We all might vary a little... but NOT on the big things like NC.

NOW

I had no idea what to do so I followed plan A to the letter because it offered a credible plan when everything seemed hopeless. I did a "case study plan A", including exposure.

I guess you could call it slavish adherence, but i had no other idea what might work.

Harley doesn't say much about recovery other than adoptng POJA, PORH , avoiding LBs and meeting ENs which I do the best I can.
I can't think of a premise of MB that I don't follow, not out of cleverness, but the utter lack of any better idea.

I augmented my MB with Dobson ( love must be tough) , Dave Carder and also Wiener-Davis 180 but these were complementary to MB.

And my experiences on MB have shown me that exposure is the single most powerful affair-killing tool I have ever seen. I struggle to recall a recovery where contact persists and exposure was not forthcoming.

I agree NC is non-negotiable. Suzet* is taking steps to assure that NC is in place. She would like to see how this works before having to expose to OM's wife. Maybe it will be enough, maybe not. That remains to be seen. She will have to learn by her mistakes, if indeed it turns out the NC letter is not enough. I have a feeling it won't be, it certainly would NOT have been enough in my case. Even RH telling OM himself, even though we exposed to OM's wife, even though a NC letter was sent... None of those were enough in my case. So it ultimately fell onto me and my choices in how to respond (which was not to respond in any way shape or form) to OM's attempts at contact. What more can we do except move away? I would almost put money on a bet that RH would not be willing to move to save our marriage. What he wants is a wife that CHOOSES to remain, who chooses our marriage every single day, not one who was forced to make the best of our marriage only after that choice was removed (by moving). I am SURE he is aware that contact is possible. But HE is not willing to take an extreme measure (moving) to absolutely ensure it. That's his choice. As it is Suzet*'s husbands choice not to expose. Perhaps he'll change his mind at some point but we have to let them decide and let it pan out as it will.

NOW

Suzet*, I have to ask you...what exactly do you want from the people on this forum? What are you specifically looking for advice on? Did you actually ask for advice or are you just more or less "journaling" your thoughts and experiences here in the hopes you will gain some insight or clarity? What exactly are you hoping to gain by sharing all of this stuff with MB?

Suzet*....
Never replied to your thread before....just remember....as is evidenced by the members of this board...."it is a narrow path to recovery.." not a "tightrope". Call the Harley's.....they are the EXPERTS!!! EVERYBODY ON THIS BOARD (including myself) are skewed by their own circumstances!!!! (e.g. only as "objectionable" as allowed by THEIR OWN EXPERIENCES!!!)

Hi Suzet* !

It seems you have been having a rough ride lately.

Sometimes that has nothing to do with our own actions. Sometimes it's a direct result of things we have done.

Either way, it's hard to cope, and difficult to recover.

I am so glad you came back. This dialog is good for you, it helps you along even if it is difficult and stressful. You probably already know that you are getting the comments you get because people care for you, not because they want to hurt you.

More than anything, we want you to recover and have a wonderful life. I can't speak for everyone, but I was afraid for both of you. Your H because he had to go through this again, and who knows how much he can stand. You, because every time it gets harder to recover.

Of course there is much more than just this going on in your lives - this is just one part of it. All added together it can seem overwhelming. It is good to see you come back and fight to make things right - with your H, and with people on this board.

I have noticed that when people have different opinions then we do, we often feel attacked. This is especially true when those opinions are expressed in what feels like an extreme intense manner.

If it feels harsh, it is only because of the level of concern for you. (My opinion) I think people care for you a great deal, and don't want you to become a lost soul. I think you need only look at the volume and tone of the posts to you to see the depth of concern. Really, this is a good thing.

It's a good example of love on your behalf, but sometimes it doesn't FEEL like love. I hope you do know people care about you.

I suspect there are many more like me that read, but don't have much help to offer. I would guess there are many that pray for you that don't post to you directly.

I know you believe in God, and try to do as he wants you to do. It is my experience that he helps us as we try to do what is right, and continue to call upon him in prayer. There is every reason to believe you'll get the help you need.

Remember the people who post to you have your best interests in mind. Remember they love you and want you to be happy. It's good to see you consider the best way to expose - keep thinking about it, and posting. Keep praying about it. God will guide you, but it's often through others that he communicates with us.

Here's some care, and concern across the miles from far away. Remember people want you to be happy or they wouldn't try to help. What a blessing it is that so many care about you.

I have high hopes for your happiness. God bless you to know the best way to succeed.

SS

Suzet* is taking steps to assure that NC is in place

What steps ? None but hope that I can see, just like that which has failed so spectcularly before.

She would like to see how this works before having to expose to OM's wife.

Read the first two pages of this thread to see exactly how this tactic has worked before. Suzet RECIPROCATES OMs feelings remember. She is no stalker victim here, pestered by the nasty OM. Both need to feel hot consequences of their actions to stop it dead IMO. Also have you no sympaty for OMW here ? Do you not think she needs to know REARDLESS that telling her is the best actions for Suzet's marriage ?


She will have to learn by her mistakes

Suzet has clearly not learned from a single mistake here. She has sent NC letters, and tried to suppress her feelings before, more than once. Failed like it always does. Yet she proposes more of teh same with ZERO changes. If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.

CHOOSES to remain, who chooses our marriage every single day, not one who was forced to make the best of our marriage only after that choice was removed (by moving)

Technology being what it is, NoW*, contact is always easily possible. Extraordinary NC precautions are advised by Harley to minimise risk of contact, but also to make life easier on the FWS to withdraw and rebuild. Also in your case OMW was told so presumably OM is facing consequences of his actions like you are.

In Suzets case OMW has no idea, and is taking zero anti-contact precautions. How do we know OMW won't immediately force OM to work in the family business 1000 miles away ?

we have to let them decide and let it pan out as it will.

Non of us can affect Suzet's case unless we phone OMW as Mel did in KiwiJ's case. An dyes we must let it pan out. But Suzet has helped me enough for me to feel care for her marrige, so I will advise against patently unwise decisions to her. Her current strategy is cowardly and pretty much guaranteed to be inefective IMO.

I would have her and H do brave and noble things which support their and OMs marriage simply because when *I * did brave and noble things against my own fears I was blessed in return in many ways.

Hi Suzet.
Bob and others are giving you some really good advice
that you seem to be over-looking.
(You did come here seeking help with this problem.)

You said in a previous post that your husband knows you post
on this Marriage Builders Forum and that he knows your ID name.

Have you considered having him sit down and read this entire thead?
Or better yet, print this thread for him to take somewhere in privacy to read?

I think it might be a really good step in helping your husband to really understand what is going on with you emotionally.

This would lay it ALL on the table, all your feelings that you have shared here with MB readers.

Suzet, what do you think about having him read this thread?
Afterall, what your husband thinks is what counts; not what WE think. (Total strangers.)

Bob, I never said I agree with what Suzet* has chosen to do. I said I believed it would end up being necessary for them to expose. But since I cannot MAKE anyone do what I want, I can only simply give my thoughts and advice and leave the rest to her. She can learn from the mistakes of others and heed the advice, or she can try her plan and learn from that. I know it scares you to see her heading for what you forsee as certain destruction by following her own plan, but as painful as it is to watch, you cannot change that. You've done what you could. You can preach and preach and preach about what's right, but there is no guarantee you will get through. Sometimes a person has to learn the hard way. And if you find yourself getting angry that she isn't listening to your advice, then it's time to back off.

NOW

Angry

Not angry, mate. I feel a burden until I feel I have done all I can to help. Then I am released. My duty is done now here.

I feel more duty to Suzet because she was on the old nightshift that helped me so much. But I have said what I need to say I think. If I can do any more, she can ask me.

You're right of course NoW*

I'm glad you feel that duty. I would expect that from you if I were in Suzet*'s shoes. It's so hard for me to read about backsliding WW's, too....Because I fear that I will always be just one step away from the same thing.
I cannot allow myself to be so smug as to think it would NEVER happen to me again. Because that is precisely when it would happen.
I'll never know if I am truly "over" OM or am strong enough to resist temptation again, because I will never test myself that way. Even if I felt there was only a 1% chance that I would fail such a test, the fact remains that there is that chance. I have to operate on the assumption that I would fail.

NOW

NOW these boards are a testament to how fragile all of our self control can be. I take extraordinary measure not to place myself in intimate or inapproproate contact with the women I meet outside my marriage now, that I would never have done before.

I was in Zurich this week. A pretty Spanish football fan took a shine to me ( I was watching the world cup with workmates in a special outdoor stadium).

I rebuffed her with a sweet smile infront of my workmates. I told Squid about this, and she said " you should have followed up: I owe yu one after all". She is feeling very guilty right nowbecause " I have been so lovely".

I replied " why, so i can feel as terrible as you do afterwards ?".

Squid smiled and held me.

I don't just avoid an affair for nobility and my marrige. Its because I never want to have the visceral pain in my eyes that Squid has. I wish for Suzet to avoid more of that pain too.

Dear New Beginning, I’m sorry if you feel I dismissed/ignore what you’ve said to me in your previous post. I receive so many posts and it’s just difficult to respond to everyone personally. That’s why I sometimes respond in a general way (like I did yesterday). I’m aware your previous post (the one you’re referring too) was heartfelt and written out of concern and care for me...and I do appreciate that. Please know the “Cruel World Post” I’ve send a while after your response was not as a result of YOUR post at all. I was hurt and angry after some others have implied that I’m a “smug OW” and “serving Satan” and that’s why I’ve send that “door slamming” post – which I’ve afterwards realized was not the best way to react to such personal insults. Sometimes my skin can be very “thin” and I’ve allowed myself to take those remarks too seriously. But that response wasn’t intended towards you at all.

New Beginning, I am a Christian and yes, I do believe in God. Yes, I know affairs are messy and have consequences…and currently I feel the consequences…believe me. But please understand me and my H’s circumstances is NOT of such a nature that I can just pack up and quit my job without finding another one first…and as you’re probably aware by now (after the discussion on the employment circumstances in my country) finding another job is VERY difficult for African white people in South-Africa…not impossible, but difficult Therefore, for me to just pack up and quit my job under these circumstances…and with my H’s current unemployment…will be totally irresponsible and ridiculous. And my H won’t agree to such and action or find it loving or caring towards him at all…to do something which will leave us “homeless”...it will be very irresponsible considering our circumstances. My H will also not find it caring and loving towards him if I would decide to expose without his approval and agreement. As someone has said earlier - as a Christian, I need to submit to my husband - and to do otherwise will not help to build my M and relationship with my H.

Yes, I agree. Please read the following I posted to Bob today:

[color:"blue"]How is it going to be different THIS time Suzet ?
Bob, I believe the fog have finally cleared for me after all these years and that this time I can not, CAN NOT and WILL NOT allow even the slightest contact from OM (which I did before the recent happenings). I’ve made it VERY CLEAR in my NC letter to OM that this time my decision is FINAL and PERMANENT (something I failed to do in my previous NC letter). Previously I had still allowed OM to send me greetings on birthdays and after New Year through e-mail and I realize now it was a big mistake… If I haven’t allowed that in the first place, everything wouldn’t have lead to the recent e-mails we exchanged. I do take COMPLETE NC very seriously this time and I will not, WILL NOT allow myself to make a 3rd mistake. If OM fails to abide to my NC request this time, me and my H WILL take further action.[/color]

Thanks Mrs Wonderings, I appreciate it...

Yes, I am painfully aware of this… That’s why I have said previously I don’t feel I have the “creditability” to post advice and help to others anymore…maybe just support and encouragement.

Actually I feel the real reason this hasn’t working for me is because I failed to fully abide to NC from my side. I feel if I haven’t allowed the sporadic and minor contact from OM in the first place (on e-mail), things wouldn’t have escalated to the level it did recently with the massive e-mail exchanges between us. Please refer to my previous post to New Beginning (the paragraph in blue).

Me and my H has decide on a plan should OM try to contact me again. We do hold our M in a high esteem and we are not risk it carelessly… As I’ve pointed out before, our decision is circumstantial.

Mrs Wonderings, as I’ve said to knewbetter earlier on, the chance that I will lose my job if I expose is very scarce - it will not really put my job in jeopardy (I think) but me and my H do know OM will go to the greatest lengths possible to make things as difficult and uncomfortable as possible for us should we follow through with exposure to his OMW. Me and my H both know OM and he IS definitely the type of person who will make a lawsuit against me and my H for "attempting to break up his M" out of anger and resentment. That's why I was thinking of an anonymous letter to his W in stead (see my post of yesterday).

The other problem is that I don’t have solid evidence me or my H can give to OMW to prove there was an EA going on. As I’ve explained to Bob - I don't have the e-mail trails (which would have been the only evidence) anymore. I have deleted it from my system that same day after I've received it. The only thing I do have is a Word Document where I've saved the exchanges between me and OM. And it can't be used as "solid evidence" since anyone can change the contents of such a document. (The exchanges between me and OM on e-mail were send as attachments on Word and this is what I've saved on my computer.)

Something I did consider (as suggested by Bob) was getting hold of OMW’s e-mail address and send this thread to her from an anonymous e-mail address (maybe asking one of the members on these boards to do it for me) – and I was playing with this thought again today - but I don’t think my H will agree to it…and I really don’t want to do anything without his approval and agreement.

Any thoughts on this (about an anonymous letter or sending this thread to her from a “unfamiliar/strange” e-mail address with an explanation to her on why it is done)?

I would like feedback from the above questions from anyone who are willing to offer their opinions.

Thanks
Suzet

NS: I will be off this forum for a while (I usually don’t post on weekends) and will send my responses on other posts later on (probably only by Monday).

Take care everyone and enjoy your weekends! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Please know I do appreciate all the time and effort you all put in posting to this thread...

Suzet,

You said something I thought I would comment on.


If there is anyone that could and should offer advice, it is you. You have been there done that and have learned some hard earned lessons. I think anyone you posted to would be a fool not to heed your advice and counsel given your experiences.

I hope things are going better for you and your H. It seems to me you two are communicating and developing plans to address future issues. Keep up the good work.

God Bless,

JL

Suzet,

I agree with JL 110%!

All the best,

-HD

I don't think I could swallow another post about why ~some~ work-related contact is OK if it was not a "real affair"

but ~only~

an inappropriate friendship

I might bust a bloodvessel

Pep

and furthermore ...

any future debate that discusses exposure of the affair as a tool to end the affair

ought to use this thread as a cautionary tale

Suzet* has spoken out in the past with an opinion that exposure is not only UNnecessary if the affair has ended .... but it also smacks of "revenge" .....

and my bloodvessels swell up every time a board veteran with clout serves that mess

*pop*

Well Pep,

You can almost guarantee that this will come up again - we've seen this debate rage many times back and forth over the years (like WAT's Affair Exposure 101, or his earlier post On informing the OP's Spouse of the affair . And we will continue to see it pop up again and again I'm sure.

But if you like, the next time it happens I'll call 911 for you to make sure the EMT's get there in time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

-HD

OKdokySmokey

How was Vegas?