Sorry again, star*fish...I really did think I was losin' it...Ah, Hayul, who am I kiddin', I've long lost it...LOL...I too, am sorry that I am perpetually confused...DUH! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Do you mind if I use that post on fear of yours, btw???

Mrs. W<-----Has Chronic Cranial Indigestion <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

awwwwwwwwwwwww

Mrs W

do NOT make fun of your pretty brain hunny

.....

really

your brain is just fine

.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Pep

Pep...

You've just crossed into HERO ZONE STATUS with this ATLANTA NATIVE CHICK for drinkin' the only brand that counts!!! We drink COKE, fly DELTA and ship UPS!!! LOL...Besides, Mel skins cats as a hobby anyway-no matter what you drink...PLUS, look what I found... Mel's Cat AND Mel's Employee(check out what he's drinkin') <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Dang though, somehow, it's just not as much fun to pick on her when she ain't around to babble back, ya know? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. Dubya

P.S. My appologies for our shannigans Paul

Thanks Pep and Ms W. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> No apologies necessary....I think the way I phrased it was easy to misunderstand.

"Yep....ek zak lee....dragged me few foggers in my time! Darn varmints are overrunning the place! Stella...bring me the BIG knife!"

I spend most of my time over on EN, and unfortunately....there's just not a lot of experience with infidelity issues except for a couple of us. I can post there....but I know that there's a whole army of folks to help out on GQ....so I send them all this way and try and check in. If I were in Paul's spot....I'd camp out right here....but it can be a little intimidating and *shocking* compared to light fare on EN when you're a new to this board.

Paul.....you're doing fine. Don't stress out about the mistakes you make, do your best...but it's hard when your heart feels like it's being ripped out of your chest....just get back on track....and make your own plan based on what YOU want. Like I said on EN....I'd personally like to see you do a good Plan A....with all it's parts....before throwing in the towel.

It's a decision only you can make. Almost everybody who comes here faces the reality that their marriage is in deep trouble and has low odds for survival. You're not alone.

Hang in there buddy.

Ok, NOW I think I'm going to really get it...

my wife changed her email password. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

So now she probably knows how I KNOW everything.

How am I going to answer to that? Now all that trust I've built up the past 5 years is shot (I guess).

I feel so bad...how do I handle this?

BTW,

Paul...when you do expose and have your D-day with your wife you should tape the conversation with a voice activated digital voice recorder you can purchase today at Radio Shack. Hopefully, you will break through to the truth and get wife on tape admitting the affair and the nature of her relationship with OM. Why???? ... because AFTER wife gets with OM after your meeting they may try to find a way to cool it or otherwise keep themselves off the radar so she can finish her divorce from you and then, seemingly, begin a "legitimate" relationship with OM. She can deny anything and everything she said to you as fabrication by her "crazy" soon to be ex-husband. If you have it on tape .... you have it authenticated and they would have to undertake their relationship FOREVER as illicit lovers.

Imagine...OM and your wife trying to make a go of a new relationship that includes the suspicion that everywhere they go, everyone they see...someone may be judging them. Cockroaches don't like living in the light and neither do adulterers.

Your wife will be furious at you. She blame you for everything, including "ruining" her life. Anger a marriage can survive....active, legitimized, continuous adultery it can not. You seem UNSURE whether you want her back or not, but in time you will get to make that decision for yourself without regard to what and who your wife is doing. Just like she should....you have to earn your way out of this marriage. Someday, you will deeply regret at least not trying. You do NOT need hope to give your marriage a chance...in fact, I believe giving up hope is a key ingredient to a successful Plan A...in that, without HOPE you can focus more easily on YOU and build your own confidence without being needy or desparate. I, myself, and many, many other BS's here THOUGHT for sure their marriage was over only to find themselves back in the game later on with a spouse endeared to them BECAUSE they had the cajones to stand up for themselves, their family, AND their LOST, FOGGED OUT, OP ADDICTED, WAYWARD SPOUSE.

What greater demonstration of love and commitment is there then fighting for your marriage with her in this situation??? IF and when she realizes that she will also begin to realize that YOU are sooo obviously the better man than OM for her it is ridiculous to even compare (this sometimes take time).

God choose YOU as her perfect husband and SHE as your perfect wife...God doesn't make mistakes...if you care for this woman and wish to prevent her from a life and afterlife of misery...then fight for her.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- You must read the whole thread Mrs. W referred to on the Just Found Out board called "For Newly Betrayed Spouses". Longhorn and I (and some others) spent a lot of time compilling information for just your situation.

(I hope the GQII regulars don't mind, I followed Paul here from EN)

Paul,

Don't stress so much about reading your W's email. Sure, you read her email. She's going to tell you she won't trust you. Well - what about the fact that she's having an affair???

SHE is the one who has blown all the trust built up in the past 5 years - not you!

Paul, I snooped at my wife's email a year and a half ago - that's how I discovered she wanted to divorce me, and was skating on the edge of an EA with her ex-bf. I felt guilty about that, too - but even at that time, knowing I had "invaded her privacy" and feeling that guilt, I knew I would do it again, without apologies - because I *needed to know*.

Her infidelity affects your life, Paul. You had a right to know what was going on. So don't feel guilty about reading her email. You *needed to know*, these facts *directly affect your life*, and she was *deliberately withholding them* from you.

BTW, your wife didn't necessarily change her password because she knows how you found out. She is probably racking her brain trying to figure out what you *could* know, and changing passwords is one simple thing she could do to close all the possible gaps.

Paul...

Why do you feel bad for INSPECTING what you EXPECT??? There are NO expectations of privacy in a marriage, nor should there be..."the two shall become one"...

You "saw logs and say nothing" until she does...WHEN she does, you say simply...People that have nothing to hide, hide nothing...

Hang Tough...We ain't even come close to the hard part yet...Press on...YOU CAN DO THIS!!!

Mrs. W

Um, I feel sure that she's the one that's blow the trust to smithereens here Paul...And btw, even in marriage, BLIND TRUST is NEVER good...That's what got you where you are today...

Mrs. W

So the question still remains, what do I do?

Do I admit to reading her email if she asks? Yes or no?

I've always felt bad about reading her emails. I know it was an invasion of her privacy. But if I didn't, I would not have known a single thing about this affair.

Thanks for the advice, I really need it!

YES...Tell her...Mr. W is posting to you about this now...

Mrs. W

I should say tell her IF she confronts you about it...She may just have changed her password because she is PARANOID...NOT because she KNOWS that you have been checking her email...Feel it out...

Mrs. W

Paul

Some questions for you. I have read your posts on this thread but I am missing something.

Why did you seperate four months ago?
If it was her idea why did you agree?
Do you believe that the OM was in the picture before the separation?
If you don't think the OM was in the picture could he be a comfortable rebound fling?
Do you have any kids? I know it was asked but I couldn't find your answer.

I do believe you have every reason to confront her about the stuff you found on the email.

Just to let you know about the name calling I am sure there aren't many FWS or WS that spoke glowingly of their BS. It would ruin their justifications.

Can you imagine if your W said My H is so great how that would make her look.

In regards to her changing her password she probably figured better safe then sorry. Might not know if you were looking but she is making sure you can't now.

If you tell her you love her and want to work it out and you know she is hanging out with OM but still want her back it might help. She may think that the OM would stop you from ever taking her back.

Paul,

Don't you think it's curious that she can betray your trust and then blameshift because you found out she did? What kind of cracked logic is that? Here's the stuff she'll likely say:

her: I can't believe you invaded my privacy! How could you do this! I'll NEVER trust you again.

reply: I find it amazing that you can ignore the fact that you've betrayed me in the most painful possible way for a long time....and now you're angry because I had the decent sense to stop believing your lies and trust my own instincts long enough to look for answers.

her: Now you've REALLY ruined everthing...I was going to be nice about this...but now that I know how low you are....I'll never want you back! It's OVER!!

reply: It's your lies and affair that have ruined everything....I'm just the easy target to blame it on. You want trust and honesty from me while you betray me. Your anger is about your own shame...not about my character.

In short....be prepared for all possible venom with logic, calmness and and no guilt for searching for the truth in a web of lies.

It's scary, but believe me....most of the time....the anger about this is short lived because it's even hard for a fogged spouse to maintain the ridiculousness of that argument.

Pot calling the kettle black.

You need to be strong right now Paul. She didn't want you to find about this.....ask yourself why.

Well now that it no longer remains an effective way for you to snoop...why not admit it. But don't stop there. I am guessing you've only snooped a little on her email for maybe only a few weeks (if I'm mistaken...good for you the more you have the better)...anyway, you don't tell her that. You merely indicate in your face to face confrontation that you tape record that you have been spying on her email for months and that you have saved and printed ALL her correspondance therein. Don't give in to her attempt to determine exactly what you did find so she can determine if she can lie around it. YOU KNOW IT ALL.



EXACTLY. Sure it feels bad to "SPY" on your wife. To bad it was NECESSARY for you to determine the truth about YOUR life. She WILL yell at you for it and berate you to others about it...but THIS does not make you a bad guy. On the contrary it makes you a wise fellow. If you had failed to protect yourself from her abuse (and don't think for a minute that she is NOT abusing you...adultery, even GOD says is the greatest form of spousal abuse)...and snooped you would have had never ending questions and regret over the failure of your marriage. At least now if it does end it really wasn't your fault AT ALL and you can walk away more easily with your head held high.

You can tell legitimately and sympathetically tell her "I'm sorry you feel that way" when she gets angry. There is no need for you to be too apologetic, as you said you did what you did to protect you. Your breach of trust pales in comparison to hers and SHE KNOW IT.

Good luck,
Mr. W

Paul...

Just want to reiterate...Don't tip your hand unless and until she does...remember, POKER FACE...You are the guy in the White Hat here...Don't forget that part...

Mrs. W

P.S. How's that for answers? How great is the MB team round here? And they'll all be around to help you on this journey...You will be amazed...Also important to remember, no matter what happens Paul, YOU WILL BE OKAY...

All of you have been VERY VERY HELPFUL to my questions! And I really appreciate it.

I've got so much confusion and even guilt right now (I know, I shouldn't). The guilt is about my phone call with her...how I was to the point, frank and stated that she should know what she did, she lied to me, and that it really hurts me, then hung up. I do feel bad about that.

I should have just been up front and not hung up. A bit childish on my part. But it is just what I did and how I felt. Trust me, I could have been MUCH MUCH worse to her. I wasn't mean, just direct and upset.

So if she asks me, "How do you know" or "What have you heard?" etc. Should I just say...

"It doesn't matter how I know, I just KNOW." If she does ask if I checked her email, I will then confess to it and be honest.

But you know what...WHAT is the point after this is brought to light? Just to be honest, I dont' see her wanting to come back to me or even work on the marriage.

Am I just basically trying to clear things up and get them out there...so at LEAST I can move on?

To answer another persons question above, we have been separated for just over 4 months now. She filed last week. Yes, I allowed her to go live out with her parents in the country. She said she felt "alone" in the marriage and checked out on me. I admitted to taking her for granted and focusing on my own issues too much and not "being a husband" to her. I also didn't do social things with her because of my issues (anxiety). BUT...I really started to work on them and she noticed this. She noticed my changes. I gave her space and time, even tried to talk, etc. She never gave an inch. She just always said, "she just checked out and the feelings were gone". Yet, she still would stop by our house on occasion, we would talk, even show affection, etc. Very strange.

As for the EA, I'm not sure when it started. I think as the separation began, they started to become more close as friends. By the way, he lives out near her parents and is a friend of the family and always has been. It is her high school sweatheart...who cheated on her in HS!

One other thing...so what if my wife does admit to the affair? She says, "Ok, yes, I'm seeing this guy...but I still don't want to be married."

Then what do I say?

Expect her to say that she doesn't want to be married...She's living in a fantasy world...Having a relationship devoid of bills, shared household chores and morning breath, etc...Paul, she has essentially gone back to high school...Living with her parents, dating the high school bf...Somebody else is dealing with the hard stuff...Remember high school? Life was rather problem free, huh? She is a grown up now...this relationship or any other will eventually have to face that and all of the responsibilities that come with it...But NOW it's perfect little la la land...You are about to blow that to bits...and you should...YOU WILL BE HELPING HER BY DOING THIS...Trust me, my own affair so closely matches your wife's that it would amaze you...right down to the "he cheated on her in hs" part...and the "country" part...I get it...Been there, done that, and bought the soundtrack and it SUCKED bigtime!!!

Read the link in Mr. W's signature, "Pepperband's Carrot and Stick of Plan A"...It's good...It will give you some step by step's of Plan A's goals...

You honestly, believe it or not are going into this with the right attitude...You are almost at the "giving up" point...It is that that will keep you from appearing needy, clingy or desperate to her...All the while you will continue to be the BEST husband that you can be-trying to meet her EN's that she will allow you to...You only have the power to change you, after all...Remember, ACT, Don't React...And STOP beating yourself up over any mistakes that you've made up to this point...you will make more, we all do and did...Mistakes can be overcome...This is NOT an exact science...It is often said here, this is simple, NOT easy...

And what do you say to her? You say, I love you, you are my wife, I want to save our marriage and am willing to do all that it takes to do just that...If she still talks divorce, tell her that you don't DO divorce, your attorney does that, YOU DO MARRIAGE...be a broken record with her...ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS stay on message...

What changes are you planning for you??? New wardrobe? Gym membership? Tanning membership? Counseling?

Mrs. W

Then you begin your Plan A. You tell her that YOU WANT to remain married and you intend to do everything you can to save your marriage. You do this "charging nuetral". You do not yell, nor do you attempt to "educate" her. She is beyond education right now and will only listen to reason on her time table which will take awhile. IGNORE her attempts to get you to give up and that it's futile for you to try. Do not REACT...just be the best person and husband YOU can be. Maintain YOUR integrity.

Try to get to know your wife. Get inside her thinking. Allow her to talk and talk and talk. You listen, listen, listen. Everyone's favorite subject is themselves. Ignore her fog babble. Don't accept blame and don't put yourself down. Just listen and try to reestablish an intimate friendship with her. Be confident that no matter what happens...YOU will make it. Attract her back to the marriage gradually. First off, she will be shocked at your demeanor...she will be expecting much more shock, anguish and hostility. She may not tell you that TODAY, but eventually your actions TODAY will speak volumes to her about your value and integrity. Talk and listen.

Read my do's and don't list on that Just Found Out thread I mentioned. A lot of the above is in there.

Mr. W

p.s. - This is your life. You only get one go around. Experiencing and enduring bad moments is what allows us to more fully appreciate the good moments. Pray for the power to change what you can change and accept that which you can not. You can't control her...only you.

p.p.s. - Be brave and courageous...it ain't the end of the world.

p.p.p.s. - ACT, DON'T REACT