Hey folks,

Posting here from Just Found Out, so let me get you up to speed:

We have been married for three years with a wonderful two-year old.

I confronted my WW on June 2nd after the suspicion getting to be too much. She admitted to having an affair with the man I suspected, who is married with two children. It was a fairly short lived thing, first had sex a month before that on a business trip together, but they were very close, best friends, soulmates, spent all their time together, etc. She left me with the impression that she would end it, and we discussed her finding a new job, etc.

At this point, I had never heard of MB, or read anything about infidelity, so my actions over the next couple of weeks were erratic and directionless. I had no idea what to do to repair our marriage, which hadn't been that special or exciting for many months.

After the initial shock, I started a soft Plan A, not knowing that such a thing existed. I was going to be the nicest, most wonderful, caring husband the planet had priveledge to witness. I did this for over a week and felt comfortable doing it. This wasn't so hard! I was being the man I should have been for the last three years and I felt like I was doing pennance, making up for lost time. This was going to work!

I soon discovered that WW did not end the A with OM. I couldn't believe it. Now I realize that this almost never happens, and was starting to get a glimpse into WWs state of mind. This is where I finally started to seek help.

I tried to keep up my version of Plan A, but with much less success. I just couldn't understand how she could continue to intentionally cause her family so much pain. After another week, the information I was getting started to take hold and I now realized what was going on. I now had heard of Plan A/Plan B, but didn't really know how to execute them, so I was still acting on instinct. However, I now realized it was time to expose the A. I wasn't looking forward to it.

I also ended up doing what turns out to be a soft Plan B. This was much less planned out, and I was really acting more out of anger than anything else, but I felt like I should be making the big decisions for my family (since WW was pretty much incapable of making solid decisions fro anyone other than herself). This was Sunday, June 25th.

I knew that WW and OM were together, so I called OMW while I knew I had some time. It was definitely nerve-wracking. She was unhappy to hear about it, but with the info I had, I knew she would have to believe me. She was going to confront OM as soon as he got home. When WW got home, I told her we needed to talk, and I told her I thought we should go ahead and start moving on a divorce. She was certainly pissed off, but not as much as when I told her that OMW knew about the affair. What was once tolerable disinterest in her husband became outright hate.

Thanks to this site, I was prepared for everything she would say ("How could you destroy their family like that," "Things were so much better between us, we might have been able to work things out, but not now," etc.) and didn't really let any of it get to me. I never apologized for making the call, but I told her I was sorry that it ever had to come to a point where I had to do it. She tried desperately to get in touch with OM that day, but he didn't or couldn't respond. For the first time, WW was in the dark and feeling anxious about losing something valuable. We went to bed planning to start the divorce the next day.

I received an email first thing Monday from WW that she had heard from OM briefly that he was going to try to fix his marriage and requested NC unless work-related while he looked for another job. She also started to come out of the fog for the first time: she realized that she had ruined everything good in her life "for nothing" and she asked if we could hold off on the divorce for awhile.

I told her that was fine with me, and for the first time in weeks felt a glimmer of hope.

I don't believe I've posted much since then, so the next post will be new info.

BTW, I changed my screen name to something less recognizable for those who were following this story through the other thread. Sorry, it was necessary.

More soon....

I received several books I ordered on Tuesday and started devouring them as fast as I could for guidance on how to continue.

I soon realized how much harder this was going to be than I expected. Figuring out WWs ENs was not too hard. Pretty much the things I hadn't been doing in recent memory, especially since the birth of our child. But filling those ENs, especially affection and conversation seems next to impossible. I willingly offer them, but she clearly rejects them. Even though I don't expect any kind of reciprocation, I'm having a hard time understanding how I'll ever be able to get through.

Ok ok. It has only been a week. Hopefully time will help. But it's just do demoralizing. WW and I are pretty much working at cross purposes. She is still trying to figure out a way to get the A back (whether she'll admit it or not) and I'm trying to get our relationship back. She hasn't yet decided if that's something she wants to pursue or not. As long as there is any possibilty of the A continuing, I'm sure she won't be rushing to any conclusions about our future together. Classic cake eater? Maybe.

I have to say, OM is doing a good job at keeping NC (or OMW is doing a good job at enforcing it). WW is very frustrated, has even told me she is going to demand a conversation before he leaves his job, as he "owes her that much." I hope it doesn't happen, and I plan to give OMW a heads up about it as well. I feel pretty confident that things could work out for WW and I in the long run, but only if OM is far away and gone for good. Otherwise, we're spinning our wheels. Well, I'm spinning my wheels.

I guess what I could use advice and encouragement on are how do I break through on providing ENs when she doesn't want them from me? For example, I was trying to be affectionate (not sexual at all) just innocently touching her arm or something when we went to a movie. She told me (not rudely) that when I touch her it's like her skin is inside out. Conversation is hit or miss, mostly miss. She's just not present or interacting. I understand this will take time, so I'm not panicing or anything, just wondering: am I doing more harm than good? Right now, about once a day, she'll show affection to me (it's wonderful). It typically happens when I'm being aloof and not paying particular attention to her. She'll just put her head on my shoulder for a moment, or grab my hand. I take this as a good sign. I think.

Other question: I'd like to breach the topic of whether she has decided if she wants to work on our marriage or not, but it doesn't seem like the time is right. I would like to ask her to take the EN questionairre, but I think she would balk. Anybody have any advice or experiences that they can share on how/when to do this?

Oh, I heard from the OMW. She emailed me and thanked me for making The Call. She knew it was hard fro me and appreciated what I did. She said I did the right thing. That was nice to hear. I hope they work it out. She seems nice.

I may post more later, as I know I'm forgetting something...

Until then, thanks in advance for any help or advice. This site is a life saver!

nys - excellent work so far. Very excellent.

I never got as far as you, so I'm not in a position to offer specific advice - other than keep expectations on slow speed.

Don't try to get her moving more quickly. Plan A your butt off and be the best Dad you can be. NO LOVEBUSTERS!!

DO consider consulting the MB counselors as an individual, not yet as a couple.

WAT
---------------------
Infectuation - an obsessive attraction to someone who's going to do you very wrong.

N_Y_S,

You have done well indeed. Try to not fall into the pitfall of softening your stance as she will attempt to modify and mollify what you have shown her to be your boundaries. Appeasement never works.

Words mean nothing from her and any actions that you lay out for her mean even less. Sit down with her and ask her how SHE is going to fix what SHE broke. Don't offer suggestions nor advice. If she was smart enough to figure out a way to cheat, she is definitely smart enough to find a way out of her A.

An A has a definite compostion and stages to it(SAA) and while you will be tempted to "solve" this sledgehammer to the heart, it will take time and courage on both you and your spouse to restart a whole new M.

Your #1 priority is your child and followed closely by preservation of your well stated boundaries. Surprisingly, both priorities share a number of common components. A good father makes a good husband.

Lastly, the threat of D is a VERY powerful weapon. But unless you are willing to play those cards, don't even start to shuffle that deck.

Read the folowing over at least 5 times so that you undersatnd it fully. Hope for Couples in Crisis

Best of luck. You are in my prayers.

Needed to hear some encouraging words. Thanks for the advice.

Thinking about things a lot today (slow day at work). Don't think I will worry about the EN questionairre for her right now. I feel very confident of what her responses would be. I think it was more about me wanting A) to gauge her reaction to working things out, and B) for her to see what my resposes would be.

I also scheduled a session with Dr. Harley. I had been thinking about it a lot, and just needed that extra push. Even if he only says "stick with Plan A" which I'm sure he will, you can never hear it enough.

Plan A is hard, folks. One thing I haven't done is set a time limit for Plan A. With one month gone, I'm thinking another five. It's hard to imagine five months from now. The first month was hellish, this one will surely bring new challenges, as will August. Here I am trying to take it one hour at a time, and I'm measuring my marriage in months. Bizarre.

I'll get into some specifics about what makes up our interaction. Having read so much about other's experiences, it helps (me) knowing the details, because so many of them are being duplicated in my life as well. But probably not until after the Fourth. We are planning a fun family day tomorrow for the little one. Fireworks to a two-year-old will hopefully be fascinating.

I'll try to check in periodically, but I doubt I'll have time to visit long.

Hang in there fellow Plan A'ers...

Have a fabulous holiday!

Welcome to MB

Just a quick note and friendly reminder. Be wary of discussing TOO MUCH with OMW. Keep the relationship going to monitor the NO CONTACT however it is very common for the betrayed spouses to undertake a revenge liason. Do not meet her in private.

Along the same lines, do not share intimate conversation with her or any woman regarding your marriage. Whether you are aware of it or not, you are just too vulnerable right now. Keep your relations with the opposite sex strictly business.

I promise you won't regret maintaining your integrity.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - Stick to the do's and don'ts list of Plan A I posted in Longhorns thread "For Newly Betrayed Spouses" on the Just Found Out board. Print it out and stick to it.

Often the WS won't let you meet some of their needs. Touch is something that feels good when there is an emotional connection, but not in the absence of emotional connection. Right now she is in withdrawl, and you are not on her radar screen - but there are things you can do.

Conversation is still one you can meet SOMETIMES. If she does talk about things that are important to her, draw her out. Really listen, ask questions that show you are listening. If you pay attention, there will be times when you can make this work.

Affection - there are many ways of showing affection besides touch.

Bring her a favorite drink, or candy bar when you come home. If she is worried about her weight, a favorite magazine. Stay away from flowers, and "I love you" types of things. Keep it more neutral.

Do the dishes, let her watch HER show on TV. Do things as a family - and be an extra good dad.

Spend some time on this - surf the web for ideas if you struggle - do things you know she likes to do.

You can also do things as a couple if there is something you know she really would enjoy. A concert, a play or some kind of event that she has always wanted to see??
You get the baby sitter, you do make the resturantn reservation -

Don't over do it, or try to do it all at once.

Think of this as a game.
You need a game plan.

You work the plan and make minor adjustments but you don't guage your success on her daily reactions - only on how you run your plan.

3 to 6 months from now, you can see how she is reacting, but for now, you run the plan and you give yourself points for the things you do.

As with any game, there will be times when the other team is ahead. If you are a pro, you already know this, but you also know that if you continue to run your plan, you have a chance of winning.

Right now, you don't know what the outcome will be. You can't know. You only know you want to try, and you want to win.

Conditioning counts for a lot. When you get tired, you just have to keep going anyway.

Read "Survinig an affair" and put together your plan. Write it down, but hide it well. Check off what you do, adjust if she reacts badly to some things. Try others, note what works, and why you think it works.

If you concentrate on your game plan, an on running your plays, it won't be so bad when you have a setback. I promise you that setbacks will happen.

By reading here, you will get insight into what is going to happen and can prepare yourself for it. You already have insight into that by the reading you have done so far.

I agree it may very well be the hardest thing you do in your life, but it will give the most rewards too - if you can make it work.

All the best -

SS

Very nice Still Seeking. I like that post a lot. I'd love to see you cut, edit(where appropriate) and paste it right into the Longhorn Thread "For Newly Betrayed Spouses" pinned to the top of the Just Found Board. This post could be really helpful to tactical minds such as my own as we battle in Plan A. I know it would have been right on target for me last spring.


NOT YET SOLO - along the lines of things to do.

1. Without stating your intent or making the idea appear romantic, when you can get your wife out for dinner alone purposely choose a place you've been before during brighter days in your marriage. DON'T reveal your intent. Her mind has negatively re-written your marital history and facing recollections of happier times helps innocuously pull her out of such misconceptions.

2. Switch colognes back to the one you wore when you two were dating. Again, draw NO attention to it. Smell and memory are inexplicably linked.

3. Shower before bed to remove your natural body odor which currently makes her skin crawl and replace it with the fresh smell of a new body soap.

4. Get yourself some new clothes. Again, make NO reference as to why. You just needed some.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

Just wanted to say that I think you are doing a wonderful job also. Remember keep your head up! You're going to have bad days, and that's okay, but progress is slow. Look for the little things, nothing big right now! Still too much fog to get through with WW. Don't expect anything, your early in the process.

Stay focused! Sorry you have a need to be here, but you are in the best hands. I love my MBers family! I'll check in on you later! Take care!

Thank you everyone for the terrific advice. Still_Seeking, what you wrote was particularly helpful at an especially difficult time yesterday. Thank you so much for taking the time to share it.

The last couple of days have been hard. WW is in what is hopefully the worst part of the withdrawal. She wants to kill herself, although she promises that she won't (I'm keeping a close eye on her, and her therapist upped her antidepressant dosage). She did say that she doesn't feel like she'll ever be happy again. I know that's not true, but I can't exactly tell her that.

We had planned to do a family day yesterday for the Fourth. We went to see a movie together, but WW was silent and non-communicative the entire way there and back, other than apologizing because she was having a really rough day. I told her genuinely that it was okay, but it ended up being rather uncomfortable for me and the little one.

We planned to take the little one to see fireworks for the first time (she's two remember). WW had been laying on the couch for a couple of hours, trying to hold back tears and being altogether miserable. I was worried about going out because the movie had been so bad, I didn't want to have another experience like that right away (for everyone involved). I came here to get some advice and read Still_Seeking's helpful reply. I went to her and asked her what she wanted to do, and told her if she wanted to stay behind, that was okay and I wouldn't hold it against her or judge her. I told her that of course we'd love for her to come too, but if not, we still loved her, and to take some time to think about it. She started to tear up and said she needed to go lay down. She stayed in bed for the rest of the night. I said goodbye when we left, and the little one and I did have a terrific time. When I came to bed, she said she felt guilty for missing her kid's first fireworks experience. I told her all about it, and I told her we missed her but understood.

I think things went well despite the circumstances. I read a lot more of SAA and got some more insight into the inner workings of her withdrawal. For now, just staying the course...

I'll keep updating for those who are interested or going through similar circumstances. I have an appointment with Steve Harley scheduled for next week. I don't have any expectations about it at this point, which is neither a good nor bad thing, I'm trying to go into it ready to absorb.

More soon...

Help!

I just got an email from WW that I'm having trouble figuring out the best response to.

She is starting to get worried about her own frame of mind. She says things are unbearably hard, and it's getting to the point where she doesn't know if she can make it from one hour to the next. She's scared, and she doesn't know what to do, except tell me where she's at, keep taking her meds and talking to her shrink. She said she's sorry for falling apart, and that she hates that this is happening.

So, short of copying the email here, that's almost exactly what she said. When I'm around her I don't worry about her as much because I'm there to protect her from herself (other than her thoughts), but we're apart right now, and I'm starting to get--well, not starting, I am--worried about her.

This is probably above and beyond this discussion board, although perhaps not. I'm hoping this is pretty common behavior. I just don't know how to respond to her to calm her down. Calming her down may be impossible. I guess just to reassure her that it will get better with time?

<Expletive>, I don't know what to do.

Quickly wanted to update...

I thanked her for sharing her feelings with me. I told her that her family loves her no matter what she's feeling. I told her that I'm here if she needs me.

I kept it simple.

Afterward, she told me that she scheduled a meeting at work with OM, just the two of them. She said she was "hoping this is my chance to say a few things to him which might help me feel a little better." This makes me angry, but I have to hold out that she isn't reckless. I have a bad feeling about it though. I know she's looking for closure.

Well, I just got an update. Said they had a good conversation about some stuff, which she admits is vague, and is guessing it's the closure discussion she needed, and thinks that it helped to a certain degree, but she isn't sure. And she doesn't particularly want to go into specifics about it with me "if that's okay." Is that okay with me? I don't know.

I hope this doesn't set her back to "day zero" as I think Dr. Harley says in SAA. Worse though, I hope it doesn't rekindle the affair. I guess I'll have to gauge how things progress over the next couple of days.

OMW asked me to inform her of anything that she should know about. Is this something she should know about? I would think so, but I'm leaning toward waiting a day to see if OM tells her about it himself, then asking her if he did. I might have more information about it then anyway.

I've really started rambling. God, this is SO aggravating!!

Though the boards here are a great source of support, we all have our own jobs, and families to support. We'll do the best we can, but we don't always post in a timely manner.

Yes, tell OMW. Any meetings at all continue the addiction.

About closure:
Closure is a pipe dream.

Meeting OM for closure is kind of like continuing to smoke and being surprised that you are still addicted to cigarettes. Her feelings for OM won't start to fade until she stays away from him a good 3 to 6 months. Sometimes a little longer.

It's a way to continue contact - and in all my reading here, nothing good has ever come from "closure meetings."

I've really started rambling. God, this is SO aggravating!!

Yes, it is. And that is an HUGE understatement. Ramble all you want - it's good for you to vent here so you don't do it with her. With her you need to be a lighthouse. Steady and constant.

You need to believe you can run your plan, and you need to act like you believe. If you have to, pretend on bad days. Have you ever seen a lighthouse that doubted it could do it's job?

You need to stand up, and shine like you are the best lighthouse in the world. You need to be strong, confident, - how do I get this across?

When she says things that hurt you - you can cry about it (and I know how it makes you feel, and am not trying to discount your feelings) or you can say something like this:
" I don't want you to leave, and it makes me sad to think of you being gone, but there is nothing I can do to keep you here against your will. I know I will be fine in the long run whatever you do - I just wish I could be fine with you rather than someone else."

That's an example - adapt it to what is actually happening, or to things she says.

You express regret for things you don't like, you don't agree with her about them, but you acknowledge her right to choose, and you go on with your life with strength and confidence.

Remember that many on this site have been where you are, and made it through. It takes a lot, but have faith that you can make it too.

You can't make her do what you want - you can't make her stay in the marriage. You can be the best YOU that you can possibly be. Really, what else is there?

With every interaction you have with her, keep telling youself "I am the light house, I am the beacon - I can do this."
When this is all over, you need to know you did the best you could possibly do. That's how you act from day to day. That gives you the best chance to make the marriage work.

You can do this.

SS

They all say they want "closure". There isn't such a thing. My WH went to a hotel room with the OW for "closure".

It is like expecting a withdrawing drug addict not to be hindered by shooting up a little heroin.

If I were you, I would expect more contact.

She or he needs to quit. She needs to write a no contact letter.

Be sure to let his wife know of the "closure meeting".

That's good. Enough to let her know you love her and the family you made, but not so much that you come across as needy or weak.

Bad news... there is no need for closure. That's just her line to you so you won't freak out too much. Affairs don't need closure, they need instant death... and she's trying to restart it likely. Add to this the fact that she's in the worst part of withdrawal. Add to this fact that he was the one who was establishing NC. I'm willing to bet my car that she was looking for the way to restart this affair.

When the affair truly ends, closure is not obtained by the WW and the OM in secret. This is as rational as an alcoholic saying they need closure with alcohol, so they are going to go to the bar and say farewell with a few last beers. It just won't work.

Your wife is also looking for a release from her painful withdrawal, which she associates with not being near him. Now her withdrawal will start all over again, and so on until someone finally takes action.

There is no magic situation in which this type of meeting works out well, I'm sorry. Her withdrawls will start over from the beginning. She'll likely talk to you nicely and be happy after they meet (because she got her drug), but if he establishes NC again (which he might NOT do) she'll end up a wreck again.

Call his wife and tell her about the meeting. It's possible he lied to her and she had no idea. If you two cooperate, you have a better chance of success.

Check the cell phone records and her email accounts if possible. There's a good chance the affair starts up again.

I had about five "closure" meetings with OM after the A ended. They accomplished NOTHING. We just continued to say the same old @#$@ over and over.

Your W is a mess because she is in withdrawl. The "closure" she is seeking is actually a high, even if she doesn't realize it. She needs to stay as far away from OM as possible.

I agree that you should tell the OM's W about the recent contact.

((NYS))

Thanks everyone. It's much as you (and I) expected. She's doing her level best to re-establish contact with OM. WW told me enough things about the "meeting" that will definitely not be okay with OMW.

WW is indeed looking to keep things alight with OM. She has now found a way to communicate with him and not break the promise OM made to his wife. WW can talk to him, but he can't verbally respond, just nod or shake his head. Technically he isn't talking to WW about anything other than work-related issues. Very cute.

I'm not certain what was communicated during the meeting, but WW is now writing an email to him, The Last Email, that says what she really wants to say, and that he "can respond to or not, it's up to him."

This is all so textbook. Still_Seeking, thank you SO SO MUCH for telling me EXACTLY what I need to hear. You must have a sixth sense or something. Keep shaking that Magic Eight Ball: "OUTLOOK NOT SO GOOD."

I'm going to give OMW a call tomorrow. I thought maybe an email would be better, but I'm not sure it will convey my sense of ... I don't even know what to call it. Whatever it is when you roll your eyes at a stupid teenager. Whatever that feeling is called, that's what I'm feeling.

I feel like WW is acting like a stupid teenager.

(I'm not suggesting all teenagers are stupid. But some of them are, or at least one of them was: me.)

So as, WW writes her essay of blind devotion and massive stupidity (not to mention self-destruction), I'm going to be The Lighthouse ... but I'm also going to Expose this thing (again) tomorrow and hit the reset button.

ROUND 1 goes to AFFAIR.

Did I miss where you exposed to her work...they work together, don't they?

Contact continues the affair...

LA

I decided to go ahead and email OMW last night and let her know about the contact at work. She emailed me back this morning and told me that OM had actually told her about it already and told her what was said. Together they decided that any further contact from WW would be detrimental and pointless.

OMW also told me that she had just heard from her WH that my WW had had sent him an IM asking if she could email him one last time to get closure. He told her it was a bad idea, he was fully committed to fixing his marriage, and he didn't want her to send him the letter. Yesterday's conversation would have to serve as closure.

Sure enough, within a few minutes I received an email from WW that confirmed exactly what OMW had just told me. WW was pretty distraught and left work to go home and crawl back into bed. She asked me how long this was going be so horrible.

I went ahead and gave her a little tough love. I told her it was going to take a lot of time, and that she shouldn't expect to be over this in a few days. Weeks or months would be optimistic even.

I invited her to have lunch with me and we did that. She was of course not very conversational, but I let her know that was okay. I was just there to keep her company and be there if she needed me.

So, we're back to withdrawal. It's good though. We've been lucky things have worked out as they have. OM and especially OMW are being very strong, certainly relative to WW. I'm holding together well.

So, I'll be Plan A'ing my butt off, as someone said before. It is really difficult to see the end of this, so I'll just stop trying. I'm focusing on what tomorrow looks like, and executing my game plan.

With regard to exposing to work, OMW assures me that OM is looking for new employment, and I believe her. As long as that continues, I'm holding exposing to their boss as my ace in the hole, so to speak. I don't know the Boss very well, but it wouldn't surprise me if they both lost their jobs immediately. For me and WW that would hurt, as we are in debt from a move and still trying to sell our old house. As long as it's not absolutely necessary, it makes sense to wait. I have a feeling WW will want to quit before long anyway, so I'm trying to save as much as I can and selling the old house has become a priority.

If anyone has any more suggestions for helpful behavior (staying away from romantic gestures and sticking to smaller, less sentimental things was very useful) I'd be grateful. I'll be updating frequently.

I'm going to call this day: Day 1.

Journaling is good - it lets you gauge what you do on your plan, and if you record your WW's actions, it can show trends.

If you have a good day, DO NOT THINK all is well.
IF you have a bad day, DO NOT THINK ALL IS LOST. It doesn't work that way. Watch for trends - over time.

As for more helpful behavior -
You need to think about this one. Two things - go back to when you were dating, and think of things that she enjoyed at the very first............ before the love feelings showed up.
What kind of things did you do with her?

The second thing -
Some of what worked then may not work now, because times, and people change. What were her worries pre A? What did she stress over? Can you take away some of her pain as far as those things are concerned?

What brightens her day?
Is she a music person? Does she need a new CD to cheer her up?
IS there somewhere she always wanted to take the kids?

Be careful not to try to force her up and out if she doesn't want to go - but you can lead, and take the kids anyway. She'll notice what you are doing.

Are there things around the house that need doing, that you have put off?

Bad habits you can quit?

If she comments, you can tell her:
"This is a good oppertunity for me to fix some things about myself. I can't force you to love me, but I can fix myself, and if you don't fall back in love with me, someone else will. All I can do is work on me - so that's what I am doing."

Again, spend time every few days thinking about this. Things will start to come to you. It takes time and patience to fix a marriage. It won't happen in a week, or a month. Lighthouses stand and shine. That's what they do. Doesn't matter how bad the storm, they stand and shine.

I think you are doing well - all things considered. It might not feel like it sometimes, but that's the way it is. Keep going. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

SS