I know this is ridiculous........

Why do you say that?

It may happen as per your dream. It may not. I think dreams can be important. In your case, it sounds like they have been.

However.......... this isn't about him.
While it's true he can leave the marriage, it is also true that your happiness doesn't depend on him.
Short term - yes. We become attached, and that's what makes love so wonderful. So, short term, your happiness is wrapped up in him.
Long term, NO !

I understand your feelings about your mother making it all right. I think back to when I was small, and got sick. Nothing helps like a mom's love.

It's hard to make that transition to BEING the Mom, or the Dad. We sorta get used to it, but those days when we didn't have to be in charge are still warm and fuzzy in our minds.

I think WAT has it right. You'll get it in time.
Sorry for the pain along the way.

SS

LA,

I have been reading a lot of your posts to others and just reading a lot here in general.

Sometimes I feel like I have some clarity and other times I feel very confused.

I keep going back to what you said in a post to me about there being a middle ground between all gone and all there and choosing to look at WH's indecision as fence-sitting or realizing that he is trying to choose his path.

We have been in a somewhat mutual Plan B. WAT and others have given me great advice about drawing the proverbial line in the sand and I did ask WH to make a decision.

Reading other perspectives about the WS being controlled by the inner child and a warped sense of entitlement really hit home with me too.

I wonder if not doing a Plan B would allow me a chance to do those drive-byes that Rin is always talking about. I wonder if I would have the opportunity to show my WH that he is indeed safe with me.

Maybe this is me trying to "do" and control, maybe manipulate something into happening. Maybe I am trying to do that with Plan B.

I am overanalyzing for sure, trying to find a path. Maybe it is because I am still uncomfortable doing nothing or still feel a need to control the situation.

I'm not really sure what it is I am asking of you. I am hoping to work through this confusion of mine and I am not sure where to start.

Any ideas?

Lizzie,

You have SS here...my hero...I learned from him so much...that's why I don't post to your thread, just follow...he beats me to it...all of it.

Heed his words...

Your mutual Plan B's...rather accidental to me. You've acknowledged your own WS mindset...I thought from there you could get better acquainted with yourself.

Your focus seems to remain consumed by him...and that's your choice. Your doing. What he's doing is his.

Not knowing if you want to take an action because of manipulation or truth is rather important. Not to be skipped over. Might be the step that stops you from reacting and instead, acting, don't you think?

You have an urge...to show WH you're different. That was for Plan A...thoroughly. Is this because Plan B isn't giving you what you want?

You can practice your drive-bys alone...writing them down throughout the day...getting really honest with yourself would be a great path to finding your true intention...making it pure.

Sounds like what you're asking me, only you can tell. You're aware of your extremes, and are finding middle ground. That you're not sure of what middle ground looks like, well, you're not alone! It was unknown terra firma to me, too!

What would it take to formalize your Plan B? Clear intent? Chosen action? Or to change it from withdrawal to pursuit, in Plan A?

Don't be telling me you're overanalyzing...LOL. Worrying and predicting are useless and can feel like analysis. They are not. Real analysis is knowing what you're feeling, thinking and believing right now. Here.

Nothing over or under about it. How else to we own what is ours and know reality?

And yes, you may be experiencing the anti-path feeling...of standing still. A standing path. Can be powerful. Be still and know that I am God. Be. Still.

If you are not standing, but straddling...inbetween real Plan A or Plan B, then that's something else, isn't it?

All your choices...I admire you for looking within and pray you'll choose you for your focus, your treasure.

LA

Worrying and predicting are useless and can feel like analysis. They are not.

BINGO - that's what I am doing. Thank you for pointing that out.

If I am in Plan A, I think I should be in Plan B.

If I am in Plan B, I worry that I should be in Plan A.

My desire...my need... to do this "right". Standing still or straddling - I think I am doing both, continually second guessing myself. I liked the middle ground you referred to between all there or all gone - now I just feel kinda lost, like I maybe missed your point there.

Accidental Plan B, huh? I suppose you are right. I am reacting out of fear...fear of failure maybe, even though the failure does not belong to me.

Tonight after posting this, I received an e-mail from WH - first contact in over 2 weeks.

"Hi,
I'm just writing to apologize for how long this decision is taking. I have not forgotten about it, I am still trying to sort things out. I promise I will have an answer before your birthday. On another note, I heard you went to Rhode Island to kick some [censored] and that you thought your mother maybe isn't doing so well. How is she? Did you get everything straightened around? Please write back and let me know.
Scott"

Of course I didn't tell him to not contact me because I never formalized my Plan B - wasn't sure if that was what I should really do....

...and of course I answered his e-mail.

Will I ever get this?

BTW, SS is one of my heroes here too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

So, you have a deadline...when is your bday?

And you learned that formalizing clarifies, doesn't demand...both to you and to your WH.

Great lessons to have, don't you think?

How about some formalizing?

What did you answer?

Where's the choice statements, like training wheels you put on, in your statements?

Lemme help--no attack:

"BINGO - that's what I am choosing to do."

"My desire...my need... is to choose to do this "right"."

"Choosing to standing still or stradde - I think I am doing both, continually choosing to second guessing myself."

"Accidental Plan B, huh? I choose to believe you are right."

(feel free to choose not to, anytime!)

"I am choosing to react out of fear...fear of failure maybe, even though the failure does not belong to me."

"Of course I didn't choose to tell him to not contact me because I never formalized my Plan B - wasn't sure if that was what I should really do..."

...and of course I chose to answer his e-mail."

and drumroll... ... ...

"Will I ever choose to get this?"

Can you hear the power as you reread these statements you made?

Goes to you not knowing if you're in Plan A or Plan B, thinking while in one, the other may get you what you want...rather than reinforce who you are choosing to be.

All yours, Lizzie...choosing every step of the way...your life...when you stay in what you can control and choose from that...not choosing for what you cannot control.

That's why I training-wheeled your statements...to show you the first step is to see and know you do choose.

Before you can know what to choose.

LA

B'day is August 27. When I spoke to him 2 weeks ago, the deadline was for me. I said that this past year and his A had consumed my life (it was last year on my b'day that he said he was thinking that he wanted his own child - long story short it was a variation of the ILYBINILWY speech that was a cover for his A) and that I was not going to let another year slip away from me again.

My answer to his e-mail (and I thought this was good at the time)

"No apology necessary. My birthday is my timeline...not yours." Along with this was a brief update of things at my mom's house.

I know that all of the things I do or don't do are my choices. It appears that I am choosing to focus on him and what he is doing or thinking or feeling...instead of me.

More thought needed.

Pondering...good stuff.

Deadline coming up...are you prepared to file for D if he doesn't decide by your bday?

Hey, just 'cuz I'm focusing on you doesn't mean you don't have to.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

I am not going to file for D, because that is not what I want.

That's not what my deadline was about. In retrospect, I guess you could say that the deadline means a real Plan B - complete physical and emotional removal from him and the situation. If that eventually leads me to choose a D, then that is what will happen.

Also in retrospect, I guess I need to explore exactly why I asked him to make the decision. Maybe my reaction to the news that he was in another A? Trying to control the situation? Make something happen? I thought I was setting boundaries...drawing the line in the sand.

Not sure anymore.

A formal Plan B if he doesn't choose...okay. Been working on that letter?

Who's going to be your intermediary?

When you draw your line, the line doesn't move...unless you don't enforce it. Then you move it from not enforcing it.

Now is what matters...you made the deadline...I think you're sick of betraying yourself...a lot of assuming, trying to be clairvoyant, and as you said, focus on him, not you, which is what boundaries are about.

You are getting this, Lizzie. No doubt. I'm confirming. Want me to print a receipt?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(((Lizzie)))

LA

(When I ponder, I picture sitting beside a pond...to remind me to be gentle with my self...my true self...and harsh with the self-image that muddles the whole process.)

I'll use your post as my official receipt LOL!

Thanks for your help tonight LA.

Off to bed...I'll ponder more tomorrow <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

A REAL Plan B is intended to preserve what love you have remaining to keep it from being sucked out of you by continued disrespect and LBs by the WS. To prolong your availability to rebuild the marriage.

If you want complete "emotional removal" in the form of a drained love bank, maybe a full on Plan A is the Rx. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I don't think classic Plan B is what the Dr. ordered. What will be your punch line in the letter? You're going dark until he does what? He can't give up the WS any further, right? Or does he have a string of OWs going on? In effect you'll be saying, I guess, that until he decides to try to love you again that you're going dark. Is that right? How much sense does that make? How can he decide to try to love you again if he can't see you? How does that make you an attractive choice?

Perhaps your logic is that he ought to remember enough of your prior relationship and your (earlier) Plan A improvements to come to his senses that you're a real catch afterall. This is the logic of classic Plan B - when the affair dopamine runs down. Is he running on dopamine now, or trying to find his a$$ with both hands? If it's the latter, I'll stick with my recommendtion to set your timeline and then start a whole new life - correction, a new whole life - no Plan B. Your timeline is your Plan B. He knows what this means. He chits or gets off the pot, or rather, acts or loses. In your new life you'll find the right time to file - you'll decide you want it afterall. He WILL NOT do this. Don't wait on him. What you see right now from him is what yer gonna get. Indecision is his key to flexibility.

JMHO

WAT

WAT,

Not sure if it makes a difference in what you are saying, but WH is on OW#2.

Running on dopamine - maybe. Trying to find his [censored] - definitely.

At any rate, I have been choosing to react instead of act (see that LA - my training wheels are on! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />).

I think maybe I read too many threads and then try to alter what I read to make it fit my situation. I am thinking about calling Steve Harley to maybe get grounded in a better plan for myself.

Indecision is his key to flexibility. Maybe it's mine too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />.

Liz - I understand. Steve is a good resource and a good idea for you.

But you're the one who needs to decide on what you want and how long you're willing to wait on it.

And "wait" is the only thing you can do perhaps. Especially if you go to Plan B. At least in Plan A you can act.

I have to admit that I'm hoping for you a similar outcome that I had. I worked my butt off to save my family and it didn't turn out that way. Today, I'm glad it didn't. I'm WAY better off - every day realizing how bad my XW treated me for many, many years.

Just food for thought.

WAT

WAT,

I have decided that I want my marriage. Except for a couple of brief periods, that has been my stance all along. How long am I willing to wait? I don't know. I keep thinking that when I am done waiting - I will know it.

The difference between your situation and mine is that my WH did not treat me badly. Up until his A, what we had was a very good and respectful marriage. I know it must be hard to believe in light of the fact that he had an A. I struggle with believing that he had an A in light of the fact that our M was so good.

Plan A, Plan B - is it me or do I keep hearing different advice from people about what Plan I should be in? Or no plan at all?

Hopefully, Harley can help me with that.

Thanks WAT.

I know that LA was recently recommending Plan B - or at least discussing it. She is a wise lady and you should consider her views - along with all others. My views frequently differ from others. I (we) cannot know all things to be considered, given the limitations of communicating this way. You are wise enough to recognize this and weigh the views.

The good news for you is your decision to consult with Steve. Not only will the communication be easier, but his experience may help you tip the advice scale to the correct side for you.

Please let us know what happens.

WAT

I definitely support WAT's wise advice for Steve to offer which Plan to be in...

And yes, I noticed the training wheels on...they look fabulous...how do they feel?

LA

The training wheels feel pretty good. I am back to work tonight - vacation is over - so less time to obsess. Tried to not do that today with fairly good results. It was a be nice to Lizzie day today - swam in the pool and did my own pedicure.

LA, could you elaborate on what you meant about getting better acquainted with myself since I acknowledged my own WS mindset?

Hoping my appointment will be with Steve this week.

Received another e-mail from WH tonight to let me know something that he had heard at work today about my daughter. It was necessary communication, so I'm choosing to not read anything into it. I also chose not to answer it...
although I considered sending a brief thank-you. I am choosing to second guess myself.

More on my life these past 2 years:

On Aug 6, 2004 my then 21 year old daughter was on her way home from working as a waitress (working her way through college) when she was intentionally hit and run off the road. The man in that car ran up to her and pointed a gun at her head, kidnapped her and held her for over 4 hours and raped her. He intended to kill her, but my daughter convinced him to drop her off back at the house. It was big news here in my little town.

Following that, my step-dad was diagnosed with cancer and I helped my mom care for him over that winter. Spring of 05 brought my dayghter's trial and the eventual sentencing of this lowlife (89 years with parole only after serving 57 years - he was 36 at the time and had served time before).

After that, my step-dad died in early summer of 05.

Then on my b'day - 8/27/05 - my H told me he wanted a child of his own which eventually I found out was a cover for his affair. D-day was 12-28-05. Dealing with the fallout from that and my daughter's rape ever since.

Anyway, back to WH's e-mail. This lowlife's mother keeps trying to get the case re-opened and she is planning on trying again, so WH just wanted me to know that he had heard that.

Don't know why I wrote all of the above except that it hit me today that my life has been non-stop turmoil for the past 2 years.

You woke up to a lot of huge events, one after the other, didn't you? Did you feel you had your head down, plugging through each one, until you ran into the wall of DDay?

There's a difference in those life-changing events, isn't there?

Your daughter was a victim of a stranger; your step-dad was a victim of illness and death; your WH chose to betray...each wasn't about you directly; each affected you greatly...but does what your WH did seem like a double betrayal?

The WS mindset takes resentment (which we create in ourselves), enough to build into entitlement (which is a vairation of bitterness), and includes a lack of respect.

We create resentment from our belief we've been done to...when our expectations are not met by others, and we hold them responsible for it. We believe they make us resent...tricky business.

Expectations are premeditated resentments (LostHusband).

I think you can see the lack of respect in that...and lack of reality.

Entitlement is justifying taking what we want at others' expense..and often, includes at self's expense, as well.

We usually see shortcuts in life in some way...winning the lottery, quick diets and instant gratifications...there are shortcuts emotionally...resentment is one of them...and it includes a healthy dose of self-deceit. Clearing out your resentments, owning them for being ours, and committing to make no new resentments switches a downward spiral into a chance of an upward one.

Injecting respect as our life premise changes our choice of actions and gives us true freedom, real responsibility and the ability to live from love.

With these two self-commitments, entitlement cannot grow, nor can we become bitter.

Just a thought. Okay, a bunch.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(And yes, the piling up of stressful events works both ways...in becoming wayward, meaning bringing the choice to have an A closer than we imagined...and I believe this is part of what your WH experienced as well.)

LA

Wow, Liz - I didn't realize you had those other challenges.

You may not know I lost a young son to cancer whcih was a catalyst, I believe, to my EW's affair. Talk about a double whammy! So challenges R us?

Hang tough, girl. I know you are strong and a force to be reckoned with.

WAT