Hi you two,

How was your Disney trip?

I hope you are coming home with fresh perspectives and recommittment to moving forward TOGETHER! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Wanted you to know I was thinking about you and still have great hope in a positive outcome for the recovery of your marriage.

Glad

Hi , Thanks for your concern. I haven't been on the boards in a while. I had no idea you had this post so I just wanted to say Hi and I really don't have the time right now but I will respond to your post later. Thanks again for your positive encouragement!!

Hi Michele!

Sorry I didn't write to you sooner. I have been really busy since the trip and didn't see your post either. My H told me about it at lunch.

We are leaving on another vacation on Saturday so I am trying to prepare for that too. It's really busy around my house right now. We had a picnic yesterday too.

The Disney trip went well. I think we only argued 2 times. The kids had a great time. My H and I got along good. It was very exhausting though. All that walking in the heat really gets to you!

We really had a good time. My H and I had a talk Sunday about our M. He wanted to know if I even want to work on the M b/c I dwell a lot on what happened. This whole thing just really took a toll on my life. I know I'll never know the answer and everyone tells me to stop looking but I just don't understand what made him meet her in Pittsburgh a second time. Obviously, he KNOWS what he was thinking on why it was a good idea, be it sex, attention, affection, fantasy, whatever. But he won't tell me. Actually, he says he doesn't even know. I just wont buy that answer.

He had a long time to think about the trip he planned w/her and why he decided to go through with it. I can only imagine what he was thinking while I was driving him to the airport to meet her. I just wish he'd tell me.

I feel like he's always on me with the "Well, you need to forgive me." It feels like he is putting it all on me. And I'm not taking any blame for where we are right now in recovery.

One of the biggest things for me to have to overcome is being envied by so many other people and going from that to your friends being grateful they're not in my position.

I know I've said it before but we had such a GREAT M. Anyone can find some EN that wasn't being totally fulfilled but my H and I got along so GREAT, did things together all the time, never fought, enjoyed spending time together. We have a beautiful home, beautiful girls, great families, great jobs. I even always thought to myself, "This is too good to be true, something has to go wrong. Nobody has it this good." Little did I know this would be what it was <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

It just would make more sense to me if we were having problems or unhappy, but neither of us were. I just don't get it. I just can't accept the "You'll probably never know the reason why it happened."

Ok, I really went on and on, just wanted to get that out.

BTW, hi Dwain <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

How are things with you Michelle?

--Sarah

Hi Sarah and Dwain!

Thanks for the update Sarah. That was good stuff to get out. I skimmed your new thread and thought you are getting some really great posts on there, too.

Its like a death, what you are going through. The death of what you thought your life was. That is why the recovery process is so long. Would you get over the death of a loved one in just a few months? No. Even a divorce would not help you escape dealing with this "death". You have to walk into it and choose every day how you are going to walk through that day. I can't believe we've made it 3 years now. Its great to be on this side of things, but my heart still remembers where you are right now. Hang in there.

We had a great 4th with some family in town from your neck of the woods...New Jersey. My inlaws have a new house across from the clubhouse in their n'hood where they do a spectacular fireworks show every year and we sat in their front yard and the show was literally right above us, it was awesome. My 15 mo old was shaking from the noise and I was covering her ears and making her look at the lights and she finally understood that the noise meant pretty colors would be in the sky and she started pushing my hands away. So cute!

We are also getting ready for a long trip up to Minnesota to be with my family for 2 wks. I am flying alone with the 4 girls because my H can only join us the 2nd week! I got them matching outfits yesterday for the plane ride so they can all look precious and I can keep track of them better in the airport! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Keep moving forward, you two. There is so much to save here! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
--M

Hi Glad,
Sorry I didn't get to post you lately. I have been so preoccupied with other things. I also have purposely tried to stay off the boards because I get so confused as to what I should be doing because their are so many different opinions. The one thing I have taken with me is the "work on me" suggestions. I am surrendering my ways to follow what my IC and my pastor suggest. They know me. They know me as an individual and not just another FWS. It seems on this site we FWS all get thrown into a category and are told to follow the directions every other FWS is following but I believe everybody is different and unique. What works for one person may not work for another. The same goes for my W. When she is told by peers what is working for other FBS in her position she will always say "well they are not me". Everyone on this site has been so informative. This is a Great site and I plan to be a member for life! I hope someday I will be ably to help others.

I things things are going pretty good lately. Sarah still snowballs the A though and if she could get a better handle on that I personally think things would be Great. What I mean about "snowball" is , I tell her she reminds me of a snow ball rolling down a hill, which gets bigger and faster as it goes. She gets like that when anything about the A is brought up. She won't just say what she has to say ...she will just keep going and going and going till we get into a argument and avoid each other. I can sit there and say nothing and let her vent but no matter what it always ends in a fight. I wish we could talk about the A and not fight about it. I am not saying she is the blame for the arguments. I am at fault too. I need to be more sensitive to her. I need to let her know I am here for her. I need to reinforce that I support her by sometimes taking the time to ask her if she needs to talk. I know I am not 100 perfect but I am trying like heck to be 99.9% <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I am so glad I am doing IC. I am doing and handling thing alot better than before. My IC keeps reminding me that I can not make choices for sarah. The only choices I have any say about are my own. My IC gave me this analogy... I blew the roof off our happy home. Because of me my children are now exposed to the terrible thing that has happened outside the home and are no longer protected. In order to save my home I must work on getting the roof back over the house and protect the children and our marriage, but the problem I have to face is their are two side to a roof. I need to work on my side of the roof and sarah needs to work on her side. She also said that I can't be on both sides at the same time and to focus on my side BUT help sarah by giving her the tools she need to work on her side. I thought that was a very good analogy. I know I was already told by others on here to worry about me but I am always so wanting to help her and tell her what she should be doing and how she should be doing things. The fact is all I can give her is the tools, she has to figure out and make her own choices build it. I have been trying to give her the tools of love, trust, support, and everything else she needs to know the A is over and their is nothing to be scared of. No more revelation to hurt her(fall off the roof).

I wish there was more I could do to help her with her self esteem and happiness. I know there is nothing I can say that is gonna make her change her mind but I figure if I just keep pounding away to her about how I feel for her and what I thing of her I hope that wall of insecurity will break down and shatter. I also have put alot of faith in God that he will bless her with Happiness for her obedience to he will. I know he can do a miracle with her self esteem because he can do anything. I am a testimony of Gods miracles. I know I don't deserve to be married to such a Great wife but I prayed and have put my faith in him and though the D word has come up from time to time these last few months I am still here and I thank God every night for blessing me with another day with my wife and family!

PS-Sarah meet with the pastor last week! I am very proud of her for taking that step. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Talk to ya soon

Dwain

hi Sarah,
I'm not sure I have posted you in the past. Your post really stuck a cord with me today where you said

"I know I've said it before but we had such a GREAT M. Anyone can find some EN that wasn't being totally fulfilled but my H and I got along so GREAT, did things together all the time, never fought, enjoyed spending time together. We have a beautiful home, beautiful girls, great families, great jobs. I even always thought to myself, "This is too good to be true, something has to go wrong. Nobody has it this good." Little did I know this would be what it was"

I feel the same way a year later. Will we ever really know?

Sorry to sound glum on your thread, but I do wonder if we will ever know the reason. My fws says it was studidity. I guess that will have to suffice.

We are doing great on recovery, It sounds like you are too. Sometimes thinking about this deeply really sucks.

Hey IASS,

Well done on the IC, great analogy your IC counsellor used. I hear what you say about so many different opinions, but after four years of listening to all the advice outside MB and that within MB - MB rocks. I wasted two years listening to my husband and what he thought I aught to do, not joining the MB forum. Two not speaking up and the last two following MB. Even with the hardest of problems Dr. Bill is the guru with the success rate.

I have an extra tool you can give Sarah. the truth over and over, coupled with time. time to yell, time to snowball, time to cry, time to find her own way and feel her own pain, Give her the right to her own schedule and try aiming for 80% perfection, you will more likely get there and the lessening pressure on yourself will make it easier to give Sarah those gifts - oops did I say gifts instead of tools. Yes I did - she needs gifts from you, not tools. that is her IC's job, giving her tools.

Keep on keeping on, you are progressing....

SP

Hey Michele,

You are probably in Minnesota right now and probably won't read this till you get back. I hope you had a great time and I hope the kids did too! I think my brother and SIL just got back from there. Forgive my ignorance, but is Milwaukee in Minnesota or Illinois or none of them? I am horrible at geography and that's pretty bad since my dad is a retired geography teacher <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />! Anyway, they were in Milwaukee (wherever it is) for a convention. They had a really good time.

Our second vacation went well too. We were with Dwain's family so we didn't fight or anything around them or even much when we weren't around them. Dwain asked his mom to walk the kids back to the room while we took a walk on the beach and sat on a lifeguard chair. It was nice.

I also met with my pastor on Thurs. We are going to start the MC together. My pastor is concerned about our progress. He said although he knows everyone handles things differently, he thinks we are in limbo and wants to get into MC. I agree with him. So Dwain is setting up the appt. to take this enrichment thing and then we wait for the results from that (2 weeks) and then start donig MC with the pastor. Dwain and I really like our pastor. He is so down to earth and knows exactly what we are thinking without us even saying it.

So that is where we are. We have been spending a lot of alone time together too. On Friday Dwain's parents took the girls overnight and we went out to eat and to a movie. We did get in one little argument, but we worked through it. We spent all afternoon Saturday together and then last night my mom had the girls overnight so we went out to eat.

So it seems things are beginning to make some slow progress but at least I am actually feeling progress is being made. I wasn't feeling that for a long time.

Well, have to go...my girls will be home any minute and my mom is taking us all out to eat.

--Sarah

moveforward,

Thanks for your post. It makes me feel somewhat better (if possible <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />) to hear there are other great M's that this has happened to, just sorry it was yours too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

Also good to hear you are doing great in recovery. It gives me hope.

--Sarah

Hi CO,
I got some more questions answered last night. I am doing really well. The answers last night along with some of the comments I have read on here lately are finally to sink in and I am making sense of all this- well at least as much as I can.

The OW in our situation was the old girl friend. I think that had so much to do with it.

I know we were not a perfect marriage, but we were good. We are better now, though.

Sarah,

Keep your chin up - recovery is dopwn the road. Dwain seems to be getting himself worked on, so that will help a lot. Take it easy, just one day at a time. It sounds as if the pressure has been a little lower for you. If it does build, remember you can always take it out on me.

I am a good punching bag or wet soft shoulder.

God Bless

Linda

I asked Sarah to write down on a paper all the questions she feels she needs to make a decision and move forward (with or without me). There were fifteen of them. I didn't look at them when she was done. I didn't want to answer them when she was in her angry mood. She has been pretty angry with me lately and I think she is ready to give up.
Anyways I took the paper and put it on top of the dresser and told her I will answer every question on the paper but not at that time. I wanted her to get some sort of comfort knowing I was willing to open up and her questions were gonna be answered. Well now I was the one depressed because I was agreeing to do what my IC and Pastor instructed me not to do. They all feel Sarah knows enough to make a decision and anything else is just twisting the knife.
Well today she is with a friend. They went out to eat and now they are going to a movie. I took this time to pull down the question sheet and answer all the questions. I even wrote the time I started and finished and had our 8 year old sign it to show I didn't sit there and take all afternoon to make up lies to make the answers less hurtful. That is one of the reasons why I put the paper on the dresser shelf. I didn't want to read them and dwell on the question and answers. I wanted to read it and answer each question on the spot. Well I did it and I put the paper back on the dresser.

My decision to do this is because I just want to know that if this M doesn't work out , I did EVERYTHING my W wanted me to. I don't want to look back and think "I wish I would have ... or I think I should have..."

It feels like I just closed my eyes and jumped into the unexpecting...I hope I can open my eyes and find there is nothing to be scared of ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I think it is very arrogant of anyone- you, your IC, your pastor, etc to ddecide what she needs to heal and move forward. Have you shown them Joseph's letter?

I, as a BS, appreciate that you did this. I think it shows great character.

It will not be easy for her to read the answers. If she is like I am, I had pictured things far worse(romantic, sexy, etc) than they really were.

My husband's honesty meant so much to me when he answered the questions.

I know it will mean a lot to her.

Ditto, the IC and Pastor's comments, they are not God and so are not in her head or heart, SO THEY DON'T KNOW.

Well the good is you answered the questions. the bad, you made a DJ on her as to how and when to do it.

Are you ever going to just say "sure honey, let's sit down and I will tell you all now" are you ever ... or does she have to be judged by you for the rest of her life with your pastor and IC backing you up. They do not know best. She does ... it is her heart. I hope for your sake she has more patience than I do.

If my husband did this to me we would have been divorced in less than six months. You sure are making him look good. I didn't think that was possible. Even your good progress is all about things being in your time frame and the way you want them.

What is this about involving a child, so if BS complains the kid can take her to task as she is your witness? Didn't you yell to the high heavens when CO broke and said something in anger to the child about this? Now you are doing it in cold blood. Dragging a child into this so she can be your witness as to what a good man you are.

LOOK in the mirror ..... NIKKO !!!!!!

Linda

That is why I answered them. But in the same format YOU are not GOD so how do you know what she needs.

I guess I should feel sorry for you because obviously have issues you need to deal with.

I wrote the time on the paper and asked her if that was the current time and if it was to sign her name that she agreed. I did the same thing when I was done. DD didn't even know what she was signing. She thought it was a game/test to see if she could tell time. I was in my bedroom with the door locked when I answered all the questions, the girls were out in the living room playing. So what are you talking about! "DRAGGING A CHILD INTO THIS"! Look you must have rolled out of the wrong side of bed today ...I suggest you go back to bed and wake up on the right side. You seems to have a lot of bitterness, anger, negativity inside you. Why? You know what don't bother to answer that because I really don't feel like investing any more of my time with your posts. If you feel I am the reason for the way you feel, then why are you still posting me after you flat out said in my personal thread you were done writing me! But yet here you are now posting to me everything I should be doing and everything I am doing wrong in a new thread titled "Sorry and CO--Come in here" . Last I checked your name wasn't CO and it sure isn't Sorry!

PS- have a nice day <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Did he not want to answer them? How long did your questions go on for? Where are you guys at now as far as recovery?

Thanks

I know I am not perfect, but it always seems certain people on here expect me to be. I am trying...I truly am! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Linda,

I get where you're coming from, but I have to say I agree with Dwain on this one.



I agree with you on this but you also have to understand that just like NOBODY but me knows what I need, NOBODY but Dwain knows what he needs. And even FWS's have needs too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />....who knew <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. (Now I'm not talking needs that go against the M). But when his needs (not answering my questions) conflicted with mine, I agree, he should have fulfilled my needs after all he's put me through. That was another selfish act on his part and he realizes that.

Yes, he is the FWS, and he owes me the truth, but what was he supposed to do when everyone was telling him different things? It was hard for him to understand that that is what I needed.
I am not in any way saying he doesn't deserve to tell me the answers I want to hear. I am just saying neither Dwain or I have ever been in this situation nor has anyone that we know. We are both learning and trying different things to see what works for us. As everyone has different ways to get through recovery, we are learning our ways to get through.

Dwain has done MANY things wrong IMO and I'm sure in his opinion as well. But I cannot sit here and say that I haven't done MANY things wrong as well. I admitted before to using his answers against him and attacking him back with them at a later time. I realize this made it even harder for Dwain to answer my questions. When I wrote down my questions, he told me to take my time and ask any questions I had. That is what I did. There are no more that I have. We should have done this in Nov., but I guess neither of us was ready.

I do appreciate him answering, hopefully, my last questions that I feel I need to move on. This wasn't for anybody else but me. And I think Dwain finally understands that. Sure, it wasn't as soon as we all hoped, but it happened, and we are both trying our best to get through this mess.

I appreciate your insight, Linda.

Have a good day!

--Sarah

Missing you Michele <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />!

--Sarah

Hi Sorry,
We are almost 13 months into recovery and we are doing well.

You asked did he not want to answer the questions. Well, at first, he answere lots of them. I am very, very inquisitive and I had a lot. There were some he would not answer at first- that was to protect me. Yes, I heard from everyone here how he was really protecting himself and the OW. I see that, but I also see how he THOUGHT he was protecting me, too.

What he didn't understand then was that everytime he evaded or refused to answer to protect me that I imagined it to be so much worse that it was.

What worked for me was to type in the questions I had for him and then I would wait a few days before emailing them to him. By the time I got ready to email, I would have weeded out several of them. The important once got answered that way. I found out some were not really that important.

There were other things I was afraid to ask. Yes, I felt the need to know, but I was afraid how bad the answers would hurt. Those are the ones I waited til last week to ask. I was finally ready.

There have been weeks or months go by when I did not ask anything. Sometimes, the answer to a question will trigger another question, so don't be surprised if she thinks of something else.

Just keep being open to her about everything.

Wow - you HAVE come along way Sarah, good post, you have managed to get past some of the anger and are on a smoother place in the roller coaster.

All BS are angry and do as you did, in fact right now there is a thread with a lot of veterans who advise us, and they are talking about still feeling resentment 10 years down the road. At least I have beaten that one. lol :-)

So keep doing good and keep on keeping on.


Linda