To answer your question, no, your stbxh is not an honorable man who wants his M to work out. I believe he is in more fear of his financial situation, or losing his "meal ticket".

I say to follow your lawyer's advice about the compromise. I know you feel like you'd be giving up even more than you already have. But basically the only thing you'd really be giving up is all of this heartache and grief he's been causing you. Losing the rest is small compared to what he's already taken from you emotionally.

As far as what he can or can not afford for himself, that's on HIM. He's a grown man who can figure out his own dilemas as far as taking care of himself. HE owns that, not YOU. You are not responsible for his "well-being". You are, however, responsible for your daughter's and yourself.

The comment about looking at the OM, (which I have trouble using the term "OM", because he never WAS one), and thinking to yourself, "this is why your M ended", well if you must respond with anything to that, then you could tell him to look in the mirror, as THAT is the REAL reason for the end of your marriage. But, I wouldn't bother even responding to him. It's truly pointless, and just feeds into his sick behavior.

Anyway, you sound good, and I'm behind you all the way! Keep moving forward, and eventually, this will be all behind you, and you'll have a new beginning to look forward to, with YOU and your daughter! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> YAY!!

Good luck and keep us posted!! (((L2S)))

Jen

I wish I could just snap my fingers or wiggle my nose and all this be over with.

He's still insisting that he loves me and wants M to work but that I don't and that I haven't given him any indication that it was possible so that he didn't know he wasn't supposed to talk to OW and XW!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Went online and got this month's cell bill. But, according to him, he hasn't talked w/them except just a couple of times and then not R talk. Talked w/XW about helping w/company paperwork and about attorney stuff. Talked w/OW about ??? If he thought there was no hope and that's why he thought OK to talk w/OW then why give me such grief about church? He didn't have a good answer.

Today, he said he had to go to OW's b/c her daughter needed advice about something related to remodeling a house. I didn't know my WH was the only man in a town of more than 100,000 that could answer her D's questions! I'm impressed.
Of course OW wasn't going to be home. And that's supposed to be of comfort? If he wanted his M to work he wouldn't be within a country mile of any of them.

L2S, are you having second thoughts about this?

If not, then I would say that you're still pretty involved in his comings and goings, as he is with yours.

Whether your M would work out or not, he will ALWAYS have these types of "outings", where he has to go off and "help" someone. I don't believe that will ever change. If it could, (change, that is) it would have long ago, many times over.

(((L2S))) I know this is difficult, and I wish you strength with whatever you decide. Hang in there.

I've had a gazillion second thoughts but, the thought that keeps recurring is that he would have made his life transparent, he would have left them alone, he would have made positive changes if he wanted me in his life. He didn't and hasn't.


You're right. We are both all in each other's lives. I don't think either of us knows how to let go. For him, it's advantagous to keep me around; help w/company paperwork, still on insurance, etc. I want to let go; just don't really know how. I need a permanent plan B.


Again, you're right. He will always excuse and justify for himself what he would never tolerate from me. The typical double standard.

I wish I could file and disappear. Reappear when it's all over and he's my XWH. I know that everything is going to cost me in money or emotional anguish. He's going to make getting my stuff from the house absolutely miserable. He will make sure that he's there and that he makes nasty comments to hurt. He will play the game to the end.

Every time we get close to an agreement, he throws something else into the mix. I really don't want to fight it in court; throwing bad money after good. I'm beginning to think though that that may be my only recourse to getting out of this mess.

Wish me luck and say a prayer. Thanks for hanging in there w/me.

I've been praying for you, L2S.

If you're worried about his behavior while obtaining your things, take a police escort with you. You don't have to face it alone.

Try to remember that the only real loss out of all of this, will be heartache, lies, grief, physical/emotional abuse and a lifetime of double standards. Only you know what the list of gains would be, L2S. But from what I've been observing for all this time, I truly think these "losses" outweigh the gains.

(((L2))) You are in my thoughts and prayers, Sweetie.

Thanks Jen. I really, really need all the prayers I can get right now.

I think my mood matches the weather - rainy.

He's begging now. Continuing to say he would do ANYTHING to prove his love. He doesn't have to have any of them in his life. He would find a job and close the business. He would do anything.

I don't believe him. If I had no children or family ties I would move far, far away. I need peace. I am bumping up against time and can't afford to keep dragging this out. I wish I had had the nerve to do a plan B but I didn't. I could then know what is right for me without guessing or thinking I know.

I'm a mixed up girl. Don't think Rs are for me.

(((L2S))) You're in my thoughts and prayers. You've come along way, just since I've been here. You'll make the best choices for yourself. Have faith! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks.

I don't feel like I've come a long way. I don't cry as often as I used to. I'm not quite as involved w/WH as I used to be.

I'm still just as confused though.

Went to church tonight. The message was on being like minded and walking together. Not necessarily talking about M but about Christian fellowship. Guess I applied it to my situation. Minister said that it's consistent outward action that shows the inner person (my paraphrasing). Said that if you hit your thumb w/the hammer and curse that's what's inside.

I told you that yesterday my WH told me he was going to OWs home to meet w/her daughter about some remodeling but that she wasn't (OW) going to be there. Well, tonight after church talked w/WH. He asked if church was good and if I got to see my BF. Told him OM was there but that I did not talk to him or go near him.

His response? "You know what I've got to say about it".
Me - "No, what?
Him - You can go to h*ll and hung up.

What?????

I went to church where many people were who could report back to him on my every move.

He went to OWs house in a gated community w/no one around and she could just have easily been there. PLUS I saw dozens of calls to and from her and XW on last cell bill but I can go to h*ll?

What is up w/that?

I am so pathetic. Apparently I believe that I deserve this junk in my life. I apparently believe that if I give him up and walk away I will have no one else who would even be remotely interested in being w/me. I am my own worst enemy.

I need a backbone transplant. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I think it would be more important for YOU to have an interest in you, than a man. A man's importance of you should be secondary, or farther down the list. Fear of being alone is normal, as long as it isn't a deciding factor in your situation. You could actually find some peace in some solitude.

His double standards are pretty much irrelevant at this point. It's there, and exists. What matters now, is if you are willing to accept that behavior enough to live with it forever, or to dismiss it and move on. Those are the only two options concerning he and his behavior. Because, unfortunately, it will ALWAYS be there, in one form or another.

(((L2S)))

Jen,
I really need to get an email account set up so I can email you; work one only at this point.

Do you believe that a person in their early 40s who has "Been this way" most of their life has the capacity to change?

I guess that's the part I really struggle with. Can he change? I see a lot of anger, a lot of nastiness, a lot of spitefulness in him. I haven't seen long-term change that would give me hope.

He has the ability to make me feel sorry for him. I wish I didn't. I guess that's the codependency peeking out. I'm so used to fixing everything for him but, I won't be there to do so.

He pulls at my hearstrings but, other than that, I have had no real desire to go back home at any point during this separation. I cannot imagine living again under that pressure 24/7.

What is the matter with me that I stay in this situation; maybe not IN it but not OUT of it either?

L2S, one major thing to remember is that if he ever DID change, it would have to be something that would come from deep within HIM. There isn't anything YOU can do to make this happen. And he certainly won't be changing anytime soon, as long as he's allowed to have contact with you.

Frankly, I believe that if he ever were to change, (and that's a HUGE "IF"), it would only be after he had gone a very long time without any contact with you. There would need to be so much distance between the two of you, that he would be able to live alone with himself enough to see how miserable and sick he truly is.

BUT...that's a longshot, L2S. And if you would have to go to these types of lengths to see someone change, then maybe it's time to re-think how you wish to spend the rest of your life. Because chances are, (even if he did change) you would have to repeat all of the above over and over again, just to keep him in line, and THAT would be EXHAUSTING to have to maintain that type of behavior on a permanant level. You would always have to find ways to make that change "stick".

Bottom line, you have a daughter that needs all of that energy and attention and deserves it so much more than your H. Try to keep your focus on her and her needs and let that be your inspiration to move forward with what you know is right in your heart.

I would like to chat with you thru e-mail, so I can give you some info. that would help. But I'm afraid that info. wouldn't be appropriate on this site, beings it's not actually marriage building material. It's mostly of co-dependency. So if you do actually get an account set up, let me know, and I'll write to you.

(((L2S))) Thinking of you and sending good thoughts your way!

I'm pushing forward but am going to make sure he's in agreement w/everything before I go to the attorney again. Just got a bill from attorney; almost $2000 and nothing has been filed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

He's running through the entire gamut of emotions. Mad, sad, contrite, tearful, suicidal talk, etc. Nothing's working. I actually feel sorry for him. I don't want that life.

I hope to pin him down this weekend w/what he will settle for and what he'll sign. Every time we get close he brings up something else. Right now it's the $ put in a college fund for my D versus what was set aside for his D and S. They got other stuff in lieu of $ b/c neither are in college but now he says it was b/c he was mad at the time.

I really want this over. I want my life back. I want a home. I want my D to have a home.

Thanks for hanging in there w/me. I will try to set up an email account tonight if I have time. Helping D w/school projects.

Later. Have a great weekend.

You will have your life back. It's just going to take some time, but it will happen.

You and your D have a great weekend, too!

Well, here's the gist of my weekend and my typical Sunday.

Had my D and greatniece Friday night; just the 3 of us. Saturday, D and I had dinner w/friend and her family.

Limited contact with H - all by phone.

Two VMs this morning; typical "have fun w/your BF" stuff. I didn't call him all day. He called me this afternoon. First thing out of his mouth? "Did you get to see your BF"? I said that the guy was there. His response, "I know he was". My response "So, you know then that his GF was w/him".

He continues to berate me over going to church. But, and here's the part I really don't get, he continues to talk to OW and XW.

Can anyone explain to me why he gets mad at me for going to church when he is still talking w/OW and XW? Why does he do that?

He also says that he knows that I'm still talking to the guy at church but I can't remember when I last talked to him and that was a "how are you" in passing.

He blames me for his A. He says that I told him I didn't want to be w/him and that I was talking to OM at church. Says that he told me he was lonely but I didn't listen so he started talking to OW and that led to A.

He seems to forget the way he has treated me - both physically and emotionally - over the years even before I left home. He forgets how no one could get near him when his son was around. He forgets the A he had during our first year of M. He forgets the purchase of new trucks and Harleys and I had no say so in the matter.

Yet he still tells me that he loves me, that I have his heart, that he could talk with other women but he only wants me.

If that's true, why does he continue to talk w/OW and XW?

Why does he continue to badger you about this guy at church? This does NOT even deserve a response, since it has already been beaten to death. Why does he continue to speak to the XW and OW? WHO CARES? This is not a man with a full deck. Why does he continue to berate you? Because you answer the phone.

L2S, you seem to do so well when there's been NC. You do things, and you enjoy yourself with other people. Your daughter's friend and family and your niece. You are faithful about going to church. You function GREAT, even if it doesn't feel that way all the time.

But EVERY time you hear anything from the H, it pulls you right back down to square one. Even in VM! He doesn't deserve your time in a response of ANY kind.

It doesn't matter if he remembers the physical and emotional abuse. But it DOES matter that "you" remember this, so you don't forget why you are in this position to begin with.

There's no reason to question why he does what he does and says what he says (or doesn't say). He IS who he is, and this will never change. There is no answer as to why, it's just him.

(((L2S))) Stay strong, honey, and don't allow him to pull you down. You've come too far for that.

I get sucked back in because I allow myself to.

I feel sorry for him. One of my problems.

He did not create the mess that is our M alone. I helped plenty. But, I did not cheat. I put myself and my D fourth and fifth place behind him and his 2 kids.

That was entirely my fault. Actually, looking back, I should have started divorce proceedings the day I got into his VM box and discovered the first A. But, as usual, I allowed myself to remain sucked in. Now, 8 years later, I'm in the same boat. I may be out of the house but my life is still totally enmeshed w/his.

Jen,
Tried to email you but it was returned; no such address.

I tried full first name, full year @ yahoo.com.

Let me know.

No news on my end. Same issues. No resolution.

Hope your day was good. I'm thinking of ya'.

Got it. Thanks.

Hey, L2S. I replied to you on e-mail!

Hope you have a great day!