Because STD's freak me out. I worked in the medical field for about 10 years.

Surely you have something better to do than to think about me @ 2:48 in the mornin'?

LOL...he lives in Australia. It was nearing 6pm the next day there.

All posting times listed are automatically adjusted to your current time zone.

W

BK does not post from the same timezone as where MB originates. He is waaay over on the others side of the world.

L.

CS, you said

"I am firmly convinced that if the wife rather than the husband were the person who stumbled into the forum and posted the tale from her perspective people would have high fived her and condemned her abusive husband."

You are so WRONG- there is never an excuse for infidelity. If an abused wife was here, we would encourage her to get help or get out- but we would NEVER high-five ANYONE for having an affair.

Sir, No sir...on both counts




Interesting that you brought this out. I will take this opportunity to share a theory I developed. (I am a big people watcher.)And, I think you'll get a kick out of it.

The theory has two parts:

Part One --> Certain types of military guys have three wives.
Wife 1-The "Early in the Career" Wife:
She is probably not a college graduate. She may even be a teen ager. He was engaged to her before he left for bootcamp or OCS, and they get married shortly after graduation. He drags her from duty station to duty station. They live on base. Even if she manages to get a job, it's probably part time and low paying. If Mr. Military is an officer, she "volunteers" and attempts to wear her husband's rank when interacting with the wives of lower ranking indviduals (or with military members who are lower on the totem pole than her husband). She can't (or won't) have a career or a life out side "the military."

Wife 2: The "Mid Career" Wife:
She adores men in uniform-especially military men-even the ones with ex wives and child support payments to make. She is gainfully employed and manages to have a life outside the military though. Eventually she files for divorce because she can't deal with some of the more negatve aspects of military life AND / OR because the husband has cheated one too many times...

Wife 3-The "Retirement" Wife:
Ole boy is in the homestretch now and looking forward to retirement. By now, he is making a little more $ because he has risen in rank. They meet and quickly marry. She is involved in "the military" only on an as needed basis-accompanying him to miltary functions wearing the proper attire and smiling when appropriate. She has a career and her own interests. She provides a normalizing force for him because she can help him ease into civilian life since she has one of her own. This marriage usually lasts for one of two reasons-He clings to her as a means / a guide back in to mainstream society or he is already paying out way too much in alimony / child support to screw up again.


Part Two--> Why many military men get married over and over again.
The desire for normalcy / stability: As your assignments, duty stations, co-workers, subordinates, and superiors change you can look to a wife and child (children) for some semblance of stability.

Career: It appears that at mid to higher ranks, single military men (especially officers) do not get promoted as quickly as those who are married. This may be because of bias-There is a belief that a married man is more mature and responsible...Show up at the command's Christmas party or "family day" with some hoochie and you are viewed differently than someone who is accompanied by their wife.

What do you think about my theory?

To directly address your statement and answer your question:

My husband enlisted right before his 18th birthday. I enlisted in my mid twenties. He is 38 and I am 35.

As the founder of this web site states, romantic love is not unconditional (like Jesus' love for you ar a parent's love for a child). That is-there are conditions that must be met for romantic love to continue / not die. It is my belief that honor and loyalty are two of these conditions...at least for me they are.

Specifically: I would never be with someone who left their wife or broke up with their girlfriend for me. This is because I believe that such a man is dishonorable and disloyal, and eventually he would abandon me as well.

I am in no way supporting actions of infidelity. Once again-and I KNOW I have said this at least three times-infidelity is wrong.

Let me say that again:
INFIDELITY IS WRONG.

I was not being supportive of SB's wife. I was attempting to get SB to explore the entire picture.


Any more questions?

ummm no, he admitted to doing nothing more than every married person does on the face of the earth, he LOVEBUSTED. You were so zealous to condemn him as an "abuser" that you took this all out of context into the REALM OF THE RIDICULOUS. Sure, there were lovebusters...on BOTH SIDES. But that is the peeling paint in the girls bathroom on the sinking Titanic.

The affair is the gaping HOLE that is sinking the Titanic, so common sense should dictate that one addresses the most immediate risk and worries about the peeling paint in the girls' bathroom AFTER THE HOLE HAS BEEN SEALED. If that doesn't happen, there will be no peeling paint TO FIX.

It is the same with sbmml;s wife's affair. He cannot even begin to work on the damage caused by lovebusters from BOTH SIDES until the affair is ended. Lovebusters must cease, sure, but the damage caused from them will have no resolution until the affair is resolved. Then recovery can begin. Recovery does not START UNTIL THE AFFAIR ENDS!

But, you do him no favors by coming here and causing a distraction by accusing him of being an "abuser." You are abuser, we are all abusers in that sense, because WE HAVE ALL LOVEBUSTED. [in fact, you are the BIGGEST ABUSER on that thread!]

Please note that he has you completely on ignore now and doens't even want you on his thread anymore. And don't delude yourself into thinking it is because you "speak the truth" and he is avoiding the truth. You don't. You are an annoying distraction who EXAGGERATES the truth out of all semblance to reality, which is a diversion from the REAL PROBLEM.

What is very "frightening" here is your complete lack of objectivity and common sense when it comes to real issues of "abuse." I don't think you would know real abuse if it bit you in the [censored] and you sure don't know the first thing about saving a marriage from an affair.

I would also add that you are in NO POSITION to help anyone with alleged "abuse" problems, Madam, since YOU are an abuser. Start with the lady in the mirror, before you FORCE your unsolicited advice on others.

We ARE interested in sharing with you. You represent the outside community, the community fortunate enough not to have experienced infidelity. Unfortunately, this outside community is often the first community that a recently betrayed spouse seeks out advice. That community is normally dead wrong. Like you, they do not understand nor comprehend the dynamics of infidelity. We'd love to educate you and help you conceive of the truthfulness and accuracy of MB principles so that you can apply them in your marriage and advocate them to others in your life. There are such posters here, JustLearning comes to mind.

I am happy to discuss this stuff with you away from Sbmmal's thread. You'll likely get a lot less bashing when discussing the principles versus seemingly attacking/abusing Sbmmal. Truthfully, your opinions and views were sooooo very wayward/foggy-like that we originally believed you to be Neak's husbands Former OW (hence the first attack and the insinuations at the outset of this thread). Then upon continuation of foggy, wayward view and opinions we suspected you of being Sbmmal's Wayward Wife. Stick around it does happen and they sound JUST LIKE YOU. Your opinions were THAT ridiculous. We still are not completely satisfied you have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Sbmmal's situation. After all we only have your word you are not. Time will tell.

Finally, perhaps it would have been "funny" if the things you were saying and focusing on were not so diruptful, off-track and abusive of Sbmmal. It was hardly your "truth" that struck a nerve, but rather your misconceptions, misfocus, and hurtfulness that did. We are defensive of recently BH's here, this is a safe place...the outside world can tell them to "kick her out" or other type crap, but we'll offer them an alternative and a PLAN to fight infidelity and to restore their marriage. To use one of your arguments, were the Allies promted to fight Hitler cause his "truth" hit a nerve????. Please.

You do humor us, and this debate could be fun because as a non-wayward wife you should, in fact, be rational enough to change your mind. Of course, if you are an abuser, abusers RARELY admit they are wrong and like you said, forcefully and strongly go after those they perceive as abusive. I hope you are open to being wrong, er, mistaken.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- I also need to point out. It's not just Sbmmal that read the words on that thread. At any point in time there are countless lurkers many of whom are Betrayed Spouses fearful to weigh in. To seemingly attack and abuse a poster just can't be tolerated for long. It hurts the boards in general. You'll find, if you stick around, bs don't fly around here. At least, not for long. Good luck

MelodyLane, SB did not use the word "lovebusted", he used the word "abuse"..in the following post:

Post #3053383 - 07/10/06 02:03 AM



I may or may not be an "abuser" on this thread, but let's say you are correct and I am. The key difference here is that I am not trying to have an intimate / romantic relationship with anyone on the thread.

I really wish you would raise the level of your thinking and your posts.

I do not mean to say that your disagreement with me is bothersome-it isn't. I find the level & quality of your arguments / reasoning to be quite sophmoric.

Please disagree, but do so intelligently. For example, don't tell me that SB did not abuse his wife, when publically HE said that he did.

I was not trying to "help" him with his abuse problems. This forum is supposed to provide support and information, but "help" -whether it's emotional, financial, psychological, or legal-needs to come from the professionals.

That being said, you are not going to get me to stop visiting a DISCUSSION FORUM and participating in the discussion from my point of view.

If reading opinions that are different from your own truly bothers you to this extent, I (once again) invite you to use the ignore option.

Interestng...from my perspective your reasoning seems foggy. You should also note that people are entitled to their opinions, without being cyberbullied, cyber roasted / used as a seasoning, and having a thread generated so people could try to find out what is "wrong" with their life since they have the "wrong" opinion.

Quite frankly, I don't care if you think I know SB or his wife. I am not required to prove anything to you.





Really? Then how would you describe what happened to me? LOL


I would say that BS not only flies, but it positively [color:"blue"]SOARS [/color] here-so long as it has enough backing.

Good luck to you ; for you shall need it more than I.

((Shrug))

It's HIS loss.

Apparently the man has a lil' trouble learning from past mistakes.

When you are in pain (and in denial) it's easier and therefore more natural to listen to the co-signers.

But, please note-I will still post my comments, and I just know I can count on one of you to relay what was said-LOL.

CS, there is nothing "intelligent" about your cavalier obession with labeling this man as an abuser or your inability to comprehend that you yourself are an abuser, even though you deny it. Abuse is abuse, no matter where it is committed, or it is not abuse at all. You are an abuser yourself, and as such, have no credibility in this arena.

You can call me sophmoric, but I would consider that a compliment coming from someone who behaves like an angry 13 year old who is obsessed with condemning men as "abusers" by bastardizing the context.

You do victims of REAL ABUSE a grave disservice and make women look like fools by so cavalierly tossing about the abuse card that it now means anything and everything. If I "abuse" a privilege, then I am an "abuser," using your loose, silly standard. [which catches EVEN YOU in the net, yet you somehow don't comprehend this. Oh, I forgot, its only "abuse" when committed against a spouse, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />]

We are here to help people, and if someone is incorrectly labled an "ABUSER," he won't get the help he needs. And that is exactly what has happened here. You have caused havoc and distraction on his thread by wrecklessly and irresponsibly making that accusation against a distraught, despairing man. Very damn cruel, IMO.

Lets look at the horrible misdeeds of this "domestic abuser."

* "I have been overly critical, kept people at a safe distance by not revealing my true self, not shared my feelings with people who wanted to know me deeply when I should've, and gotten overly defensive when called out for having the wrong priorities in my life and my family and KNEW I was wrong, but was too prideful to listen."

* I realized that my behaviors had deeply wounded my wife and prevented the kind of true intimacy that we needed to have a successful marriage. I realized that my behaviors had deeply wounded my wife and prevented the kind of true intimacy that we needed to have a successful marriage. I understand that the controlling behavior is a form of abuse and I as the perpetrator was being abusive.


1. Overly critical

2. Not shared his feelings

3. wasn't a good listener

4. was "controlling"

This describes about everybody who comes here, male and female. These are garden variety lovebusters that most people thoughtlessly commit. I betcha his wife has a list too, which would make her an "abuser." But that does not mean he CAUSED her affair or is somehow PRECLUDED from trying to bust up her affair and save his marriage and you have advised.

This term needs to be used very very carefully, lest it be rendered MEANINGLESS as you have done. The term "abuse" can be used in many contexts, but without clarification, is assumed at its worst, ala wife beater, husband beater. That causes folks to not take you seriously, AS YOU CAN SEE.

He is here for the same reason we all are: to save our marriage from infidelity. Something about which you KNOW NOTHING but strangely feel entitled to counsel others on. Not only do you not have a lick of experience, but you don't even understand MB principles, as evidenced by your bad advice and subjective obsession with labeling this man an "abuser" for committing lovebusters. Not only that, but by your OWN standards, you are an "abuser" too. Sort of diminishes your credibility here, doesn't it?

If my credibility is naught, why the thread dedicated to me and why the constant attempt to convince me to change my mind about this situation?

My opinions carry no more weight than any of yours.


You can try to "explain" what I read (SB's words) to me over and over again, but you should know I have stopped reading your "explainations", since I am pretty certain you have not read what I have posted.

How can I tell? Because you began to repeat some of the same things I have been saying to me as if we were in total disagreement.

In short-one sided communication is not communication at all.

Sugarbritches, since you are so helpful, I am going to return the favor and help you see the error of your abusing ways. Now, don't try and deny it, we are just here to help. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I have taken your advice to heart about "abusers" and noticed a thing or two about a thing or two! Imagine my surprise when I found a wealth of evidence of "abuse!" IN YOUR POSTS!! It seems the most "abusive" person on that thread, by your standards, IS NONE OTHER THAN YOU! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />


Your posted standard-------->____ Criticism (name-calling, swearing, mocking, put-downs, ridicule, accusations, blaming, use of trivializing words or gestures)

1. I am about to ridicule you though: Based upon what you just posted, I can imagine you stomping your right foot with a pacifier in your mouth at this very moment.

2. Interesting...The Nazi's said the same thing.

3. Stated to LadyClueless: I find your screen name to be highly appropriate.


4. Your comment seems quite foolish in light of this fact.

5. Also, the invitation you extended to Believer to talk about me on the side -while comical in a grotesquly dysfuntional sort of way- only serve to show that my comments are striking the string of truth on the banjo of your conscience.

6. It is childish and illogical to try to conclude that something is "wrong" with me.......


7. (In fact, one of the cyberbullies used that word in his post...) My posts consist of my opinions .

8. is a clear sign that you have run short on cogent responses to back up your point of view.

9. spoken to AussiesWife: If you actually read and interpreted my words for yourself rather just being a bandwagoneer, you would find that I am in agreement with you on this main point:

10. It is just my opinion and I am entitled to it, and no amount of cyberbullying or bandwagoneering will make me change my mind.





Your posted standard-------->____ Claiming "the truth," being the authority, defining her behavior, using "logic"



1. Another item which sems to be forgotten here: The success of such a difficult undertaking hinges upon both parties being determined to dispel any illusions about what the real problems are. I see you (and others) as encouraging the continuation of fantasy rather than fact for SB, and this will not help him.

2. The sad and bad part of all of this is the one sided perspective being provided by many of the respondents here:


3. I honesty think you have received and are still receiving crappy advice here...Actually-you can't call co-signing and high fiving with a few disparaging remarks about your wife thrown in for good measure "advice."

4. Justuss, I am familiar with the concepts, and I have concluded that high fiving does not qualify as support.SB was blindsided because of all the "support" he received in this thread.

5. Truthfully, I am not sure that SB is actually ready to put the principles into practice. To be honest, he gave alot of lipservice to self-change; however, underneath it all I perceive a continuing focus upon his wife's wrongdoing and getting his "Wayward Wife" back to normal rather than a desire to seek out and address root causes. "Normal" for them seemed to include him controlling her and her simmering about it.





CinnamonSugar: It ain't pretty, is it? If we were having a contest, you would be the grand prize winner! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> This is a clear case of TRANSFERENCE, accusing others of what you DO! hello kettle!!

Don't go down the wrong path: The damage caused by emotional abuse often rivals the damage caused by physical abuse. To be blunt: There is no distinction. Abuse is abuse.

Bancroft says that often abusers attempt to minimize what they have done / are doing by comparing their actions to abuse that is allegedly worse.

Bancroft also reveals another surprising tidbit: Often the most abusive women are the first to condemn other abusive men. [ain't that the God's honest truth?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> This bancroft chick is one smart gal!]

I think that there is hope for you as long as you do not give in to the very real and natural urge to blame others(if even indirectly) for your choices. And as long as you do not entertain any illusions about what you did and why. Jes' remember, DENIAL ain't a river in Egypt! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

i refer you to this link: (visit www.lundybancroft.com)

No it couldn't. You folks are damaged from your experiences. That much is clear. I don't see a debate about infidelity with any of you as transforming into "fun."



That's right-because if I were RATIONAL (that is using logic rather than emotion ) I would be in agreement with you.

The funny thing here is, as someone who has not been affected by infidelity it is more likely that I am thinking more "rationally" -that is UN emotionally-about this than any of you.

By the way-how on earth do you decide what to believe?

I mean-you didn't believe me when I said that I don't know SB or Mrs SB but you believe me about not snatching my husband from between someone elses legs?

If we can't make you leave, then we'll just need to change your point of view. Again, I hope you are open to being wrong.

Sbmmal did NOT admit he was abusive. He stated some of his actions were a "FORM" of abuse and then mis-applied a logical conclusion, which an abuser wouldn't do, to say..."I exhibited "abusive" behaviors thus I am an abuser.

If you accept HIS statement and logic as fact, then you too, are an abuser by your own standards. Melody's arguments are not sophomoric rather they are dead on. You really are saying the same thing about yourself. Unlike, Sbmmal, you didn't "admit" you demonstrated abusive behavior but that wasn't necessary cause WE SAW IT AND CALLED YOU ON IT. Since YOU exhibited some "forms of abuse" are you ready to admit YOU are abusive????

The forms of abuse you posted even are meant only to be examples of abusive type behavior. No single item in there is abusive by itself otherwise...I admit, I'm abusive, cause I gave my wife the silent treatment a few times, acted independently on ocassion, etc. Now you can Quote me over and over "Mr W admitted he's abusive" (I won't mind because I am no longer a wreck emotionally and know I am not abusive...whereas Sbmmal is distraught, IN IRAQ and didn't deserve your picking his words apart and inappropriately bashing him)

Finally, if Sbmmal was truly abusive (and I've seen some guys in here I was suspicios of), would he really be calmly on the computer doing introspection and researching a Plan to restore his family (a peaceful one at that) OR would he be obsessing and ranting about OM and what he intended to do to him and her upon return. Looking for websites like How to hire a hitman. A truly controlling abuse husband would NOT stand for this loss of control. He'd have buddies whopping OM's butt today. Calls would be made, threats and innuendo flying all about. No, you got Sbmmal wrong. Despite her abuse of him, he still loves her and his child and wants to save this marriage and live up to his vows. Sbmmal is an honorable man doing the right thing. NOT an abuser, just a human and imperfect.

Mr W

Caramelthongs, If you feel that I am abusing you, you should divorce me; it's the only way out.

My abuse of you will likely get worse, and I may even begin to abuse the kids.

You and I both know you can't defend your own silly standard of "abuse" so you aren't even going to try. I don't blame you. It was only intended towards certain others, just NOT YOU of course, which renders it MEANINGLESS as a standard. And that is how any thinking person will view it.

Your rationalization is that "abuse" is only "abuse" when committed against a spouse but NOT "abuse" when committed when others! That is some interesting logic ya have there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I will try punching my neighbor in the face and then explain to the police that its "not really abuse because he's not my spouse!"

I wonder how they will like that "logic?"

Ya know, Sugar, I don't think that will fly in Texas somehow. Bullcrap has a short shelf down here. We might better just accept that DENIAL isn't just a river in Egypt and face your problem, huh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Honesty about your problem is the FIRST STEP towards recovery. BUT, if you don't want to face your problem:


It's [i]YOUR[i} loss.

Apparently you have a lil' trouble learning from past mistakes.

When you are in pain (and in denial) it's easier and therefore more natural to listen to the co-signers.

Right, Sugar? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />