what I have done..I will not..WILL NOT take that loss."

Rationalization after rationalization only makes this conclusion more stark.


Personally I would love to hear your defense regarding your continued refusal to invoke *real* NC..and your refusal to let his WIFE know what HER HUSBAND has been up to.

I haven't had a good laugh yet today.

Other couples have made tremendous sacrifices both personal and financial in order to right the wrongs..yet you shrink from it.

Are we wrong to do so? Or are you unique and special and it just isn't required of you?

It is quite apparent that you are more concerned for your own comfort than you are about doing what is right..BECAUSE it is right.

How many years of your life are you going to lose to this nonsense?

Yes, that's correct.

An escalation...HUGE escalation. In fact, the e-mails we exchanged recently were on a total different level than before. The e-mails we shared a few years back was inappropriate in some ways (flirting and subtle joking etc.) but we never crossed boundaries into admitting feelings of love towards each other...which we did this time.

Poijitos, if you want to know more about my story please read the link in my signature line e.g. "My Story". It might help to give you better background on what happened.

Poijitos, please read my previous post. Yes, I do want my M and H. There is something you don't understand:

The fact that I developed "feelings of love" and "fell in love" with OM back then...and the fact that some of those feelings has returned with the recent contact, DOESN’T mean that I would like to be with OM or that I even like or admire him as a person (which I don’t)… The book “Road Less Traveled” by M. Scott Peck was very insightful and especially the following extracts helped to give me perspective regarding this (please pay attention to the parts I've put in bold since this will reflect my own feelings):

[color:"blue"] Of all the misconceptions about love the most powerful and pervasive is the belief that ‘falling in love’ is love or at least one of the manifestations of love. It is a potent misconception, because falling in love is subjectively experienced in a very powerful fashion as an experience of love.

Falling in love is not an act of will. It is not a conscious choice. Not matter how open to or eager for it we may be, the experience may still elude us. Contrarily, the experience may capture us at times when we are definitely not seeking it, when it is inconvenient and undesirable. We are as likely to fall in love with someone with whom we are obviously ill matched as with someone more suitable. Indeed, we may not even like or admire the object of our passion, yet, try as we might, we may not be able to fall in love with a person whom we deeply respect and with whom a deep relationship would be in all ways desirable.

This is not to say that the experience of falling in love is immune to discipline. Psychiatrists, for instance, frequently fall in love with their patients, just as their patients fall in love with them, yet out of duty to the patient and their role they are usually able to abort the collapse of their ego boundaries and give up the person as a romantic object. The struggle and suffering of the discipline involved may be enormous. But discipline and will can only control the experience; they cannot create it. We can choose how to respond to the experience of falling of love, but we cannot choose the experience itself.

Love is not a feeling. Many, many people possessing a feeling of love and even acting in response to that feeling act in all manner of unloved and destructive ways.
It is not only possible but necessary for a loving person to avoid acting on feelings of love. I may meet a woman who strongly attracts me, whom I feel like loving, but because it would be destructive to my marriage to have an affair, I will say vocally or in the silence of my heart, ‘I feel like loving you, but I am not going to’. My feelings of love may be unbounded, but my capacity to be loving is limited. I therefore must choose the person on whom to focus my capacity to love, toward whom to direct my will to love.

True love is not a feeling by which we are overwhelmed. It is a committed, thoughtful decision. Genuine love implies commitment and the exercise of wisdom. When we are concerned for someone’s spiritual growth, we know that a lack of commitment is likely to be harmful and that commitment to that person is probably necessary for us to manifest our concern effectively.

Genuine love is volitional rather than emotional. The person who truly love does so because of a decision to love. This person has made a commitment to be loving whether or not the loving feeling is present. If it is, so much the better; but if it isn’t, the commitment to love, the will to love, still stands and is still exercised.

The common tendency to confuse love with feelings of love allows people all manner of self-deception. It is clear that there may be a self-serving quality in this tendency to confuse love with the feeling of love; it is easy and not at all unpleasant to find evidence of love in one’s feelings. It may be difficult and painful to search for evidence of love in one’s actions. But because true love is an act of will that often transcends ephemeral feelings of love, it is correct to say, ‘Love is as love does’.[/color]

Here is the thread I posted long ago about "Road Less Travelled" and the full extracts on love.

Poijitos, back in 2003 I have posted a thread on the most important lessons I’ve learned and my perceptive then and prior to my EA. One of my perceptions before my EA was that:

“if you truly love your spouse, there can never be a place in your heart for someone else. If you develop feelings for someone else, you don’t really love your spouse.”

After my EA I have learned that the above perception was false and that:

“it IS possible to truly love your S and at the same time have feelings for someone else. The theory of the love bank explains this phenomenon very clearly.”

As stated by Scott Peck,

”My feelings of love may be unbounded, but my capacity to be loving is limited. I therefore must choose the person on whom to focus my capacity to love, toward whom to direct my will to love.”

And that person is my HUSBAND.

Suzet,

This is exactly the path I was urging you to take (POJA w/ your husband and come up with a plan you both agree on).

I wish you and your H all the best during this difficult time.

-HD

This is POJA at the expense of Suzet's husband(even though he doesn't realize it), the marriage and of course, the other victim that's being kept in the dark, OMW...

Do you think that a lie of omission is okay with God Suzet?

Mrs. W

This weekend my H and I had a long conversation about this and we decided not to go through with such an action on this stage. In stead, we decided that should OM try to contact me again, I will threaten to expose to his W. Should OM then still not abide to NC, me and my H will follow through with the exposure.

This is such cowardly and ill advised conflict avoiding rubbish I will not legitimise it with a critique.

You have the chance to do it RIGHT this time Suzet yet so far you have spectacularly dropped it on your toe.

I suggest you read some Harley and shape up. Fast.

Suzet...I know your husband agreed to this, but many husbands in this situation agree in order to appease the spouse they may be loosing.

YOUR OM has NOT SHOWN the ABILITY to NOT CONTACT YOU - you have said so yourself...he drops the occasional email - birthdays...this WILL continue...as he has NO concequences to doing it....YOU KNOW the OM WILL contact you again...

The sad thing is - it will be possibly months down the road - when things are going good and you are going to rehash all this THEN. DO YOU WANT TO FEEL THAT LATER IN YOUR SECOND RECOVERY???? DO YO WANT TO RISK WITHDRAWEL AGAIN????

YOU ARE CHANCING CONTACT - and CONTACT has been what has hurt you....

Why not do EVERYTHING in your power to PREVENT ANY CHANCE of contact??? Instead of - well we will wait and see and If he does it...

Telling my exOMW was the ONLY way contact stopped...it stopped for good 18 months ago - 1 month into recovery, and I have not heard, seen or caught wind of the exOM ever since....but until that was done...he found his ways to make sure "I was okay" or "how I was doing".

Suzet - PREVENTATIVE measures...or this may just well happen again....this is not about him and his wife - that is FOR THEM to work on...this is about YOU and YOUR HUSBAND...

Harley's EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS!

well

I am disappointed

but certainly

not
surprised

so your BH was a job-site "whisle-blower", who was willing to sacrifice his position at work in order to "do the right thing"

where is that "whistle-blower" fellow today ? The guy who stands up for what is right?

instead ... he plans to threaten to blow the whisle ... if the OM tries to make another love connection with his WANDERING-WIFE who he ADORES !!!

Does this seem incongruous to anyone else that a once-cuckold husband would NOT take ACTION to extinquish the infidelity flame 100% when given the chance ???

seems extraordinarily odd to me

Suzet* hunny ... did you argue the point HARD & furious with your BH that exposure to the OM wife would put a nail in the affair coffin & that zombie would never walk again?

How hard did you fight for exposure Suzet* ???

I am wondering ... if I took a poll here and asked the betrayed men what they would prefer to do in this circumstance ... what percentage would answer ... do nothing but "threaten" at the next invasion into his home .... strange ... smells like your BH is not the "whisle-blower" when it comes to standing up for his own marriage .... how odd !

It seems to me Suzet* ... that by agreeing to non-exposure ... your BH has agreed to leave YOU vulnerable ... why does he not choose to PROTECT HIS WIFE ????

what did you do to influence this Suzet* ???

Your back is NOT protected here.... no ... it is not protected at all.
Pep

... or

Suzet*

go back & tell your betrayed husband

that you remain vulnerable to an affair with this OM until his wife is invited to the dance

you are so wrong Suzet*

and your credibility as a reformed WW is slipping away

when you expose to OM's wife ... you redeem yourself

do it

Pep

Suzet,
Please do it.

If you warn him, he will go home and tell her some crazy from work is calling wives telling them their husbands are having email affairs. Is that what you want?

POJA HOW you will tell - not IF you will tell.

The betrayed spouse has a right to know.

Suzet*

as a wife who has made peace with the OW from the past

I ask you

do this in honor of every betrayed wife on this site

we are all in the sisterhood

but if you refuse to do this exposure

you have removed yourself from my sisterhood

I value my sisters enough to be honest with them

do you?

Pep

Hi Suzet*
I can understand why you don't want to *rock the boat* and expose to OMW. It will be messy, painful, and probably make everyone's life a living he11 for some time to come. Right now, things between you and H are somewhat stable, and you feel like you've reached a POJA.

Just remember that folks like Pep, Bob and the rest are not suggesting you expose b/c they want you to feel more pain. You've know some of these people for years, and probably consider them friends. They are advising you b/c they see that you've used your expert understanding of MB principles to twist reality and win the debate with your H.

Your H is probably desperate for things to work out, and is deferring to your MB knowledge. Please use it the way you would advise anyone else. You KNOW your feelings for the OM are not appropriate, and they NEVER will be. For you to affair-proof your M, THERE MUST BE NC. You know this.

I've always valued your opinions in my case and many others. You clearly have spent the time learing how MB principles work, when applied properly. It's just that you've let a teensy blind spot turn into a HUGE issue. In essence, these little emails over the years have made NC a farce. Now, the little emails are beautiful love letters, and threaten your M in a serious way.

Please let the OMW know that her M is under attack. Apologise for your role, but you MUST do this for your own sake. I wish you all the strength you need to get through this. You CAN do it.

Suzet:

Your 2uotes from Peck above provide probably the best explanation of the fact that love is a choice and not a feeling of anything I've seen.

Consider, though, the powerful position you are in. One that could have great positive impact on at least 4 people's lives: Yours, your H's, the OMW, and even the OM.

If you expose 2 the OMW, even 2uoting Peck 2 her as you did here, with the explanation that this is what you and your H have learned from this experience, I'd say you were being loving 2ward her.

If, on the other hand, you stuff this again, you are making a decision 2 continue 2 undermine her personal growth and her ability 2 make her marriage better and safer than it has ever been.

The OM will be free 2 perpetrate his selfish behavior on someone else, perhaps indefinitely, because you chose not 2 help his W by alerting her 2 his poor choice-making abilities.

-ol' 2long

Pep is 100% correct; she took the words right out of my mouth. The H already was a whistle blower. Telling OM’s wife would be a piece of cake.

I suspect Suzet is advising H that telling the W is not a good idea. Sorry for the DJ, but there seems to be no other explanation.

This relationship between OM and Suzet was always described as an “inappropriate friendship”. Suzet always stayed away from the term EA. Nevertheless, she finds herself in the throes of deep withdrawal and admitting she loves OM in the emails. All of this after the passage of enough time to end withdrawal of most WWs that had full-blown affairs with all the bells and whistles.


I think Suzet is a romantic and she thrives on the concept of “impossible love”. This is a classic trait of 19th century romantics. The pain of not being with the loved one is a badge of honor.

I am also deeply hurt by realizing that some OMs can have such a pull in some women with "3rd rate B movie cheap dialogue". If Suzet is still in love with OM; then her H is not meeting that specific need that she has. If this is still the case I would suggest another angle. Let me be frank. My wife’s affair ended over two years ago. If ever discover she had the same feelings of Suzet I could not accept that. For me that would be a sign that the marriage HAS TO END. It would mean that I did my best and that she still loves the OM. Why should I keep trying? What is the point?

Suzet, I am wondering if you are worried that your job would be in jeopardy if the correspondence with the OM were to be revealed to your superiors. It is quite clear that the man didn’t have inappropriate interest in you UNTIL you revealed yours to him via the NC letter. It does have the appearance of a setup in some ways but I do feel that it is a matter of perception.

. Since your H as a whistle blower (right or wrong), is already not considered a team player in your company or industry, is it a possibility that you would be viewed as a troublemaker by proxy? Is this a consideration in your decision? KB

To pick up from Stanley's point, if Suzet* convinced her H that exposing is the wrong action to take, then it is credible that Suzet* wishes to keep the door open for OM to again communicate.

Stanley is onto something with the notion of unrequited love I believe. His unrequited love for Maud Gonne caused William Butler Yeats to write an impressive library of poety and won him the Nobel Prize. Unrequited love is powerful stuff indeed.

Suzet*, I am a relative newbie here and cannot speak with such conviction and fervor about MB principles as many of my MB friends, so I will resort to common sense: exposre is the only logical response to renewed OM contact. Any action short of exposure puts OM in front of your H.