[color:"red"] EGG [/color] [color:"blue"]ZAK [color:"red"] LEE [/color] [/color]

calling the OM's wife does NOT
put Suzet*s JOB in jeopardy

just her affair !!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Pep

Suzet .. you were insulted horribly... the same as Kiwi was when she had an err in judgement.

It's truly sad..that this community emotionally disowns their own like cannibals on a feeding frenzy.

How sad..that the decisions made by you and your H .. (afterall isn't that's what really counts?) aren't acceptable to this community of naysayers.

If it wasn't for the fact that I know there are people genuinely hurting over these issues... I'd have laughed myself through this entire thread. DJs flying at speeds faster than the speed of light.

You've been preached to, insulted, name called, threatened, coerced, and rejected .. I'm sorry that this community has an inability to understand that you have NO legal, moral, or ethical obligation to UPHOLD ANY ONE'S EXPECTATIONS HERE.

I wish you the best .. and I hope that you can again find peace and happiness...and I'm sorry this community... that's you've supported endlessly...has turned their backs on you... in your time of need... claiming it's for your "greater good".

Truly.. sad... as well as a cop out. I HURT you...because I care about you. I wonder how many abused have heard that line once or twice in their life.

[color:"red"] READY?

here goes .... [/color]

This is the most I've been insulted and attacked in my whole life. Having another woman's husband come on to me & cheapen me, was not nearly as insulting as this pro-marriage advice.I will not expose myself to this any longer because the truth hurts. The name calling and the way my words are twisted are just unbelievable. I cannot get away with lying to myself with all this insulting truthfulness.

Shame on me for confessing to this forum in the first place and be honest with these boards… Don't worry, I have permanently sworn off honesty !!!I should have known better than to be honest on a marriage building board…

I’m done with these forums. Good Bye everyone. I will be reading, and perhaps posting under a pseudo nic in the future. Until then, I am going to TOW forum.

[color:"red"] NOW THAT will get some response !!!

Pep [/color]

Suzet .. you were insulted horribly...

I agree

she was insulted horribly by ~anyone~ who thinks so little of her

who would that be?

people like the OM who thinks so little of her ... assuming she would not mind a married man sending love letters to a married woman ...

and who else thinks so little of her ??? anyone who lets he lie to herself ... like YOU perhaps?

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I believe Suzet's tipping point was Noodle's post, but all I have to say is...

Wow! Lots of disrespectful judgements being hurled around here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I've only seen a few (mostly old-timers) give Suzet any real constructive advice.

The rest are just name-calling and hurling insults at someone who had the guts to come out and tell everyone here that she's not infallible.

I would think that while we are on this forum we could conduct a debate and an exchange of ideas in a civilized manner.

I know we all post here through the eyes of our own experiences (I'm just as guilty as everyone else). We all know that in Suzet's case, because she has demonstrated continued weakness towards the OM, that Dr. Harley would likely recommend that she separate from him and take those "extraordinary measures" to ensure no future contact.

We can encourage her to do this (as some of you have done), but after she and her husband decided on a particular course of action we can't punish her, call her or husband a "coward" or "victimizer", etc.

We should not push this or any other of our own agendas on Suzet by demanding that she instead do "this" or "that" after her and her husband made an agreement on what to do.

Demands never work in a marriage. Ever.

And while none of us are "married" to Suzet, I feel that one of the things this forum gives us is an opportunity to "practice" our Marriage Builders concepts on others, and to refine them - one of them being to how to resolve conflicts and avoid love busters.

Those of you that are here hurling all of these insults, angry outbursts, and disrespectful judgements -- is what I see here how you all conduct yourselves at home with your spouses? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

-HD

remember folks, all we really know is what she has told us by posting here. I'm certain there is far more to the story....the real truth.

She says she has confessed to her husband, but we really don't know to what degree. She could have just said "he sent me an work email again." I have an idea she did not tell him how she replied with words of love and lust.

She probably didn't expose all the details to her husband because Suzet is looking out for herself and her husband may have insisted she quit her job!

There is usually far more to the story than what meets the eye in the posts here. Of course the FWW is going to post to make herself sound the best that she can. This is called FOG and justification!

Suzet rushed off coz it was getting HOT in here, not because she was being insulted. I'd personally discuss what I considered an insult, and not run away.

Oh Please. Enough of the superiority.

Post deleted by mimi1254

HD, the only "agenda" we should be pushing here is MARRIAGE BUILDER'S agenda. The only one I see here pushing their OWN agenda is you and Suzet, which is in direct contradiction to Marriage Builders principles. Had Suzet followed Dr. Harley's agenda a long time ago, she would not be in this position today. She may very well lose her marriage because this has dragged on for THREE PLUS YEARS since she has followed her "own agenda."

Time for her to follow MARRIAGE BUILDERS "agenda" for a change.

Many of us here care too much for Suzet to tell her what she wants to hear, as you seem to do, HD. I know it feels good to tell her what she wants to hear, but that is not helpful to her. It is the TRUTH that she is a "victimizer" and an adulterer, and there is no cause to bastardize the English language to make her feel better. We know it, she knows it. It is the ACT that is ugly, not the word that is used to describe the truth. That is not what we are here for, HD.

Suzet, just know that folks are telling you what you want to hear are not your friends. They don't give a damn if you make it or not, so they won't take a risk and tell you what you sorely need to hear. Why would they bother? They just want to be liked at any cost. Shame on them!

HRH Susan. Your pardon, Majesty. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I dunno, the whole thread is popping along so fast I cannot keep up.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

so true

EXACTLY!! This is EXACTLY how I acted when I first joined AA and someone had exposed my BULLCRAP and hit the mark. I WAS FURIOUS! And I stalked off in a huff. But guess what? It was always those honest people who got through to me. They were the ones who changed my life my making me take an honest look at myself.

So, I would calm down eventually and come back the next week and LISTEN.

I remember those people who cared enough to tell me what I NEEDED TO HEAR instead of what I WANTED TO HEAR, because they made the greatest impact on my life. They cared enough to risk my WRATH! To this day, I remember their words and I LOVE THEM. Those are the people who changed my life.

I don't even remember the jerks who blew smoke up my [censored] and just told me what I wanted to hear. They are a dime a dozen and are very forgettable.

Unfortunately, Suzet belongs to a forum where bullcrap has a short shelf life. Doublespeak does not work here. So sorry!

ML... I learn a lot from listening to you.

Thanks MEDC, I appreciate your posts too. They are straightforward and truthful. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am not pushing my own agenda on Suzet, and my advice about using the POJA with her husband to resolve this issue is NOT in contradiction to MB principles. I feel the POJA is the cornerstone of resolving all marital conflicts, and that it's the first place couples should start before taking any further actions unilaterally without their spouse's consent.


Like I said in my post, if Dr. Harley were here offering his advice he would likely recommend that Suzet take those "extraordinary measures" to ensure no future contact. Many here have told Suzet that would be the best thing for her, and I agree that it probably would. But we don't know the whole story, and if Suzet's husband did not have his "enthusiastic agreement" for her to quit her job today then they WERE following MB principles as it applies to THEM.


Of course the truth hurts. However, name-calling and disrespectful judgements are not what build love, or friendships for that matter. There are better ways to get the message across then what I've been seeing here.


Another disrespectful judgement...but hey, I'm a big boy. I can handle it. I'm not trying to "help" Suzet keep her affair going, and I'm not trying to tell her what she wants to hear because I have a "deep" need to be "liked." That's just simply ridiculous. All I was offering was a suggestion that could help keep her marriage going. She can take it or leave it, but it was directed at her, not anyone else.

And I do not feel that I have in any way offered to Suzet advice that is counter to MB Principles. That's my opinion. You have a right to your own.

So I guess we can just agree to disagree. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

-HD

Suzet has been here long enough to know EXACTLY what as going to be posted.

At the beginning of the thread she got loads of support.

Then as a few people chimed in to justify and her tone changed, the posts to her changed as well.

This is a marriage builders site- the principles we are using to DJ her, as you say, are the principles of MB- not TOW.

HD, you are sadly mistaken if you believe that POJA should be applied to the issue of no contact. It is not a negotiable issue and has never been presented as such by Dr. Harley. Anything that threatens the recovery of the marriage is NOT to be POJA'd and Dr. Harley has NEVER said so. In fact, he has stated unequivocally that ending contact is essential to the recovery of the marriage even if that means a move to another state or a career change. He does not mince words about this cornerstone issue.

So your "advice" that this should be POJA'd is your own "agenda" and not that of Dr. Harley's. And as we can see, Suzet has followed her own agenda, ignoring Dr. Harley's, at her own expense. What has happened here is exactly what Dr. Harley predicted.

We KNOW what Dr. Harley's advice is because he already told us:


And some more: How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS pg 177


Can't get any more CLEAR than that! Never does he say that this should be POJA'd.

And as far as "disrespectful judgments" on this thread, I suspect you feel that the TRUTH is a dj and that is your own personal problem. The last thing that Suzet needs right now is sugar varnished words that will help her continue on her "agenda." You won't find many people who will bastardize the English language in order to help Suzet feel good about what she has done or help her pursue patently destructive "agendas". That is not helpful to her and no one who really cares is going to do that. Someone who really cares is going to tell her what she NEEDS to hear, not what she WANTS to hear, and that is exactly what you are doing.

Really ... ?

Was that really necessary?

Really ... ?

What did you gain from that?

What personal gain or loss do I have invested in Suzet lying to herself?

Really ?

Impressive.

By all means... let's just keep kicking her.. !! Let the games continue... I apologize for offering up my own opinion.

I'll let the 2x4s continue ... it's none of my business anyway.

I just know that a marriage can't build...if one of it's shareholders is broken. But for the GREATER good..let's not try to fix her.. let's dismantle her !!!

Maybe after she's torn to nothing but a pile of rubble...she'll find the strength to do what she's being told.

The thread keeps going and going.. I do hope she's lurking.. and I do hope that in the end of it all... she and her H get through this okay.

You can call it a tuna fish sandwich, be we can see thats exactly what you are doing. You are not my husband, HD, and I am not in a program of recovery with you so please quit trying to squelch discussion by whining "DJ!" That won't work with me.

You can see with your own eyes what has transpired in Suzet's marriage over the years, yet here you are actually ENCOURAGING her - a very confused woman - to continue this fateful path by misusing the concept of POJA. And we are supposed to believe you are her "friend?" She is on a liferaft and you just handed her an ANCHOR!

You must be kidding!

She is confused and upset is trying her best to avoid doing the right thing, and what do you do? You offer her a path to ****** by saying she can save her marriage by POJAing a solution that WE KNOW does not work.

That, my friend, is clearly telling her what she WANTS to hear, not what she NEEDS to hear.

That "solution" has brought her to this fateful place today. Calling it "POJA" will not change that TRUE FACT.


Do you honestly believe that telling her it is ok to continue working with the OM will keep her marriage "going?" You know, POJA will not make a DESTRUCTIVE CHOICE a positive one. It is not a magic method that turns destructive elements into positive ones.