Statistical comparisons about this topic can be deceiving. The books say that marriages between affair partners seldom last, but we need to keep in mind that they are only talking about marriages where the affairs have been revealed. In other words, since most affairs never do get revealed to their spouses, and about 50% of all marriages end in divorce, it is possible that there are many more divorces resulting from affairs than we think. We also do not know how many marriages there are between affair partners. It possible that a higher percentage last than we think. But then again, it could be a lower percetage too. We don't really know.

But what we do know is that ain't smart to marry someone who does not believe in fidelity and who handles marital problems by having an affair. We do know that unfaithful people are usually ......unfaithful. We don't need a study to know that, only a working mind.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thankyou. A working mind......That is really all we need to answer the title of this thread, isn't it. I have the same baffled response to people who fantasize about their affair partner leaving their spouse for them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for all the input. Of course this is an important question for many of us. Some of you asked why I want to know.

A few reasons. I'm in withdrawal right now -21 days with No Contact, and for the first time in about 9 years actually facing the reality of life without the OW. So part of my reason is to help me face reality and to realize what the alternative future would have been like. Withdrawal is very tough, especially after such a long time, and I need all the help I can get to put this whole thing in perspective.

There’s a lot of grief mixed in here as well. I miss her a lot despite the fact that our relationship was wrong. That’s one of the challenges too.

As some of you know I had a child with the OW and so I have to also work through that issue, which, to be honest, is in the too-hard basket right now. I am very much concentrating on recovery first. I’m focusing solely on ending the affair before I try anything else.

I'm just trying to be realistic. My relationship with OW certainly had some attraction and lasted for a long time so I need to resolve why it did and whether that means anything. I am just trying to make sense of things and get over my addiction. Some of you are further along that road so I value your thoughts.

Thanks again.

To bring in the rich and famous is not evidence. I don't even bother to look at the famous, for there is so many divorces.

Lets talk about the normal middle class families. According to what I have read there is a 2% chance of the marriage making it. The marriage is dealing with someone who committed adultery. Unless they don't tell the other person of their past, which will eventually be found out and then another BIG lie. The hurt of destroying the marriage and severely hurting their spouse and children is going to be there for a long time. I for one would not even want to date an adulterer, not saying I wouldn't, just the thought of this person hurting someone they loved, even hurts to this day. There are those cases where the spouse was abusive or alcoholic and such. Or even had a chemical/mental condition of being bi-polar and such. I still don't think I would want to deal with these situations.

Marriage of an affair is a marriage of lies, deceit, untrustworthyness and falsehood.

Just my opinion. Blessings...LoveinHim

Many people might say that my MIL's A marriage did "work"... but with different problems to their R.

It worked because she ended in a "better" situation. Her 1st H was verbally abusive to her and her kids, he was controlling, and he had atleast 3 A's of his own. My MIL often (so I've heard) would run to the bathroom and throw up when she saw his car coming down the street after work. She would do the same any time he touched her.

Her 2nd H brought new adventures to her life... she learned to go boating and fishing, spent many weekends on the lake in Kenora, Ontario. They were more sociable together and seemed much more happy in their new life, even though they argued all the time over little things.

But I would say it still failed. Neither of them trusted each other... always checking up on the other... although that is probably the same in a "recovering" M. Her kids were miserable... the oldest wouldn't live at home, my W and her sister hated their new step-father until years later. It had a huge affect on the girls (as evidenced by my W's A for 1 thing).

AND... we are positive MIL was starting a new EA until her H became sick with cancer. Many calls were coming to the house and she seemed weak-kneeed and little girlish around a particular man. The news of cancer stopped that from happening as she focused on her H until his death.

The week after the funeral, MIL almost started seeing her H's brother, also M'd and a known "womanizer"... until we talked some sense into her. She obviously has some needs that never were dealt with.

To answer the question... in this case, she did end up in a better situation than she was in... but it didn't make for a healthy, lasting R. There were so many side-issues because of the A and M. For once, cancer was a blessing, because the writing was on the wall for another A and ruined families. Affairs are never good. If the M is wrong or bad... then get out of it if it cannot be fixed. Then find a new partner to share your life with. Still lots of issues but I bet there is far less baggage to deal with.



Mel, I hope you are talking only about those who choose to leave their M because of an A and then remarry. Otherwise, what about all the FWS on here who are attempting to recover? They chose to handle their problems by having an A, but we are pinning our hopes on the future that they have learned something from this (and hopefully so has the BS). I think most people believe in fidelity, but we have seen how many of these people still, for many different reasons, fall. But for all those FWS reading this... you are all winners in my eyes, because you picked yourselves up and are choosing to try and make something great out of a bad situation.

Shaden

I know of three affair marriages.

Affair marriage #1: This former work colleague has been married to his OW for about 20 years now. He left his first wife and young children for her. His OW/Wife #2 is 15 years younger than him. He is 62 now and she is 47, and going through a traumatic menopause.

When they began their affair, he told her that he definitely didn’t want to have any more children, because he didn’t want to cause any more conflict between him and the two kids he already had. The OW agreed to this, and so she gave up her chance for a family to be with him. A massive sacrifice for a young woman of (then) 25.

Despite this, I don’t think that reality has ever really hit this couple, though cracks do sometimes show. He is often cruel to her – not physically, but he does have a slight bullyish streak and she gets the brunt of that. But they live together in a nice little apartment, spend all of their free time together, and seem to be happy together. But I wonder.

She has a drink problem. Then there is the ‘mental bullying’ thing. And the fact that she gave up so much to be with him. Are they just ‘making do’ with each other, unable to admit, after 20 years, that they hurt so many others with their selfishness? Who knows?

Affair marriage #2: between a male acquaintance in his late 50s and his OW in her early 20s. He divorced his wife of nearly 30 years, married his OW, and they had a baby together. Within two years of the marriage, they divorced. No-one was surprised.

Affair marriage #3: The disastrous emotional life of another former colleague. She married young, to a man who beat her. She had one child with him, and a couple of years later ran off with another man, who treated her well, but was ‘safe and boring’. She had a child with him, the marriage lasted about 10 years, and then she met ‘the love of her life’, had an affair, and left the safe, comfortable man.

The third marriage lasted about 10 years. Then ‘the love of her life’ left her for another woman.

She’s on her fourth marriage now. She’s been married to husband #4 for about 10 years. I think she’s learned not to have affairs, although I think she’d go back to husband #3 in an instant if he wanted her to.

The worst thing about with mess is the way it’s affected her kids, particularly the younger girl. Now in her thirties, she has been married and divorced twice, had her own string of affairs, and is now pregnant with her third child to as many men. Basically, she’s mirroring her mother, and her daughters will probably mirror her, too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I hate affairs. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

My FIL did marry his OW three years ago. And they are still together and seem to be happy...some of the time. Some of the "new toy" appeal has faded.

In their day to day contact with one another they seem to be a normal couple.


But the social/family ramifications are far reaching and will never be undone.

I`ll give you some examples....

My family, my parents who have been married for 45 years will have nothing to do with my FIL. At social functions for our kids(birthday parties, school plays ect) my parents will not attend if FIL and OW are going to be there. So we have to ask FIL and step MIL to family functions on an alternating basis with my family.

I work in the public, in a small town where everyone knows everyone else`s business. As soon as people realise who I am (FIL`s DIL) I get an earful about the situation. Some of what is said is unflattering to my FIL, some WAS unflattering to my MIL (she is now deceased) Anyway....everyone seems to have an opinion. No one remained neutral...sides were chosen. Many friends cut contact with FIL. Snarky things are said behind his/OW`s backs.

My oldest son remembers clearly everything my MIL had to say about my FIL during the breakup. As a result my son is not very close with my FIL. He sees my FIL regularily but does not feel close to him. My son still asks ALOT of questions about the situation...perhaps this is because he does not get any answers from H or myself...we tell him to go ask his grandpa....Our son does not particularily like the OW either...he`s polite but he avoids her.

Younger son is staring to ask questions now too....just recently he made reference to the OW as his grandmother (he actually thought the OW was his biological grandmother) H and my oldest son just about HAD A STROKE when the youngest said this, he also heard my oldest son ask questions about the situation recently...so now he too is asking questions...

When my MIL died a couple of years after the D my FIL quickly got rid of everything that they had owned together that he had kept after the D. He told my SIL he feared these things were cursed.

My H sees his father, loves his father but still holds alot of animosity about the situation. Just recently my FIL was diagnosed with prostate cancer (he had the surgery and will be fine). The reason my FIL gave for the divorce (he never admitted to the A) from my MIL was the lack of sex. And now this....My H said to me upon hearing the news of his father`s cancer "I guess this is karma at it`s finest"

My point is this....

You could marry the OW and there is a slight chance that you could be happy.

However....

The way people (family, friends, aquaintances, co workers) view you, what they think of you, the respect they have for you...will change forever. You would be discussed behind your back and snubbed by many people. The wives of your friends (unless they were OW`s themselves) would not accept the OW into their social circle. Be prepared.

Now you could say that you don`t give a hoot about this, and maybe for a while you would not...but eventually you would. Especially if it affects how YOUR FAMILY feels about you.

Would it be worth it?

Shaden, you are right, I am only talking about those who get into affair marriages, not our FWS'. There is a world of difference between them and our FWS' and that difference is repentance. Our FWS' have STOPPED their affairs, these ppl have not.

Well I think there are a lot of determining factors.

IMHO the most important is the changes within each individual in the M.

People do grow apart, it happens. People change as well. What was important to me 12 years ago seems like a joke now. Once I had my first son boy did my world change. My priorities were realigned, my fears changed, even my needs changed.

If the two people in an M change then it is a real possibility they are no longer compatible.

If the OP is more in line with the WS as far as these new important factors are concerned it can work. But there is always a chance of the realignment in that relationship as well. If a realignment is necessary then it is established that the WW doesn't really want to do that type of work. They would rather find another person that has their new values.

In addition to that sometimes the BS is not a good S. I would never say a BS is responsible for the A. But there are bad BS's out there.

If the OP is a genuine kind person that meets the WS needs then again it may work.

IMHO again. WS may have a lot of needs. BS is filling some OP is filling others. The WS places a higher priority on the needs BS is not meeting to justify their behavior. When OP has to fill all of those needs the WS might decide that the needs they were filling aren't as important as they made them sound. Now the most important EN's will need to be filled by someone else. But then again they left that person for the OP.

Now the other factor that may be involved is children. I don't know what the statistics are when in the first M there were no children but the second one there are.

See statistics can really be misleading until you know all of the factors involved in the situations. Someone else wrote it could be skewed because all M's that were a result are not counted.

NO..they do not work.

My xh married ow 3 days after our D.

He has NOT been faithful to her ever...even since her "engagement" during which I was married to him, he has not been faithful.

They have been married 2.5 years now and have separated already twice known of...and three known and documented affairs.

Sure...they TRY to present to the world a "happy faced couple" but they are liars and will not fool anybody who knows at all.

It is sad...he tries to get contact with me anytime he can...and I avoid it. Last summer, during one of his separations MY XH ASKED ME OUT ON A DATE SAYING HIS AFFAIR M JUST "ISN'T WORKING"....?????

An affair is completely fantasy based imho and is immoral based on instant gratification ....real life kills affairs. Light of day, guilt, humiliation, and exposure kills them too.

I make sure I continually expose if I am asked...I am about the truth. And he still hates the fact I AM THE ONE TRULY SINGLE, ATTRACTIVE, AND HAVING FUN...HE CAN'T AS HE MARRIED HIS MISTRESS.

hURTINGLESS...YOU'RE OFF BASE...

If people have morality and honor...they will FINISH SOMETHING FIRST BEFORE BEGINNING SOMETHING ELSE.


If a BS is THAT BAD...END THE DAMN MARRIAGE...DON'T CHEAT. and begin anew with dignity and character in tact.

Cheating shows lack thereof COMPLETELY. Disrespect.

I hope your W is a forgiving woman...and I hope you're strong enough to go NC and DO THE RIGHT THING. GET OFF THE DAMN FENCE FOR ONCE.

Just,

"If people have morality and honor...they will FINISH SOMETHING FIRST BEFORE BEGINNING SOMETHING ELSE.

If a BS is THAT BAD...END THE DAMN MARRIAGE...DON'T CHEAT. and begin anew with dignity and character in tact."

I agree 100% with your statement. Again I said I would never blame an A on the BS. Heck I am a BS.

I said sometimes the BS is a bad BS. I would say if an H beats his W and she has an A she is wrong. She should leave but there may be other ramifications to her actions.
He is absolutely wrong. A man should never lay a hand on his W.

"Cheating shows lack thereof COMPLETELY. Disrespect."

I agree again 100% completely.

It does not however change the fact that sometimes the BS is a bad BS.

A couple of things that I found somewhere a while back which is relevant to this topic. I particularly like the second paragraph.

A cheat is going to do it again. Not all relationships end with being cheated on, but if yours has, it could add fuel to the fire of resentment you are feeling. But, in many cases, the reality is that a leopard does not change its spots. A year or two down the line, you might very well hear through the grapevine that your ex has either cheated again or has been cheated on by the person you were left for. A saying that has often been proved to be true is, "If someone will cheat with you, they will cheat on you".

Marrying someone with whom you've had an affair. There are cases in which this can work, but generally this is not a good basis for a long-term relationship. Conducting an affair is a very different kettle of fish to keeping a marriage going. And, what's more, if you think about it, one person gets a spouse who was prepared to cheat on their previous spouse, and the other one gets someone who didn't hesitate to make a pass at someone else's spouse. Not a very good basis for a long-term relationship, because someone who will cheat with you, will most likely cheat on you, given the right circumstances.

My mother had an affair with my current step-dad. The situation with my mom was strange. She left my biological father due to physically violent acts against her. She just left. She then remarried when I was ~8yo (also have 2 older sibs). The marriage lasted for ~6+years; my mother had an affair with my now step-father. They lived together for ~8years, and then got married. They were a happy couple, even with the deceit of an affair as their beginning.
I think statistics will not tell you about the mistakes a person makes in their choice of a marrying partner (as hurtingless said "sometimes the BS is a bad BS.) My first step-father was a bad BS; I knew that, even as a child. He was a bad choice on my mom's part, but we were poor and he was stable, so she chose to marry. When she moved in with my now step-father, it was a good choice. I cannot say that I am proud of her choice to end her M during an A, but it was her choice to make. My step-father (dad) now mourns the loss of my mom due to breast cancer and honors her by remaining a huge part of my family's lives. We love him, and wouldn't change things. We did suffer, due to the change in guard, but came out the other side happier and more secure. Also, the men that my mom married had no children with her. This probably makes it easier to move on (as my real father had nothing to do with us). Maybe they (my mom and dad) are part of that 2%, or maybe the unpredictability of the reasoning behind an A, and marrying/living with the A partner.

I know close details about four affair marriages.

One is a friend who was a college professor of (of all things) religious ethics. He walked out on his wife and young child to marry one of his students. Needless to say, he lost his job and his family. He's still married and claims to be happier than before. It's been, uhm, five years, I think.

The second is a friend who married his second affair partner. In other words, he had one affair that messed up his marriage, moved out after that ended, and started another affair before his divorce was final. That marriage has had some very difficult times, but I think it will probably make it.

The third is my ex's marriage to her new husband. From all that I am able to observe, they are happy, close, and intimate. If I had to guess, I would say that they'll remain married for at least a decade. He is considerably older than she is (12 years), so it might be that the marriage will last for the rest of his life. I don't know whether it will be a happy marriage or not, though.

The fourth is the ex-wife of a friend of mine. They divorced many years ago and she moved a thousand miles away to be with her affair partner. She took their son with her and for some time my friend did not know where his son was. As with most circumstances where someone does Very Bad kid stuff, there is huge animosity between my friend and his ex. I know almost nothing about the ex-wife's marriage, but it had lasted for more than a decade the last I heard about it. My friend is now married to an absolutely wonderful woman and has two kids with her. They're one of the absolutely most adorable couples I know. I haven't seen them in a while, but last I heard, they were doing very well indeed.

You know, I've been reading along with this thread and I only JUST NOW because of tempinsanity's post thought of my dad and stepmother's relationship as affair based. I just never think of it that way. I wonder why.

Now, my biological mom was one of those bad spouses. She is honestly just bad bad bad. Drug abuser, mentally unstable, etc. I don't have a relationship with her and haven't since my oldest was born... almost 12 years ago. There are reasons behind her issues, absolutely, but the fact remains she was a horrible spouse and mother.

After the last few years of my life though I have to wonder how much my fathers infidelity through their 14 year marriage contributed to her decline. From my understanding he was so bad he went out with an old girlfriend on their wedding night. There were numerous affairs throughout the marriage. I know I 'lost it' for a while there. If I had her past, would I have gone off the deep end too? Sorry, ramble there.

The point is, even having been married to a serial cheater (just realized how much a coincidence THAT was...scary) I haven't looked at my father and step mother in any kind of negative way for the way their relationship started. Not in years anyway. In the beginning I hated her. She had been our nanny/housekeeper, was 19 and like a friend to me even though she was 9 years older than me. I was the protector and caretaker of my mom as long as I can remember and this person hurt her and was therefore my enemy. Even though I knew my parents hated each other for years, I wanted them together and him to take care of her.

Fast forward a couple of years, my mothers manipulations and declining ability to live in reality had me looking at my dad and his girlfriend differently. He was a horrible husband to my mother except for the fact he supported her and us in a very comfortable fashion. He wasn't a great father other than as a provider. He took us on few vacations a year, a few shopping trips and gave us great private school educations and whatever we wanted, but we never saw him. He and my step mom travelled all over, ran the businesses and kept their distance from us.

There was a lot of resentment. And yet, she is the one I call on Mother's Day. She is my children's grandmother. She is the one I love. My father and I are very close. I talk to him daily. Over the years.... and it took many years to get to this point... the stability that THEY had became an anchor for me.

Why is that? I hate adultry. It's ugly and destructive and I don't believe any good comes from it. Yet, they are the ones I call family. I have never, as an adult, looked at them as ugly or destructive. They have a good marriage. They've been together for over 20 years. They adopted my nephew when my younger sister abandoned him and are a great family.

So, when I look at them right now and think "Do affair marraiges work out?" I think yes. They can. I think they are in the minority, but can they? Sure. I see it.

Yet, look at what was left in that wake. I hate to write this and feel so disloyal and just plain guilty writing it, but look what happened for them to get that.

My bio mom is crazy as a loon. Not just from this, but I'm sure it made it that much worse and difficult to overcome.

I have three younger sisters. One became a stripper and lost her virginity on the streets at 14. She's been in and out of bad relationships with men her whole life. She's pulled herself together and is now doing great, but she's still with a man who doesn't treat her well. Another sister has three children from three different men (by the time she was 20). My dad is raising one, she left the other two with my bio mom and youngest sister. That youngest sister has been hospitalized umpteen times from men beating her up and she had a little girl addicted to meth a few years back.

While I have certainly led a VERY different life than any of them, I married a serial cheater and chose to stay there for 12 years as he cheated over and over and over (at least 11 times). I did my share of sleeping around right out of high school and was drinking myself silly the whole time. I believe that one of the reasons I turned my life around was that I was the oldest. I had responsibilities that none of the younger girls had. They had to be raised by a child, me, since dad wasn't there and mom wasn't capable.

Now, each of my sisters made choices that led them to where they are or were. Same as I did. I don't blame my dad or step mom for my choices or for my sisters'.

I do wonder though what path they would have chosen at those forks in the road had their life experiences been different. What if dad had spent as much time being a good husband and father as he did going after women and working? Or what if he had divorced her FIRST and then dated my step mom later? Would he have seen what was happening in the home? Would he have spent more time with his children instead of travelling and partying? If the drama of the years following his leaving with my future step mom weren't a major part of our lives, would we all have perpetuated and continued to create drama in our own lives? Would I, or my sisters, have recognized that we were settling for crumbs in the men we chose because they just couldn't stand in a favorable light when held up against our father? We'll never know I guess.

I do know that the man he was back then was not a man to be admired or emulated. The man he is 20 years later IS for the most part.

Those are a lot of what if's to have to live with though. I don't know that those things go through his mind or hers. If so, I bet it's not often as you would have to push them away quickly or be buried under them.

I think I finally realize why my father always scoffed at hearing that children of divorced parents have so many challenges. I never understood how he figured children weren't affected. I think I have a better understanding now. How hard would it be to look at your children and what became of them and know things COULD have been different. To know that your own actions may have helped created the very environment that brought everyone to that point would be horrible.

You know, it doesn't change the love I have for him now. Or the love I have for my step mom. They are both very different now and I don't believe they would make those same decisions now. I don't know that for sure, but I believe it.

Yet when I think "Did their affair marriage work out?" I say yes it did.

I don't know how to answer "Was it worth it?" though.

You ask my xh if he is "happy" and loves his affair wife? He says she's his soulmate...they are very very happy...ON THE SURFACE....he will never say how he cheats on her ramptantly...how she is practically a skeleton/anorexic looking b/c he's crushed her self esteem...and how they are barely functional as people period now...

he was so happy in his new marriage, he cheated on her three times and during one of the two separations, he pursued ME, THE BETRAYED WIFE.....

Now...whether or not a BS was good bad or whatever...IT SAYS VOLUMES ABOUT A PERSON IF THEY ARE ABLE TO END SOMETHING FIRST....if you have a bad R, then END IT WITHOUT CAUSING ANY RESENTMENT OR UNDUE PAIN OR SUFFERING FOR YOUR BS...DON'T CHEAT...IT IS SOOOOO DISRESPECTFUL.

It shows LACK OF CHARACTER. And if you do in fact end up with the affair partner, it is a FORETELLING OF THE FUTURE...SEE HONEY? IF YOU DON'T PLEASE ME 100 PERCENT I'LL DO TO YOU WHAT WE DID TO MY XW...GET IT? WORSHIP ME OR I'LL GO THRU THE DATING DRIVE THRU AND GET THE LATEST COMBO SPECIAL.

DAMMIT PEOPLE...HAVE SOME SELF RESPECT....LEARN HOW TO TREAT YOURSELF WELL AND YOUR KIDS WELL AND YOUR PARTNER WELL...AND IF IT MEANS ENDING A MARRIAGE, THEN DAMMIT END IT WITH RESPECT AND DECENCY AND FAIRNESS...DO NOT ALLOW A THIRD PARTY TO COME INTO IT...END IT AND BEGIN ANEW WITH DIGNITY...IS IT TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR MATURITY? FROM ADULTS? OR ARE WE ALL SO SELF ABSORBED THESE DAYS WE MUST HAVE OUR EN'S AND SEXUAL GRATIFICATION MET ASAP OR WE'LL KICK ON THE FLOOR AND WHINE LIKE BABIES?

WHAT IS SO DAMN BAD ABOUT GETTING A D AND LIVING ALONE? LEAVING FOR NOBODY ELSE? WHAT ABOUT BEING HAPPY FIRST WITH YOURSELF THEN HEALING AND FINDING SOMEBODY AFTER THAT? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

(SPEAKER CRACKLING:)May I take your Order? Welcome to HOSRUS...
WS: Yea, I'd like to order SOMETHING NEW...WHAT YA GOT THAT'S NEW AND CHEAP?
(speaker): WEll we have the sleazy brunette special complete with hair extensions and an outta wedlock baby..or you could go with the "peach lookalike" complete with college degree and blonde hair...or would you just like a side of blonde with your brunette Mr. Vader?"

My own observation is that affair marriages do sometimes 'work', in that the new partners fit better than the old for quite practical reasons (they've picked someone their own age or religion or emotional type this time round).

The majority of affair marriages I know about, 'work' in the sense that the couple stick together, not terribly happy, but determined to show a 'successful'face to the world to justify all the drama and disruption they've caused.

All affair marriages cause pain and destruction, and I imagine most affair couples must either be fairly insensitive to begin with, or have to live the rest of their lives with parts of their consciousness permanently closed down. It seems to me that this is an existence with a limited capacity for love and joy - you can't just close down the 'bad' feelings without switching off the good feelings too. So I believe that they can be 'happy', as long as it's in a 1-3 range, rather than the 1-10 they could hope for without the infidelity.

TA