My WH is constantly making snide remarks such as:
Now you can talk to him in the open. You don't have to hide anymore.
I hope the two of you can make a go of it.
You can stick him up your [email]a@#.[/email]
The next time you're at church you need to look at that SOB and think "this is why my M is over".

and on and on and on

The guy has a g/f. We've had no R. I don't talk to him. I have no contact w/him at all, none whatsoever.

My H talks to women all the time; OW, 2nd XW, other women that he has picked up along the way. Lots of women, lots of drama surrounding them.

Is he accusing me of this b/c he's continuing to cheat?

The lastest bomb shell was last week when he said that someone had told him that I was talking to someone and he wasn't talking about the OM at church. SO NOT TRUE. NO. NO. NO. It absolutely isn't true so is he making this up?

When he said that I said "tell me where and when, have this person there and I want them to say this in front of me". He immediately said okay then we will also confront OM about the R you had w/him. I said no of course. We've talked about the OM until I want to throw up. You're accusing me of seeing someone and your not talking about the OM. This is a total lie and I want this person to say it to my face. Then he says that doing that would make it very difficult for me. What on earth is the man talking about? What drama!!!

Now he's saying he loves me w/all his heart, he wants to be in my life, wants to make our M work but, b/c I can't get past what he has done (a second A), that we need to end it.

He still continues to lie about some stuff. Either he lied to people who came back and told me what he said about other women or he's lying to me. I have every reason to believe that he has had at least 4 affairs, possibly 5, since we've been separated. He gets way too friendly w/OW that he comes in contact w/hence all the As. 3 of the 4 were w/women he met via our company. Perfect job for a serial cheater which is exactly what I think he is.

If he is a serial cheater (cheated on first wife, cheated on me first year of marriage, cheated multiple times I believe during our separation) is there any hope of this never happening again? Is there hope of never being cursed out again, never being lied to again, never being threatened with exposure of past again?

I know I'm grasping at straws. I want to be happy again. I want to laugh again and love again and feel safe again. I want to enjoy life again. I want to be honest again. I want my life to be totally transparent again.

Is it possible w/him?

NOPE!

Does that answer your question? You are separated, he should supposedly(sp?) be on his best behavior to win your heart back and this is the kind of crap he's dishing out? Yeesh!

I'm going to zero in on one statement you made in this last post "I want to feel safe again". When was the last time you felt safe in this relationship? What was different with his behavior at that time?-Read-how far off is his behavior now compared to that time...that's how much chance you have of feeling safe in this relationship again.

When was the last time you felt safe without this relationship? Do you believe you can create this feeling again on your own? Wouldn't it be better to be on your own, perhaps indefinitely, than to be in such an abusive relationship? Can you give yourself the assurance to feel safe, the love to feel happy and the honesty to feel transparent without him? Can you begin to dream of ways to enjoy your life without him in it?

It's easy for me to ask these questions as I'm constantly trying to answer them for myself. I understand the fear, I live it everyday, I understand the grasping at straws, I spend my time thinking "if only...". I'd rather be spending my time being happy.

I hope we can both get there someday soon..

apl

L2S - I am so sorry you are going through this. Please take a look at the links in my sig line, especially the first one. I think you will be amazed at what you see. If nothing else helps you, this might.
Mulan

Orchid: Yes. Let him now u r quite aware of his game plan and it stinks.



Orchid: Now that's a load of crap. Throw it back to him and ask if he would buy that line.....tell him. If he says yes, he's a liar in the worse way. If he says no, then tell him why in the world would he even consider you would fall for such a load of crap. That's what I had t/d to mine when he babbled such nonesense. See the Ws or Xws tries to use a nice line or 2 but can't seem to be sincere since they are still babbling from their nether regions.


[quote}He still continues to lie about some stuff. Either he lied to people who came back and told me what he said about other women or he's lying to me. [/quote]

Orchid: There u go. Call him on it. Ask him who in their right mind can love their family and continue to lie without being a fool?



Orchid: U deserve t/b happy and he must put the effort to make you happy and safe. Is it possible with him? Ask him.

He needs to give you a plan that you can live with.


L.

Reverse Babble required here, and I wouldn't care if they are lovebusters:

"WHAT heart? You don't have one!"

"Want to make our M work? For you, but not for ME?"

"I can't get past your affairs? No, I can't get past your continuous abusing me."

"Yes, we need to end it, so sign the damned papers already!"

L2S,

I know you're hanging on to a dream here, but the problem is that your "dream" is a nightmare.

Your H is not worth 1 more second of your life. All I can see is that he is a cruel, hateful, shallow excuse for a man. He is gaslighting you! Don't let him!!

If he won't sign the divorce papers as you've previously agreed on, can you not push the divorce through with grounds? The only way, I think, that you will get out of this marriage quickly is by going for his jugular.

As for whatever you did in your teenaged years, it does not matter NOW. If anything, you have GROWN from the experience and are not the same person anymore. You are a good, decent, God-loving/fearing woman, and that is all that matters. I have heard testimony from people who did awful things in their lives prior to being saved, and have seen NOTHING but admiration for them...BECAUSE they turned their lives around and, with God behind them, DEFEATED those demons.

I know that this is something you do not want to do, but take the power of blackmail away from your H. Consider going to your pastor and confessing all to him. Ask God to give you the strength to be able to get up and give TESTIMONY about your life. I believe that doing so can help you in more ways than one:

• You need not fear your H's telling everyone...with his "spin" on it.
  
  It will relieve you of your burden and guilt.
  
  You will become a stronger person for it.
  
  And, also, I believe it will help you draw closer to God.

Have you ever considered that Satan is trying to harm you through your H? Think about it...your H is making false accusations against you and threatening harm to you for goign to church. Sounds pretty demonic to me!

Your H is trying to destroy your soul, L2S. Ask God for the strength to stop allowing it.

Your H is bad news. Please stay away from him!

I'm praying for you.

Mulan,
I read the first one. Wow!! They've met my WH.

I won't insult anyone's intelligence by saying that I'm perfect and that I have done nothing wrong in this M but, I am a codependent woman dealing with a P/A man.

There were some key points that really jumped out at me. Examples are charmer, control through anger, trying to make me feel sorry for him, difficulty in relationships, multiple partners, etc.

It was a very revealing article. I believe we are at the end of the road. I have no desire to be with him. I feel sorry for him and I care about him but I truly do not believe that I have it within me to resume a relationship w/him.

I cannot get past all that he has done. So sad.

I haven't truly felt safe and secure in this M since I found out about the first A. That was 8 years ago; married for 9. There have been periods of reasonable happiness but no true feelings of being secure in the M. There has always been turmoil and struggle. Problems with kids, his job situations, health issues, struggles w/church, issues w/family members, disagreements over major purchases (vehicles), his obsessive/compulsive ways (handwashing, can't walk on carpet w/shoes on), and on and on.

It's over. I need to keep saying that. It's over. It's over. It's over. That was easy. The hard part is taking that final step. Signing the papers and getting my stuff out of the house.

It's hard b/c I know that he is already on to someone else. Even though he accuses me daily of having a R w/someone, I don't. I really think a part of the reason is to make himself feel better about what he has done/is doing. If he can convince himself that I'm having/have had an A, then he's justified in doing what he's doing.

Orchid:

I truly don't think he's capable. He doesn't want to own the devasation I feel over what he has done. He had an 8 month long A w/OW all the while cursing, threatening, blackmailing me. Blasting me about talking w/OM (and it was just talk), threatening me into not going to church b/c I thought he might show up, incredible nastiness all the while he was having a major A.
He did some of this around my family. He was so bold it got back to me through my family.
He would call one woman on the cell phone or she would call him. He would put her on speaker phone and essentially have phone sex w/her in front of his son, brother, cousin. Then, I would go around these people not knowing what was going on.
He involved the next door neighbor. She knows all about all the OW (plural).

Lady Clueless:


You are absolutely right. What I thought was my dream come true has turned into my worst nightmare. He really is something else.

He has been pushing me for my work cell phone bills. He thought that's how I have been talking to OM. So, I finally gave them to him. Nothing to see b/c there is no OM. Tonight I asked for his. Wouldn't you know, he threw it away. Liar.

Then, he got mad b/c I'm not taking his crap anymore so he told me to leave him alone, we need to sign papers, he has resumed conversation w/his 2nd XW, the OW he had the 8 month A with and is now talking to another one as well. It's sad b/c he's just going to use the XW to do paperwork for him. He'll have her balancing his checkbook, a little sex on the side to keep her around. He'll be sleeping w/the OW and messing w/the third. Think I know who she is too. A real Romeo that H of mine.

He really is cruel, hateful and shallow. I've got so many people, here on MB and at home that are telling me to run, run, run. I really need to take their advice. Deep down inside where you're really brutally honest w/yourself I know that he is bad for me, he isn't going to change and, if I did go back, it would only be a matter of time before he is involved in another A. I don't believe anyone will ever be able to make him happy enough that he won't stray.

Hello life2short,

I haven't read your whole story, but have skimmed through this thread a bit this evening. I hear some similarities in your H to the way my now exH behaved. He went after me as the bad guy, laid heavy guilt on me, and claimed innocence, when really, he was a lying cheater all along.

Finally, after beating myself up and clinging to a marriage that was long dead for almost 2 years of separation, I woke up and decided I'd had enough. I thought I missed HIM, but really, I missed the man that I had fallen in love with originally, I missed the husband that had once treated me with love and respect. Once I finally accepted the fact that he was gone (abducted by aliens as some would say on here), never to return, it was a bit easier to walk away.

When you said, "I miss the man I met and married," it reminded me of when I finally had the epiphany that the man I met and married was gone, and I couldn't do anything to bring him back. I'd tried for almost 2 years, and it wasn't working, so it wasn't about to change.

Perhaps it's time to mourn the loss of the man you met and married and once had a loving relationship with. It sounds like he is gone.

Take care,

Jen:)

So r u convinced he isn't recovery material?

L.

I realized today that I am living a pattern that was started early in our dating relationship.

I honestly believed that heaven opened up and he fell out. We came from similar backgrounds, liked some of the same weird foods, liked same things, etc. etc.

We met in July. In one month he was telling me he loved me.

Shortly thereafter started talking about M. I told him early on that I wanted to date at least two years before we seriously considered M. He pushed and pushed and pushed. Now, if you ask him, he would say he didn't but I swear he did ALOT. So, I caved and we married 7 months after we met.

He also started pushing me to have sex. I was separated in Jan 94, divorced in Feb 05 and dated no one until I met him in Jul 96. I wanted to do what was right as a Christian and didn't want to go there but he basically told me that he couldn't go w/no sex and that if I wouldn't he would find someone else. So, I caved. I was so infatuated w/him and felt that I would die if I lost him.

Funny that I thought about that today. He is pushing me now saying if I'm not going to have sex w/him he will go elsewhere because he can't live w/o it.

He won't show me cell bill which clearly indicates that he has been talking to OW (plural). Otherwise, why hide it?

So, this has really been a bad R from the start. I just was too lonely and too infatuated to think clearly. He was so charming. I see now that he was putting his spin on everything and all the problems that ever occurred in his life we somebody else's fault; never his.

I wish I had waited and had listened to the lone soul that tried to tell me to wait. But, I wasn't listening to anyone. I was IN L-O-V-E!!!!!

So, he's been pushing me to show him my work cell bills. So, I did. Nothing there; nothing to hide.

Then I asked for his last one. "I threw it away."

Me - Okay, so let's go online and print it.

Him - That won't work. It's locked out.

I've been praying specifically that God would show me His will. Let me know, see what to do. M or D.

On an offchance, I tried to log on to online cell account. What do you know? Got in. Printed bill.

The other night, he said he was talking to OW, 2nd XW and had started talking to someone else as well. Then, he retracted that and said he was just being nasty. Said he couldn't remember last time he talked to his 2nd XW.


Liar. Liar. Liar. He's been talking to 2nd XW lots as well as OW and another one I know about. Lots of times over last month. Same w/OW. Been going to her house. Been going to her parent's home; went last Sunday to her mom's birthday dinner.

So, here's where I am. I am going to contact attorney Monday.

I know he is going to be incredibly nasty. I would imagine he will start the suicide talk again. But, I need to push forward.

What I need to know is what resources you know of that can help me heal, forgive and work on myself so that I don't allow this crap into my life ever again. How can I undo what I've patterned in front of my awesome daughter so that she doesn't make the same mistakes.

Any advice or resources will be greatly appreciated.

I believe I am codependent. My WH is passive agressive. I really don't want to ever be this way again.

L2S,

I have been lurking on the thread, and just had to add my two cents.

1. In order to get yourself to the point you need to be, you need a focus. That focus is your daughter.
-What do you want to teach her about men?
-What do you want to teacher her about being a strong woman?
-When she is 25 and ready to be married, what will you want her to remember about this event? Your fear, or your strength?

Now, do the things in this divorce it will take to teach her those things. Stand up for yourself in an assertive (not aggressive) way. Know what you need. Plan for your future. Lead your daughter and yourself to where you know you need to be. And be strong enough that she knows she can rely on your strength for herself, because she will need you.

2. Know that he is an adult. He can figure out how to balance a checkbook and do paperwork. Or, he can hire someone to do that. He is a big boy, and although you both want to believe he needs YOU, he can take care of himself.

3. The threats to kill himself are done to control you, as are all of the nasty remarks, lovebusters, yelling, jerking you around with the divorce paperwork, I-love-you/I-hate-you mood swings, crap with the OM accusations he knows aren't true, etc. Your responses show that he can still control you, which is exactly what he wants. He wants to control you, and show YOU that he still can.

Every time you respond to him by fighting back or crying or getting upset, he WINS.

Stop letting him win.

4. Take control of your life. Getting your own account is a terrific start. Get your own place, and have someone there to help you move your stuff out, don't do it alone(the Sheriff's department or Police can help, or if you plan to keep the house in the divorce, HE should be the one moving out - check with your attorney before you make plans in this area). Only talk to him through the attorney. The advice here has been great in that regard!

5. Fear is also controlling you. Don't be afraid of what you don't know. Look at your life for the last 2.5 years - you do know what that looks like, right? It sounds like a huge pile of smelly garbage that has been rotting in the sun. Decomposing, and somebody just keeps heaping more crap right up there on top. But L2S goes out there every day to see if she can make it smell better? (Sorry, the only analogy that came to mind...) You can't. It is still the same, and it's not getting better.

Don't fear the next thing. You are in charge of what comes next, and you make the plans for it! You can have the rest of your life be anything you want it to be. Whatever you want - so choose for it to be SPECTACULAR, BEAUTIFUL, LOVING, WARM, FRIENDLY, AMBITIOUS, ENERGETIC, RELAXING, HEALTHY, HAPPY, FULFILLING............and most of all, the best place in the world for your daughter to grow up.


6. Stay with MB. You're getting some wonderful support.

I'll stop talking now.

SB

AWESOME advice, Schoolbus!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

L2S, I hope you print this, and read it over and over! I completely support SB's advice, 100%. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

(((L2S)))

Schoolbus,
Thanks. I need the reinforcement.
You're right about that huge pile. It's junk he's been feeding me over and over. So sad that none of it is true, either him loving me or me seeing someone else.

He just wants to control me and I have allowed it for so long. I know what's to come and I really need to get off the merry-go-round. There will be plenty of needy women just like me who will willingly help him and take his junk. He doesn't need me and my DD and I surely don't need him.

I have great MB friends and great friends and family here who will support me all the way; already have been.

Hey Jen.
I'm ready to move forward. As so many have said here SO MANY TIMES <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I need to take the next step. Nothing is left.

He just called starting his usual "are you going to church" Sunday ritual. I really wish someone here could tell me what is wrong w/him that he does this all the while knowing that he's talking to OW, going to see them, etc.

I have no doubt he was w/one last night or will be this afternoon. He said a vague "going visiting" when I asked what he was doing today; didn't really care just trying to get the subject off me and church.

Maybe I can get him on the phone tonight and go over the last set of papers and get them to the attorney tomorrow. No matter how much I daydream about our dating relationship (because if I'm totally honest with myself - except for pockets of time that lasted maybe 3-4 months at a time if that - my M w/him has been pretty crappy from the start) either the man I thought he was is gone or he never really existed; it was all just a game.

My DD has a fall break from school in late October. I've already asked for the time off work (she doesn't know - I'm going to surprise her) and we're going to go somewhere; maybe North Carolina. She loves the new mustangs (so do I) and I thought about renting one for the trip. She deserves so much more than I've given her over the past few years. I can't erase any of the crap she's gone through or get back for her the lost years but, I can make the ones going forward some of the best she's had. That needs to be my goal.

I need to:
buy a house
work on myself getting more emotionally and physically healthy (not overweight but could use some good hard exercising to firm up)
she and I can exercise together
start planning a 16th birthday party - next yr but it will be here soon
get my life back (no - take my life back)

I'm nervous, scared, sad and excited all at the same time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I never wanted this to happen but, I truly believe that my M was over the day I walked out the door to our house with my clothes packed in the car. Absolutely nothing has changed and in many cases things have gotten signficantly worse.

I played a part in the worsening by not doing a Plan B when I saw that being nice wasn't going to work. I have to say that he said so many things that sounded so good but it was always followed by so much nastiness that all the nice was negated.

He continues to say that it's all my fault b/c I talked to the OM at church. Looking back, I shouldn't have but I did. It never went anywhere but he has clamped onto that as the reason for our broken M. When he's trying to get me to come back and work on the M he says it's all his fault, he takes full responsibility, I'm the greatest woman in the world. But, when he sees that I'm not responding he immediately starts on the OM and how he did what he did only after he saw me talking to the OM.

Well, got more longwinded than I meant to. Hope you have a great day.

How's everything going with you? I always fail to ask that b/c I'm so wrapped up in my own life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

As usual I got the traditional Sunday VMs b/c I told him I was going to church.

hope you have fun
hope it's worth it to you
I wasn't doing anything or planning to talk to anyone but you have to keep trotting your a#$ out there.
Hope you can work it out with him.
You know where I'll be.

Such a liar. He's been talking to OW and XW all the time.

L2S,

And you listen to the voicemail? There's a delete button, girl. USE IT - before you listen. IF there's any important message, he will call back and leave the important part. You can always use the "oh, the machine is acting up" excuse.

Or, just straight up tell him the truth:

"I hit delete the moment you go into your line about your fantasy OM. Anything you say after that is lost - so if you have anything to say that is important, you will have to say it first."

If you do anything other than that, HE WINS.

And you are not setting the example you need to set, you are not in control, and you are not leading for your daughter. Remember that.

Take control. You control the voice mail you listen to. Step one.

And go to church, without reservation. Your relationship with God is your right. If he was that concerned about it, perhaps he should have considered going with you back then - TWO YEARS AGO - when he could have, should have, done something about his marriage, IF he had really wanted to work on it.

Sounds like a WS who has realized his BS has begun to find her way out of the maze he built, and he is panicking. His mood swings, attempts to blame you and then woo you back are nothing more than smoke and mirrors. He has come to understand and see that HE is really at fault here, and he just can't stand it. Better to throw it back at you. Don't fall for it.

Life really is too short to live like you have for 2.5 years. Don't waste any more time in this sitch. Run while you have the energy, and look for the sun. It's shining out there for you, I promise.

SB

Hey, L2S. I'm doing fine. X-fiancee and I have been broken up since April, and I've come along way emotionally since then. I love him, but I don't "need" him. Life has been peaceful.

I think once you allow yourself to detach from your WH, his comments won't have as much of an effect on you as they do right now. Infact, you'll find yourself blowing him off, anytime you hear from him. It gets old, and the routine you are in with him at the present is still familiar, until it is finally broken.

I know you are hurting. And I'm so sorry for that. I believe that by you making the new plans for your future, is truly taking the next steps in healing. And your daughter's 16th b-day is an AWESOME start. She will remember your strength and wisdom, as she enters into womanhood. You are doing right by her, by taking the steps needed, to assure the safety and wellbeing of yourself and your daughter.

Keep moving ahead, and don't allow your WH to distract your attention away from your daughter and onto him. Your daughter is FIRST. He can worry about himself.

You'll do good, L2S!! You've come along way, Honey!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

(((L2S)))

Jen

Went to church. OM wasn't even there. Went to lake w/my family afterward to work on cabin being built.

Got text message from WH:
U finalized ur choice. Maybe u can feel better n relieved now! Got what u wanted! Now u can have Mr XXX openly!

What a jerk. What a sad man.

Schoolbus. You were right. He should have been going to church w/me. I used to beg him to go. It got to the point where when I started getting ready and he wasn't and I asked him if he was going, he would say "You're not my mother". So, I stopped asking. The very last time I asked before I moved out I told him that I would not ask again. Told him I wanted him to go and that I would be going but I wouldn't ask any more. He went only a handful of times after that.

He's trying to throw the blame on me all the while he's talking w/OW (plural). He doesn't know that I've seen the latest phone bill. He's such a liar telling me that he couldn't remember the last time he talked to his XW; bull. He's talked to her at least a dozen times, sometimes for 40 minutes at a time. The OW he had A with, dozens of times. The one for casual sex, he called her at least twice.

Ya'll pray for me. My intent is to get revised draft to attorney tomorrow and hope that a final draft will be ready for signature this week.

God help me. I'm done. I can see now that his pattern is to try to hurt me whenever I don't do what he wants me to do. He will punish me w/inappropriate relationships or at least saying that he's going to go to her house, etc. whenever I go against his will.

I am not good for him and he is not good for me. I don't need his constant drama.