Paul...

If she is an alcoholic, and you have questions regarding that in particular, there are some very wise posters around here that could provide some insight for you...MelodyLane & Pepperband are wonderful...And hurtingless is a great guy, who's posting style I really like (Even if he is a Yankees Fan...Sigh...LOL) and he is dealing with the ramifications of being married to a WW/alcoholic...(I have noticed he has posted to you)...

I have less experience with alcoholism, though my father has a dual diagnosis of Bipolar Disorder/Alcoholism(which appears in the form of self medication)-Wow, that's a can of worms, I assure you...

Sounds like your WW may have had to deal with some of what I did as a child...ie, becoming a surrogate spouse to her mom??? Like when her dad left for OW??? Those ties that bind are tough, but can and should be broken so that she can become a healthy self sufficient adult...Again, nothing you can do on that front, k? Just want you to be able to understand it for you...

Mrs. W

Mrs. W, first of all, I have to give you a BIG thank you for all your time and posts. I always love reading them in regards to my situation. Same goes for everyone else!

As far as my wife being an alcoholic, I would think she is to a certain degree. Would this classify her as a alcoholic...

*When she gets frustrated or mad, especially during some of the rough emotional talks we have had...she has told her friends something to the effect like "I'm sure after Paul and I talk today I will need to get really, really drunk at golf".

*One day right before all this separation, I was cooking out on the deck. She got back from walking the dog and noticed I was drinking a beer. I usually don't drink much and I said, it just tasted good. I said, "There is one left in the fridge" if you want one. Her reply..."I can't have just one".

I told my therapist about this statement, and he made a great remark to me. He said..."I bet she can't just have two either". He was DEAD ON right. When she drinks, she DRINKS. But the thing is, she has always been a big social drinker because her family is just like her. Maybe they ALL have a bit of alcoholism to some degree? I don't know how you actually classify it.

I will look up the "borderline personality disorder" on Google now...

It's funny, my wife called me today. She had said about a week ago that she might come over to help clean the house to get it read for sale. Of course, this was all before I sort of confronted her on the phone about her affair. That was a rough call in which I said what I said, and I hung up (see earlier post for details).

She had emailed me after that phone call as well saying..."I'm not sure what that was all about. I know there are probably rumors about me going around, etc. I wish you could at least talk to me about it."

I never replied. She knows what she has done. All the proof (or enough at least) was all in her emails.

ANYWAY...like I said, she called today and she said that her and her mom could come by and clean on the house. I was firm again and said, "I don't think this is a good time". I know she could still sense my anger. She was sort of short with me as well.

She didn't even ask why I was mad. It's almost like she doesn't even care or could care less.

It's amazing how you can be with someone for 5 years, best of friends and husband and wife with hardly any conflicts and huge respect for each other...and then it comes to this. I hate the tension. But she wronged me and as much as I don't like the tension, I still need to stay firm.

I guess deep down I wish she could just fess up and apologize.

Maybe in time. Time can change a lot of things.

She kinda cares...she just doesn't want to have "the talk". If she asks you about it you may ACTUALLY confront her and call her on her illicit affair with OM. That would be uncomfortable and painful soooooo, she avoids it. Classic conflict avoidance. Plus...affairs are not so much fun when everybody knows what you're doing...affairs THRIVE on secrecy. They are dirty and deceitful and thus PASSIONATELY PROVOCATIVE.

She's addicted to OM...how is "talking" with you going to assist her in maintaining the addiction. The addiction is her focus. You and any feelings/emotions for you she may still have are toxic to such addiction. Do you think a crack addict wants to discuss their addiction with their mom, dad or spouse? Of course not...that's why the concerned family necessarily plans an intervention or somehow tries to manipulate or trick their loved one into a recovery program. Initailly the addict does not want to get "well". Once they are clean for a bit then perhaps THEY can decide to undertake a true recovery but until then the family will often do whatever it takes to get them help...whether they want it or not.

Next time don't hint around about knowing and guess that she knows what you are implying...TELL HER STRAIGHT OUT what's upset you and how you feel about what she's done. Don't LB, but put the facts OUT there. Tell her you've got a copy of all the emails to prove it and go from there.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

p.s. - you said this:


IS NOT GONNA HAPPEN. She won't fess up and you may be doing what I did a few days last year. I would specifically say to my wife (when I knew already)..."If you are lying to me, how can you live with yourself, that is just soooo cruel". I was intentionally attempting to illicit "guilt". "Guilt" is NOT a motivating emotion. You are merely playing games with her and it is not productive. Just TELL HER THE GIG IS UP and allude to knowing EVERYTHING. With the truth out there you can at least have the BIG LIE behind you. No matter what happens it is a necessary step.

As far as an "apology"...that's gonna take awhile. Someday she may wake up and realize the pain in her life that she thought YOU represented somehow followed her into her life after YOU. Someday she may realize her mistakes and bad choices and seek you out to apologize. Perhaps she'll NEVER understand or get it. If you move-on, waiting for an "apology" is ill-advised, but a sincere apology from her will take time and some serious, rational, coherent, soul searching (which as a WW, she is necessarily INCAPABLE OF at this time).

Honestly though Paul, conflict is better than withdrawing from each other, which is what typically happens in a relationship between two conflict avoiders..."We Just Drifted Apart"...

Why is it that you won't confront your wife with what you know? What is your fear? What is the worst possible outcome of telling her that you know?

Mr. W is right, she won't tell you...The only reason that she wanted you to talk to her about "the rumors" is to try and flesh out what and how much you know...please believe me, it is true...Even when you tell her that you know, she will DENY, DENY, DENY more than likely...it's just the nature of the beast Paul...

The sooner that you tell her that you know that she is having an ADULTEROUS AFFAIR, the sooner you can get through this-you will feel a HUGE sense of relief once it's out there...Whaddaya say we drop this albatross? This sucker is heavy! In reviewing my desk calendar, today is good for me, how's it lookin' for you?

Mrs. W

I called my wife at work today because I wanted to ask about our realtor and what they had spoken about. I also wanted to discuss some other house issues. I was cordial, and not overly friendly. She was the same.

I guess in a way I do want to confront her with it just to get it all off my chest. I'm not sure when I will do this, but I want it to be face to face. And the thing is, we rarely are face to face anymore.

I'm just sick of it all. I know confronting her won't change things really. In fact, it is obvious her friends know what is going on with her and her ex (at least the friends in her circle where she lives out in the country).

Mr. and Mrs. W...you two are fantastic. You have made me realize the BOTH my wife and I don't like confrontation. This is so hard for me. In a way I would rather end things on a cordial basis...she knows that what she did was wrong (maybe, maybe not). But then again, it would be nice to just "have it out", get upset, but most of all...just get it out of me so it doesn't eat me alive.

Paul...

Call her back and do this on the phone!!! YESTERDAY ALREADY!!! I know that I've advised you to do this face to face, but I fear that you are just not going to get it done that way...You are using the not seeing her as a reason not to confront...Pretend this is a bandaid and RIP IT OFF!!! Hurts more to do it little by little, ya know? Please disabuse the infidels of the ridiculous notion that they've gotten one over on you-PLEASE LET THEM KNOW THAT YOU DID NOT JUST FALL OFF THE STUPID WAGON-Cuz Paul, as brutal as this sounds, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY THINK...TRUST ME, THEY HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT IT...I don't know about you, but it's killing me on this end...STOP TAKING THIS ABUSE-THAT'S WHAT IT IS PAUL, NO KIDDING...Please do this for me if you won't do it for yourself...Heck, give me her number, I'll tell her that I know...won't help you much, but I will feel a GREAT sense of relief...This will NOT kill you...YOU WILL FEEL RELIEF WHEN YOU DO THIS...Now, go "GIT 'ER DONE"!!!

Mrs. W

Well, I talked to the realtor and he is either going to meet her at our house tonight or tomorrow night with BOTH of us. I think after we meet, I'm going to tell my wife that I would like to talk to her before she goes. Then just let it all out. I feel like it is going to make me cry. Oh well, I guess. It just hurts. But it hurts almost worse holding it in.

Ok Paul...Tomorrow night will be fine...Of course this hurts, it is ABUSE...Even God recognizes it as such and gives you an out because of that...It's simply that serious...You will be okay, of that I feel sure...You will smile again, laugh again, be happy again...God promises that you will be okay, and He NEVER lies...

Something that is said here fairly often that I just love..."Don't tell God how big your problems are, tell your problems how big your God is"...God is Big Paul, give this to Him...I will pray for your strength and peace...I know this is really hard, but more importantly, HE knows...Rest secure, knowing that you are "In His Arms"...

Mrs. W

Ok, we (my wife and I) and the realtor are meeting tonight. I told my wife and then I said..."Also, I want to talk with you for a few minutes after he leaves".

Then the phone got silent. More silent.

Then I said, "Ok?" And she said, crying, "I'm just so tired". I said I was to, but I had some things I wanted to get off of my chest and that I think there are things we need to discuss to clear the air...out of respect. I also said, I'm not going to try to win you back.

She said, "I tried to talk to you the other day and you hung up on me". I said, "I know. I know I did". But no apology on my side.

Anyway, I said, I will see you after work.

I'm just going to be honest with her after work. I've got to let it all out and I'm still going to not argue, but just be myself. Not mean.

Interesting exchange. I was shocked to hear her cry...

And that will be perfect...You Act, Don't React...But please make sure that she understands that YOU KNOW THE WHOLE SKINNY HERE-simply state the facts...Don't try to drag the truth out of her...Remember, this is NOT your wife that you will be dealing with, but rather an addicted, fogged out, alien WW...BIG DIFFERENCE...Do not accept any of the blame for her affair, that is all hers to own...Doesn't matter what the state of the marriage was before...An affair is NOT a solution to marital discord...Please let her know that this is VERY DISRESPECTFUL AND ABUSIVE to you-you can say that calmly...Please do not tell her that the two of you can be friends after this, and Paul, if you think that, STOP RIGHT NOW...Respect yourself more than that, okay? God go with you my friend...

I'll be praying...Please keep us posted...MB will be a great place for you to heal...

Courage...Strength...Peace...

Mrs. W

And Paul, please re-read what Star*fish posted earlier on this thread about how to deal with the "how dare you read my email" nonsense. If it comes up in the conversation that you read her email, don't allow her to make you feel guilty. Remember that she was betraying you, and lying to you, and she left you no choice.

Good luck...

Well, it's over. We had the talk. I think I did over-assume what was going on. But, my wife did eventually say there was at least an "emotional attachment" going on with him. She said she hadn't slept with him, etc.

She did apologize for the name calling in the emails and felt bad. She really cried about that. Also, she said the reason she didn't tell me she went to the lake that one weekend with her ex and his parents was because she knew I would assume more than it was.

I STILL insisted that it was an EA. And that I felt disrespected. I also said that I didn't appreciate some of the things one of her girlfriends said about me in some emails that said I was just making her feel "guilty" etc. I said, that that girl doesn't know SQUAT about me and my character and how dare her judge me like that. I said I've never tried to make you (my wife) feel guilty. And I also said it was upsetting for you to not defend me on that.

Anyway, my wife cried a lot. I do really think I did over-suspect what is going on. I know most of you will disagree, but I know my wife. She did apologize for the name calling in the email and was sincere, she balled a lot about that. I told her, it wasn't that, that hurt so much...it was the emotional involvment that hurt the most.

She said she never wanted to get invovled with someone, she even told her friends that and me. But I told her, "you are vulnerable". When she finally did confess to being somewhat emotionally attached, I told her..."thank you for admitting that, that means the world to me...the truth".

As far as checking the email, I said, you can hate me forever for checking your email. I knew it was wrong and didn't want to do it. She never said one thing bad against me for doing it! I couldn't believe it. But I think the reason why was because she did't feel like she had much to hide really.

Anyway, when she left I said, "I hope you understand my point". She cried and looked terribly sad and worn. She said, "I've just got a lot to compute right now, etc." and walked out to her car. She was just crying like crazy.

I told her during the coversation that I bent over backwards for our marraige and for her. Was always loyal, faithful, you name it. Sure, I made mistakes about taking her for granted and making her feel lonely...but at least I tried to work on the marriage. I did tell her I loved her...it made her cry even more.

At one point I said "I hope you and ex-bf" are happy, etc.

I do feel MUCH relieved, but I also feel like I over-judged as well. That sucks.

I'm sure I was too gracious in my words to her and forgiving and some of you probably think I should be tougher. But it is just not me. I do feel like I opened up and took a stand, yet at the same time, was a compassionate person.

Ok, let me have it...how did I do?

Paul Click Here...

Mrs. W<-------Being attended to by paramedics

Seriously, there is MUCH that I have to say about, ahem, well "THIS"...but I just honestly don't have it in me tonight...I'm exhausted and my response would serve to key me up...I'm still with ya, I just can't go there right now...I just simply cannot...

I hope that others will be inspired to enlighten you...I'll be back tomorrow...

Mrs. W

Paul, the only reason I am rendering this opinion is because you asked for one...
you were duped and actively allowed yourself to be jerked around. Been there, done that myself... her performance was nothing more than that... an act. Brother you fell for it, all of it. Perhaps you should have internalized some of the words here before allowing yourself to be treated like a chump. I feel sorry that you are going through this. You lost a lot of valuable ground tonight... both in your dealings with the WW and your own dignity.
You got played brother.

Paul, Paul, Paul, love is blind is`nt it

I just can't win, with anyone I guess. I've got so many people telling me this, and my heart telling me that...Ugh.

This is just exhausting and now after reading your posts it makes me feel like everything I did was a mistake.

The thing is, I know my situation. I went with my heart and instincts. I exposed the EA. I have NO proof that it evolved to a physical affair so I can't blame her for that. I told her that both were equal in my book and that an EA is still an AFFAIR and wrong.

I'm tired...I've got to go to bed. I'm sure you will let me have it tomorrow.

Paul,

I am sorry for you in your current sitch. Many of us have been where you are, that is why we recognize it, denial. It keeps us safe, not having to face it. But, like Mrs. W said, they are laughing at you, believe me, I've seen the e-mails/text messages that prove it for me, that is what it took. My WH, like yours, used tears, coersion, manipulation, anything at their disposal to keep the OP in their lives, not face the BS and to keep their public image up, hey, its just a failed M, they happen all the time, right?

They try to manipulate it into looking like they are honest, your the one seeing things that aren't there, after all, they told told you the truth, don't you believe the WS?

In a word, NO!! I am not being bitter, believe me, relatives, friends, my IC tried to tell me differently, I "believed" my WH. Guess what, they were right, I refused to see reality. Please understand I am not trying to make you feel bad, only possible save you some pain.

Best of luck

Hey Paul... I am not trying to be hard on you... but it is time someone gave you a whack to egt your head out of your [censored]....
The above quote is from you... earlier in this thread.... sounds like proof to me. Do yourself a favor... find your nuts and start using them before it is too late. You are getting walked on and hiding behind the guise of being "nice." Your WW is not going to respect you being a whipping boy here.
Stand up and be counted.