That's the point though. Suzet wants OM pining after her otherwise she would expose to OMW and establish NC

OR maybe Suzet realizes full well that she could lose her job b/c she told the man that she has feelings for him, NOT the other way around. His response was inappropriate but he clearly had not even considered those types of feelings for her. She opened Pandora's box, so to speak.

Her livelihood may be at risk as a result. Her H does appear to consider this, but i could be wrong. In the end as a Christian, she is to submit to her husband so it truly is his call and his call alone.

DURING the affair and into withdrawl, no, not easy, but that's why NO CONTACT is paramount. After the affair is over, it *shouldn't* be that difficult. Sheesh, this gets me irked beyond belief.

I was a WS. I get it. Soul mate, love, unicorns and rainbows. Yeah, I remember -- in my HEAD, not in my heart, and it's EMBARRASSING, HUMILIATING and SO NOT ME at my core.

God, doesn't anyone have a sense of SHAME for the affair, or am I totally out here by myself?

And Suzet, the response you kinda/sorta wrote to what I wrote you (which was as heartfelt as I've gotten around here in a long, long time) totally dismissed what I said. I don't care if you THINK you can't find work again... you don't KNOW... and you aren't allowing God (or whomever you believe in) to PROVIDE for you and your family.

Affairs are messy. There are consequences. It's the way it is... you can fight it all you want... it's the truth.

If you truly want to get out of the grips of the affair - expose, quit the job, and trust your Higher Power. And in the meantime, do whatever it takes to PROVE to yourself and your HUSBAND that you mean business. What you've been doing so far hasn't worked... time to try something new, don't you think?

PS: I apologize to all FWS's that might be hurt by my asking if I'm out here by myself. I know that many of you truly regret your affairs.

Chalk it up to me getting angry. It happens, and I'm sorry if I hurt anyone in the process.

Actually I found your post to be comforting. Our recovery is not yet to the point where H expresses a lot of shame or remorse. It helps to know it eventually happens.

GBH...

Allow me to put your suspicions to rest on this...I count both ML and Pep as friends here, and believe that they feel the same about me; they both certainly interact with me in such a way...And as is obvious, from my signature, I am a FWW...Both of those ladies helped me TREMENDOUSLY by speaking harsh truths to me when I came here very foggy...Their posts to me then, I will never forget and always be grateful for...It was their blunt and truthful posts that put Mr. W and I in motion towards our first steps down the recovery path...

The question that you need to ask yourself is why are you so acutely sensitive to the style used by other posters? Really...I'm not putting you down...It is a purely rhetorical question, btw...I'm just suggesting you should perhaps question yourself...


Suzet...

Here's the deal...I am harsh with you because I see potential in you...I would not waste my time posting to you if I did not...And quite frankly, your story is HARSH...A FWW, who resumed contact because of not working the program, and then is BLATANTLY admitting that she is not going to work the program again...THAT IS NOT LOGICAL...IT IS MADDENING...IT IS ARROGANT...IT IS UNCARING...IT IS A TRAIN WRECK IN PROGRESS...AND SO MUCH MORE...

Here is what this looks like from a FWW perspective...

This looks very arrogant and self serving, and let me tell you why...

The stance that you and your husband appear to be choosing here says this...

-THE SAME RULES DON'T APPLY TO US...WE CAN SEE HOW OTHERS WOULD BE WEAK TO THEIR OM'S, BUT THAT SIMPLY ISN'T TRUE WHERE SUZET IS CONCERNED (which, I'm sorry, is laughable, in light of the recent exchanges between you and OM)

-YEAH, I KNOW THAT HARLEY SAYS IT'S A NARROW PATH, BUT WE HAVE SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES, SO THAT RULE DOESN'T APPLY TO US...(again, we see what choosing to deviate from that narrow path has caused)

Suzet, no one is telling you that you can't post on MB should you choose not to follow the MB program-it's a public, free forum...You know, of course, that you cannot offer your own marriage up as an example when posting to help others though, that wouldn't make sense, would it?

What we are telling you...WHAT YOUR OWN CURRENT SITUATION SHOULD BE TELLING YOU...is that when you fail to work the program, the program fails to work for you...makes perfect sense, no?

So choose as you wish here, but do not come here surprised when you have, yet again, fallen "prey" to your own weaknesses. Weaknesses, that you are failing to acknowledge by thwarting the professional, proven MB advice regarding this very thing...Further, even if you "feel" you have your own weaknesses "reined in", you are not taking into consideration the weaknesses of OM (and Suzet, your ability and the OM's ability to control those weaknesses has failed miserably-IF YOU CHANGE NOTHING, NOTHING CHANGES)...And yes, Suzet, your marriage will be effected in a very real way should OM contact you again...Why are you and your husband willing to risk your marriage so carelessly, if you truly hold it in such high esteem?

Could you please explain exactly how your job would be at risk should you expose to OMW? Perhaps I have missed something in your thread about that...Are you implying that OM would somehow "blow the whistle" on you for improper use of the company email system? Wouldn't he be equally culpable on that front? I don't really understand how exposure to OMW, which would provide your marriage with insurance against future unwelcomed OM advances, could jeopardize your job. An explanation regarding that would be most appreciated.

I understand that jobs in your country are few and far between. Are you actively seeking other employment? Sending resumes? You know, perhaps an added benefit for you in exposing to OMW, is that he might choose to leave the company based upon his wife's reaction to the betrayal...I know that you are thinking that that is unlikely due to the employment conditions in your country, but you can't completely rule out the possibility...Really, exposure to OMW could, in effect, "kill two birds with one stone"...

The bottom line is this Suzet, the MB program works...There are proven examples of it working all over this board...Your own situation has helped to further prove it, in fact, and yet you still choose to reject it...If your marriage is truly the most important thing to you, does that decision make logical sense?

And I'll share something else with you...Mr. W and I are working the MB program, and it is working for us, perhaps a little too well, because recently we have been pretty arrogant, we now realize, regarding an upcoming event. My 20th high school reunion is being held next summer, obviously, I would like to go. Mr. W and I talked about it, and felt that OM being there wouldn't be a problem for us. We had full intention of going. With thoughts like, "OM is not going to control our lives"..."Well, we will be there together after all"..."It was a big graduating class, it will be in a big room, we can avoid him"..."We will always take restroom breaks at the same time, so he can't approach either one of us without the other"...etc...I look at all that rationalizing now, all the time spent talking about OM and the possibilities of a confrontation, and shake my head...Why would we ever risk something so precious(us) over something so trivial(a high school reunion)...Why would we blatantly ignore the advice of a professional proven program like MB and foolishly, carelessly and pompously believe that we could somehow ignore the weakness that exists within two people who have been involved in an affair together-EA or PA...Suffice it to say, we will not be going. We are more important...But you know, you and Jen and your situations are what we used to bring ourselves down a notch...So thank you for allowing to learn from you...I hope you will allow yourselves to learn from this too...

Suzet, temptation is Satan's greatest power here on Earth...and powerful it is...Recognize your weakness to it and take the practical steps necessary to protect yourself against it...Did you ever think that the very reason that you are here at MB is divine in nature? Could it be God showing you exactly what practical tools you are meant to use to assist you in your battle against temptation? I hope that you and your husband will give this the extremely serious consideration that it deserves...

Mrs. W

P.S. I hear ya New Beginnings...I, too, have GREAT SHAME about what I did...Wouldn't go back for ANYTHING, EVER...NO MATTER WHAT...

Well said NB <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I hope she can find some way where she is to make it work...the odds in finding another job in SA are stacked against her, but she wont know if she doesn't try right?

You know, GBH, resentment is like taking poison and expecting the other person to die; and it sounds like you are brimming with poison. It is strictly your own issue and only hurts you. Good luck with that.

and

Mimi, I’m glad Grxannm, Pep, Bob and Mel (thanks you guys <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) have cleared this issue up for you. I can see how my choosing of the words “black” and “colored” can be viewed as very inappropriate (and even that I’m a racists) by some people in the US and others who are not living in my country. But I had to bring up this issue to give the people on here a better understanding of me and my H’s circumstances. It’s not a rationalization at all.

Mimi, in case you still wonder if I’m a racist and to clear out any misunderstandings, I just want to assure you it’s not the case (for both me and my H). My current direct line-manager is an African black man. He is the best manager I have ever worked for and I have the greatest loyalty, respect and admiration for him in his capacity as my line manager. Because of the AA program, most of the people I directly work with are colored or black and some I consider as very dear colleagues. Actually my direct colleague (who I work with me in the same office every day - an African black woman) I also consider as personal friend of mine.

Therefore I just want to make it clear to you that me and my H’s frustrations are not against the black and colored people in this country themselves, but against the South African Government and the way they have already abuse and misused the AA program in an attempt to discriminate (and further discriminate) against African white people in this country...even against the young graduated students and other young white people in this country (like me and my H) who was not responsible for the racial issues and problems in the "apartheidsera" when African whites was still governing this country.

Not good Bob. Please understand me and my H’s decision is circumstantial and not because we don’t believe in Harley’s principals.

Bob, I believe the fog have finally cleared for me after all these years and that this time I can not, CAN NOT and WILL NOT allow even the slightest contact from OM (which I did before the recent happenings). I’ve made it VERY CLEAR in my NC letter to OM that this time my decision is FINAL and PERMANENT (something I failed to do in my previous NC letter). Previously I had still allowed OM to send me greetings on birthdays and after New Year through e-mail and I realize now it was a big mistake… If I haven’t allowed that in the first place, everything wouldn’t have lead to the recent e-mails we exchanged. I do take COMPLETE NC very seriously this time and I will not, WILL NOT allow myself to make a 3rd mistake. If OM fails to abide to my NC request this time, me and my H WILL take further action.

I don’t deny anything Bob. As I’ve pointed out to you, me and my H decision is circumstantial.

I know Bob… And I haven’t referred to you at all when I’ve said that… You have always treated me with respect and I appreciate it.

No Bob – neither me nor my H believe exposing to OMW is the best thing to do in our current circumstances at this stage...not because we don’t believe in Harley’s principals…but because of reasons I’ve already pointed out on a post to Ms Wonderings. Of course I fear the shame of the consequences (any WW or FWW will) but this is not the main issue here. Please read this post to Mrs Wonderings in case you’ve haven’t read it.

I haven’t got my H to agree to anything…it was his decision and he is more against exposure than me at this stage. Yesterday I’ve posted that it DOES bother me that OMW doesn’t know… Please read my post of yesterday again.

Bob, I’ve never really felt “weak” or experienced a sudden “rush” of feelings towards OM the times I’ve bumped into him (actually I’ve experienced anxiety the times it did happen). It was his e-mails which were the problem and towards which I’ve shown a continuing weakness. It was his e-mails which have given me a sudden rush of “feelings” towards him – not the bump ins. I know this might sound strange and silly but it's true.

Committed, my H is fully aware of the recent e-mail exchanges between me and OM and the contents of those e-mails... Why would I have "taken the risk" to put those e-mails on here if my H wasn't aware of it? While my H knows exactly on which website I'm posting; my screenname and the name of the thread? That would be silly wouldn't it?

Shaden, thanks for your beautiful and encouraging post... I'm glad this thread has helped to clear up some doubts and questions in your own sitch. Sometime God uses our own errors and problems to help others and if mine has helped just ONE person here, I'm thankfull...

Hi Notonlywords - of course I still remember you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Sound if all is well with you!

Thanks for your post. I do 'listen' to what you're saying to me and appreciate what you've shared with me... Please know that I'm NOT ignorant about this whole thing.

Bigkahuna, not true… I’ve requested yesterday in general but now I’m specifically requesting from you:

Please don’t make ridiculous assumptions about me just because me and my H deviate from the Harley principles and have come to a decision which – due to personal circumstances - is not 100% in line with those principals. This is very disrespectful behavior IMO.

And o yes...I have established NC... Did you forgot about the NC letter I have send?

ToddAC, I do think there is a high probability that the 3rd contact might work this time (please see my post to Bob to understand why I'm saying this.) I see like BigK you have made a wrong assumption about me... The truth is that NO, I DON'T welcomes additional contact from OM. But you are free to believe what you want... This is a "free thinking" world.

Suzet

you said :

You said if I threaten to expose OM will simply spin the story to his wife that I am some nutjob, and she won't believe me, rendering exposure completely useless... But who says this will not happen anyway even if I expose without any forewaring? Who says OMW will believe the whole story in the first place?

If she doesn't believe it, even with the email trail you can show her, you will at least have done your best. OM GF in my sit was loth to believe at first but I sent evidence and she did believe me. You have this email trail. Evidence. an dit will make OM very reluctant to contact you again. h emight even hate you for it. Imagine that ?

This is a very slight justification for not exposing to her " I won't call the firefighters to my house fire because they might think I am a fake caller".

We all know most BS’s don’t want to believe they have a cheating spouse when they are first told and since mine was an EA with no concrete evidence (except the e-mail conversations I’ve saved in a Word Document) it will be so easy for OM to spin another story and make me appear like an idiot & troublemaker...

So ? If by arousing suspicion you help protect their marrige and your own. You seem preoccupied with being considerd a nutjob Suzet. Do YOU suspect you may be a nutjob and fear external validation ? OM an Squid portrayed me as a jealous deluded nutcase to OM GF too. Did I care ? No. Exposure works Suzet.

The thing is, if OM wants to cover his back and stay dishonest with his W, it will be easy for him to make his W believe that this is all lies and that I’m some silly desperate young woman who have a “crush” on him an want to interfere in his life with my the exposure action in an attempt to break up his M…

So ? You know the truth, so does your H. She will be delusional if she doesn't believe you, the email trail AND your H.

The danger also exist that OM might sue me or my H for an “attempt to break up his M” or “breaking up his M” and where will this leave me and my H (actually my H was pointing this one out to me)?

With your email trail how can this be possible ? This again is the very slightest excuse for not exposing IMO.

Suzet you read scared, embarassed, scared and scared again. You also seem to think what I always suspected - that because yours was an EA not a PA you need not take the same precautions against it.

You cite all he possible bad outcomes. What if OMW DOES believe you and makes OM face the consequences of his actions ? And that a wall in their marriage is broken down and they recover a deeper love than before, leaving you and H to recover your OWN marriage ?

Exposing to MY OM GF led to JUST THAT. They are recovering, we are recovering. It would not have happened without exposure.

Its clear you believe your own rationalisation for doing nothing Suzet, I have said my peace. Good luck, you'll need it.

Knewbetter, the chance that I will lose my job if I expose is very scarce - it will not really put my job in jeopardy (I think) but I do know OM will go to the greatest lengths possible to make things as difficult and uncomfortable as possible for me and my H should we follow through with exposure to his OMW. Me and my H both know OM and he IS definately the type of person who will make a lawsuit against me and my H for "attempting to break up his M" out of anger and resentment. That's why I was thinking of a anonymous letter to his W in stead (see my post of yesterday).

I don't agree with you here... He was the first to admit he "loved" me in the past. Please take a close look at those e-mails again... If you look closely you will see that both of us opened the Pandora's box..we both were equally responsible for the behavior...

With this I fully agree and this is why I will not go against my H's decisions and do something without his full approval.

I don't have the e-mail trails anymore Bob. I have deleted it from my system after I've received it.

The only thing I have is a Word Document where I've saved the exchanges between me and OM. It can't be used as "solid evidence" since anyone can change the contents of such a document. (The exchanges between me and OM on e-mail was send as attachements on Word and this is what I've saved on my computer.)

Hi Suzet*!

I know you aren't ignorant about this. I'm sure you've thought about all of this upside down and inside out. I must respect you and your husbands right to decide for yourselves what best to do. RH and I did not take Harley's advice to move....OM lives very nearby. I have to tell you, though, it is a strain on me because I have to remain hyper-vigilant, always worrying if that bag of scum is going to try to talk to me again if I'm out for a walk. So many times I forgo the walk because I am just not in the mood to "deal" with that possibility. Or I feel weak that day. And then I resent not being able to go for a walk. I feel somewhat like I'm being forced to be a prisoner in my own home because it is ALL up to me to maintain NC, as I KNOW the OM will not do his part. That is not fair to me. But, on the other hand, there are other things that can put a strain on a marriage, not just an OM. There is unemployment, trouble conceiving, loss of a loved one, financial problems, and the list goes on. I think if we moved away from here, the place my husband loves and where he grew up and where the farm is, that would put a tremendous strain on our marriage. RH would possibly end up resenting me for that. I think that his choice to remain here was based on what he felt he could tolerate best. If he can tolerate OM living nearby better than he could tolerate moving away, then that's his choice. All I can do is work harder at maintaining NC.
Anyway, you are a grown woman, and can make your own decisions. I respect that. You have to try what you think is best.

NOW

Bob,

If I remember correctly, you did not strictly adhere to everything Harley advocates as far as BS behavior during Recovery. Or am I wrong? Did you ALWAYS agree with everything he says, or did it take you a while to come around to his way of thinking?

NOW

Suzet... Have you told the OM that IF he ever contacts you in any way that you will let his wife know about your A??? I usually suggest warning is a very bad idea... but since you refuse to let her know and get the safeguards that would provide your M... I think warning or threatening exposure if NC is broken is the next best option. The OM does not need to know that you have deleted the emails. He doesn't need to know that you NEVER recorded a phone conversation....do something different that you have not done before and perhaps you will get better results. Your track record in regards to this issue suggests that you are not well equiped to carry out a plan of action that will yield positive results.

I have another question... why hasn't your H directly told the OM to cease all contact or else.... ?