I have to figure out what his last name is first. Believe me, I'm working on this as much as possible from Iraq. I am very limited. I am working on getting his cell number to do a reverse look up. My friend is also doing some recon work for me.

Like I said before though, full exposure, in this situation can't happen until I get home.

LA,

Thank you again for your advice and response!

Sharing my inner most feelings is a completely new thing for me. At first, when I finally went to see an actual counselor, it was a pride swallower. I still don't really like it, but i do it b/c it works.

I haven't been able to really do this with my WW yet, but I have opened up alot, and plan to tell her how I feel, regardless of her reaction.

After last nights talk with my buddy, i want to expose to more people, but I promise you that at this point, that would be the end. I am already out of sight out of mind.

The MIL, my biggest ally, is the person I want to tell most, but least at the same time. I want to save my marriage, but not destroy WW (though that is what she has done to me). MIL is planning to spend some time with WW soon, and told me that she was going to have a LONG heart to heart about the struggles MIL hid from her children.

MIL is mad at me for feeling like I am fighting a losing battle and that I need to stay strong for WW, but she doesn't know the whole story. WW tells MIL and family that she wants us to work more than anything, but her journal said otherwise. I can't tell whether she is lieing to them or not, but i have suggested this to MIL who just asked why. I said I just feel it. She answered with hmmm... so I know she is thinking about it.

Speaking of the journal, I have a great sense of guilt for not telling her that I read the whole thing and know everything. Should I come clean on this subject? With her knowing that I read it all, she will know I know who OM is.

I truly feel that if he is put on the spot, he will end it and WW and I can drive on, hopfully together. If I told the family, she will see this as the biggest betrayal of trust of all time, without thinking about her betrayal. At home, she at least has to deal with me. Here, she can just retaliate in whatever awful way, that makes me sick to even think of the possibilities.

Basically my reason is face to face confrontation. I want to be there when she finds out. The optimal would be for her to admit it while I'm there, but that won't happen.

Why do you believe you can destroy your WW...or that she can destroy you?

Yes to telling your WW you know about her thoughts and feelings about the A...and no to telling her how.

Okay, I get the waiting to expose to family...and being open to what may or may not happen in the mean time.

How she perceives, reacts...you're getting this, but only so far...predicting another person's thoughts, feelings or beliefs is disrespectful. Predicting is a trick we play to manipulate OURSELVES. Look into yourself more, gently, to find all the ways you think things out, rather than thinking them in.

Would me being mad at you for thinking you're fighting a losing battle help? You choose your beliefs...every single one of them...you didn't know that when you were a kid...you took on what others believed...time to through out that choice, I'd say, because as an adult, you know you cannot predict a battle before it is fully fought...you cannot determine an outcome before you fully engage...

And every choice you make matters. All the way through.

Consider where your guilt is coming from in regards to the journal...because when you feel guilt, you are experiencing not living up to other people's expectations; and when you experience shame, you are not living up to your own.

Find out if you have reasonable expectations of yourself and others...all humans...all equal...all responsible for themselves...no control...power only over your own stuff...your thoughts, feelings, beliefs, perspectives, and perceptions.

Yours.

If you have not been honest and open with your stuff...you may feel shame in sneaking past your WW to find out her stuff...when you didn't share your own stuff? Would that be something close? You tell me. You're you.

Did you tell me how you knew OM wasn't married, when you don't know his last name? I'm getting senile.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA

LA,

OM is close friends and lives with WW BF and her H. We all went out a few times, I just never knew his last name.

-Why do you believe you can destroy your WW...or that she can destroy you?-

My WW has always had depression issues. She has been to counseling as a teen, since we've been married, and supposedly is going now (I think she is lying). I feel that exposure without me there to put at least some accountability or to catch her when she finally falls would lead to a deeper, darker depression (I can only pray that she would not consider suicide) or more destructive affairs to "get even".

She has not and CANNOT destroy me. That which does not kill me, only makes me stronger. God has a plan for me, regardless of what happens I will be a better man in the end.

I'm not trying to predict, I've seen these reactions in her before. Granted they were with different issues, and not necessarily about me or us, but at that time she always confided in me, and I was always there to pick her up. I'm not there right now....OM is/was.

Please don't think I am giving up. I just need to express to MIL my honest feelings. What I feel and what I do are often two different things. Let me put a situation to this:

I feel that b/c of all that is going on that the war is already lost, but I fight on ( the do part) b/c I Love her with all that I am.

You may question: Isn't love part of a feeling? Yes it is, but it is also something that I choose to do everyday, even when the storm clouds are rolling, and to use a line from MortarMan, Satin is firing artillery rounds directly at me.

Did this clarify at all? Or is my rambling just aimless? Like I said before, sharing whats on the inside is the hardest thing I have ever had to make myself do, and my mind runs a million miles a minute and is sometimes hard to keep track of.

On the subject of exposure:

Neither of the two people involved in an affair are rational. He has sold his honor away (as has she), but the difference is that he is being deployed and lives may depend on his clear thinking, good judgment, and decision-making skills.

Right now he has none of these.

Even over there, all he is going to be thinking about is your WW, and getting his next affair-high. He is not going to be thinking of the people around him, and definitely not of doing what is right in any area of his life, even the areas that do not directly involve your WW.

IMO, that, as much as honor and loyalty, is the reason the military is so firmly against infidelity. It truly is not a case of 'work business' vs. 'personal business'. Infidelity is an insidious and fast-acting poison that has ALREADY transformed the OM (and your WW) into a dishonorable, selfish, irrational person.

If you know who this man is, it is your responsibility to inform his command, before he is placed in charge of innocent lives who cannot rely on him.

Had you seen my husband, who is involved in the security field, while in the throes of his addiction, this would seem understated rather than dramatic. At the affair's (first) end, he turned in his weapon to his best friend for more than a week. The OW has not won any prizes for rationality, either. I would not put her in charge of petunias, never mind people, even now. She is morally bankrupt. Destitute.

Please do your brothers-in-arms this favor, and spare them the added risk that will be theirs if he deploys with them, still in the throes of his addiction. Do not seek vengeance, but make it clear to the CO that you only want to make sure they are separated. That way if you discover contact through any means, you just take it to your ally, his CO. It is almost as good as OM being married, and having a wife to watch his every move.

All the best, and thank you for your service.

Hey, US...

Did I get you right on my question?

You can destroy her but she can't destroy you?

I'm a little tired...lemme know.

I know about depression...and it comes from the inside, toots. Not the outside. Life events influence us...how we handle them determines how we grow outward or inward...and no one can handle them for us.

I challenge your belief that you have the power to make her...lift her...depress her...shatter her...

Because until you see her as the capable, whole and complete person she is, you will not treat her respectfully. Respect she is separate from you, as capable and wonderfully made as the rest of us...she's our equal, US. God didn't make no junk.

And didn't make exceptions.

Enabling isn't love. Rescuing isn't compassion. Know subtle differences for you, US...

When someone confides in us, they share themselves...tells us nothing about who we are, except safe to share with...it isn't edict to help, cure or control.

I don't think you're giving up...didn't.

"What I feel and what I do are often two different things. Let me put a situation to this:"

Your emotions are information, US...they come from your beliefs...you are feeling like the battle is lost because you believe it is...and you fight on, anyway? Change your belief. That's what I'm asking. That will change your emotion. Might get to the true fear hiding behind an unreasonable belief...I know you can handle fear. You can see where it comes from, hold it and not act from it.

May change what the war looks like to you.

Yes, you're sharing what's on the inside...do more...practice...in your wait, choose to practice...sharing you IS intimacy...know why it's hard and how your fear of it affects your marriage and your life.

You're worth it.

LA

nsyn,

Thank you for the insight. I am working diligently to find his last name to get his CO to get a NC order for him, and just like you said without vengence, though sometimes thats what I truly want.

My detailed cell records should be at my buddy's place in 2-5 days and should be to me in another 3-4. He is also doing some snooping around for me, as I mentioned before. I wanted to hold off on this, but you have called out my sense of duty and honor to my brothers' in arms on this one. I know how much trouble i had concentrating when I was first dealing with all the ghosts that were haunting me from this.


LA,

First thank you for you ongoing support. NO, no, no I cannot destroy my wife, nor would I ever want to. I truly hope that she is going to IC to deal with her issues.

I think my lift her up line was a little lost in translation, so let me explain, but if I am still off base...please tell me so I can work on this.

When she would have a problem that depressed her alot, my heart would break along with hers, I felt her pain. I would listen, but only offer advice if asked. I would let her cry on my shoulder, many, many soaked shirts. And I would buy her a card or a single flower just to tell her that we would get through this and that she wasn't alone.

Is this healthy lifting, or not so much??

Through our entire relationship I have done so much to raise her self esteem and I have watched her grow, mostly b/c she chose to believe, but also b/c of my consistent encouragement. When things were still good between us, she thanked me all the time for this. And it made me feel good.

This may be enabling, but it was truly from the heart.

Now onto the next part of my post.

I talked to WW last night for over an hour. This is the first time in months that we have done this. We started out with what she says she's been up to and what I've been up to (which I can't talk very much about due to the secrecy of my job and she doesn't need to know about other war zone stuff either), then her doctor apt (not counseling, I still don't think she is doing this).

Next we talked about whats going on in the neighborhood, sounds like she is spending alot more time at home again. Then I felt a sudden urge to talk about what I really wanted to talk about with her, my feelings. This has never really happened and she was shocked at how honest I was.

I started by telling her I loved her, but eneded that and didn't say it again throu the whole conversation. I owned all of my stuff and apologized for not meeting her ENs, but I said that that is all I apologize for. I am responsible for my actions alone, just as you are for yours.

I told her that I am working on me, for me thru IC and it is doing wonders for me (she said she could tell). I told her about the chaplain helping me get back in touch with God and how I felt that this situation is a test to determine whether I am coming back for the right reason.

(The rationale behind that is that my only prayer was to give her strength to remain faithful, safety isn't a concern to me b/c when its my time....its my time. This prayer was clearly not answered, but I stood strong in my faith if nothing else.)

I told her that I realize there is not much I can do from over here to show her, or make any progress as to the us factor, and that I am not going to try to rationalize or explain her back to me anymore. I said that I am going to fix me for me, so I can be the husband she needs or at the very least a better man.

She interjected here and there saying, thats a change, or wow. It seemed like the more I talked the more cheerful she sounded. This is not getting my hopes up, b/c of all the stuff I have read on these boards, but it does make me feel that maybe she will at least soak in some of it.

At the end of the conversation I let her know that I want to meet her ENs now (as much as possible) but even more importantly when I get home. I also told her that I need her help on that b/c my idea of affection is clearly very different from hers, and she concurred. I apologized for not asking sooner.

She closed out her side by saying she wants to talk to me about alot of stuff, but she is just not a person who shares inner most feelings (never has been), but she wants to when we can talk face to face. She looks forward to my coming home again.

She is also using "us" and "we" alot again. Still not going to get sucked in b/c its just a matter of time before the other foot drops. I plan to stay consistently in the middle for awhile.

Does this sound like I'm on track? I feel much better and for the second night in months slept very well, even though I only had time for 4.5 hours.

Knowing you cannot destroy another human being is important...

We can be cruel, vindictive, manipulative...we contribute...we can abuse...their wholeness, their choice remains...

Good to remember...when you feel done to, wrecked and destroyed.

We feel annihilated...I'm reminding you, we are NOT.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You have automatic Disrespectful Judgments (DJs) in your head, sir...assumptions of what other people think...where their questions are leading...what's the catch...where's the trap...what do they think of me...

Very human. Work on them. Get rid of them. Free yourself from that million thoughts per second routine because a lot of them are DJs...mapping, I call it...fear thoughts...rapid fire...clarity is what you are craving, I believe. Clarity must have clear thoughts...total present focus...no DJs...

I had no thought you wanted to destroy your WW...nor do I believe she wants to destroy you.

What do you think about that?

You stayed present for her depressive days...you weren't her cure...she may have lifted herself by sharing...and chose to believe you were in this together...best phrase I know for recovery...hold that one close, 'k? Pretty darn healthy...when not taken with your DJ to destroy, control, cause or cure...those other ones interfere...this one was pure support and presence.

When you feel her pain and do not believe you are the cause...that's healthy. When you believe you can push her away, make her, do for her...then you are treading on disrespectful ground...stepping over her choices..."I have faith in you" "I know you're capable and whole." "You bless my life." Knowing you complement and not complete one another is important.

And here is why I am preaching at you...to show you how you think in that wind tunnel fashion...you cannot raise another person's self-esteem...the self and they hyphen are in there for a reason. What you can do is believe you can. You can esteem another person...hold esteem for them..authentically...has influence...cannot raise another's esteem...because then their own regard is held on what YOU think, not what they believe.

If you take credit, you take blame...just something I learned.

You are not a bad person for any of this...these beliefs were modeled to you; you believed this was love...and now you can choose to replace those beliefs with what you learn...your choice.

If God made it so you could heal others, then what are they here for? To heal you? Our beliefs systems are always two-way roads...what you do for others, you do for yourself...and what you do for yourself, you will do to and for others...

You may want someone to heal you, raise your self-esteem, listen to you, hold you, respect you...and if you believe you do this for others, then make sure you are doing those exact things for yourself...otherwise, you're out of balance...

Enabling is always from the heart...and to be filled up from the outside...doesn't look disrespectful...you do for me, I do for you...this seems like such a reasonable way to live...until you don't do for me and I do for you more to get you to do for me...filling up from the outside says to self, you gotta give to get...you are not lovable as is...you're empty.

Just stuff to mull over on your guard duties (I'm hoping you have some really boring assignments right now).

You were really respectful not apologizing for what was not yours. This is not enabling.

You felt better after you were O&H because YOU were O&H...not her reaction. Please know this. You said self was important by stating your thoughts, feelings and beliefs. Sharing what you're learning, your excitement, your goals...that is where the sleep comes from...being true to yourself. Not hiding self when self isn't wrong...self is.

She reacted as she reacted. Period. Clarity is not found in escalated expectations...which are premediated resentments...last night, you stopped resenting yourself and situation...even for a little while, because you were honest for you.

You are brave, soldier...you took an important human step...and I believe you were respectful.

Catch each assumption and throttle it...it is a lie to self. Catch yourself looking out through others' eyes to see into yourself...a false path...

You're doing this, US...

Why would God test...when God knows?

God respects you...he created you and gave you domain over yourself...and no other...limited you...and gave you the power to deny God...no tests required...sheer respect. Jesus respected here on earth...he did not cure because he saw those who needed curing...he respected their choice to be cured. God waits to be chosen...respects our decisions...because he loves by choice...we cannot make him choose differently.

Keep choosing him, US...he's showing you the way to the marvelous human he created...all of you...

And discovering this when our spouses are wayward, well...hard to see they are loved, respected and chosen in the same way...trust this fact when it feels like fraud...because that is your path to respecting others'...no mindreading, no assumptions...

Find your joy in your own choices...it's there.

Privilege to be here with you, US...you won't see that for quite awhile...well, I didn't, when I was where you are now (and no, not overseas)

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

It remains true.

LA

LA,

You are being such a great help to me!!!

Workimg on cutting out DJ's and controlling my thought patterns and mind reading is actually my "homework" assignment in my IC right now.

I am working hard to retrain a brain that has been set in its ways for 26 years. I am doing it though! I have lots of help to keep doing it also.

-I had no thought you wanted to destroy your WW...nor do I believe she wants to destroy you.

What do you think about that?-

I used to think that she was trying to get even with me for not being who she needed me to be, now I don't know. I don't know what is going through her head on this.

She knew her actions would/are/still hurt me, but she keeps doing them. Hopfully its kept and not keeps anymore, but there's no telling right now. So I guess I really don't know???

About the God's test question:
I know God knows, I believe the test was fo ME to know!

This is all I am going to write for now, I think. I want to think all of this over and try to do some self digging

See? There are no coincidences...

Btw, to be clear, you are not bad or wrong for DJs...you are imprisoned by them. Eliminating them is freeing yourself...

Hope that helps with the retraining.

Magnificence in living in Freedom...you are learning you control your thoughts, beliefs, perspectives, perceptions...so many choices!

And you're not bad for thinking she was trying to get even...comes from inside...

Nope, you really don't know...and that's the best place to be...full of fear...sometimes terror, at first...honesty fights fear...first act of living from love, not fear, is to know what you don't know. Can't know.

Be gentle when you self-dig...LOL Use small tools, 'k?

When you eliminate DJs to others, be sure to eliminate them to yourself, too.

Thank you for being here...sharing your journey, your self, helps others.

LA

LA,

I just re-read this entire page, but I'm lost on the

-See? There are no coincidences...

line. Could you elaborate for me when you have a moment?? Thank you so much!

Coincidences...

I'm pointing out your DJs so you can see them...

Your IC assigned you that as homework...

God is reaching for you...

Rely on him. Know you're not alone. He's active in your life.

LA

Hey all,


Thanks for the clarification LA!

I've had ALOT of time to think the last two days and have another four hours of that garbage tonight. I have had some time to read half of MWIL's thread and it made me find a positive to my being deployed right now.

I think that this is the best place for me to heal myself, though it may appear a hinderance...it may be a blessing. When I found out my strength was gone, I felt no pride and it showed, sending straight back to OM.

Being here is allowing me to rebuild my pride and personal strength, so when I return home I will be able to show signs of significant self recovery while I plan A and not worry about the recovery that happens in plan B, for the moment. MWIL mentioned that time is a major component....this IS my time and I am adjusting well.

I say this b/c for the last 8 months, I have been alone and contact is limited. When I get back, I have a few friends whose deployments have been delayed, so getting out and having fun on my own will not be a problem.

Add to this that OM will be deployed and I will be taking MY cell phone back from WW. If she puts up a fight I will simply tell her that I will not support her A, especially on MY cell number.

It sounds selfish, but it is the same number I had before I knew her and its the one all of my friends have, so I feel its justified.

Just a side thought, I wonder if she even considered how ill-advised it was to use MY cell, on my bill to txt and call OM?? WOW, The phone records are on the way, and she has no idea. Now I just need to find a way to do a reverse look up on a cell....shouldn't be too hard.

One additional note, I did not expose to the SIL or MIL, but let them know things are really bad btwn WW and myself. I mentioned that there are things she isn't telling me. I hope they deduce this and pressure WW for an answer, so she exposes herself.

Inlaws also said that "if, God forbid, you two don't make it, you better not stop visiting us...we will still be your family." Brings tears to my eyes, but I'm not a cryer so I'll fight them back as usual.

Have a good day everyone.

Hi. I've been watching your post.

By the way, thanks for your sacrifice and service, and tell your friends there that we really appreciate it.

I suggest you expose the affair. You can start with your in-laws. I know that you believe it is the wrong thing to do, but it has been proven to work, over and over on this site.

In my 3 and a half years here, there have only been 2 people that regretted it. One got beat up by the other woman, and one still loves her husband, even though they have been divorced 7 years. She wishes she had pretended everything was fine.

Hey believer....Thanks.

I have been peaking curiosity with the inlaws. I never bring up the subject of WW and I, but they do...Esp MIL. The other night She asked how things were and I just said bad.

She asked what WW said.... I told her its what she doesn't say and that I expect to see papers waiting for me when I get home. MIL still plans a long heart to heart. If her curiosity doesn't get WW to break down, then I will expose. Until then I will continue to gather info and concern myself with myself.

Today is a day where I just feel like it isn't worth it. All the mood swings I've put up with over the 5 yrs and now this? I love her with all my heart, but I've been away for almost a year now....I don't know.... I just pray for strength and today is just a bad day. I haven't given up yet.

I suggest you tell your in-laws. If your wife does it, she will put a whole different spin on the story. They always do.

Tell your in-laws that you love your wife and want to stay married. They may confront her, but be prepared if they side with her. That happens all of the time here.

Hang in there, and keep working on yourself. This stuff sucks at first, but gets much better. I promise you that.

Believer,

I am hanging in.

I forgot to mention that last night was one of my planned call times to WW. She sounded happy to hear from me? She was really busy at work, as July is one of the 3 busiest months of the year, and asked if I could hold on... I did....then another customer came in (I could here them so its the truth) and asked me to call back in 20 minutes.

I just said no, I'll call on Wed or Thurs (those are her days off) b/c I was tired from guard duty.

Why did she sound hurt at this?

I used to tell her that looking fwd to calling her was what got me through the days here, but now I really don't feel a need to call her other than to let her know I'm still in her life.

The same thing happened last week, her boss was there, and she was very talkative on Thurs when I called.

She said that she was thinking about me. Whatever.

Still trying to find OMs last name, but cell records are in the mail. Also OM deploys in about a week and will be on lock down soon. He is going someplace that, I believe has limited communication abilities.

Hopefully btwn that and me being btwn 2-2.5 months out from going home, will give time to reflect for her. We'll see. MWIL's thread has been very strengthening for me today!

USSoldier,
I am honored that you have been able to derive some strength from my thread....but that strength is ultimately coming from you.

A few things....

EXPOSURE!! Absolute, all at once! Don't give ANY warning, get your ducks in a row!! Then "Shock and Awe" baby!! Your plan now is to destroy the Affair!! Don't worry about the anger that WILL come from that from your WW. Just say this over and over to her: "I believe in our marriage, and our strength to recover from this" This is your answer to everything!!! DO NOT ENGAGE IN HER OWN CONFLICT DEFLECTED TOWARD YOU!!!! It will get you NOWHERE, and will diminish your love for her in the long run. JUST THINK OF HER AS AN ALIEN!! REALLY!! CONCEPTUALIZE this!!! Exposure was the begining of the end for my FWW's A. It is the greatest tool!!! And doing it all at once brings about the most impact!!! Then, PATIENCE with ALIEN!! No reactions, stay with the montra above.

Focus on all that you can that entertained you before the A. Gain pleasure from all you enjoy doing.

Take a few minutes each day...sit alone, close your eyes....and feel the self pride in yourself, which MUST be unique to a US soldier.....We are all so PROUD of you!!! Feel that pride....value yourself, more and more each day!!!! What you do, sir, is an inspiration to ME!!!

I will be following your thread......you took the time to read mine.....and I feel that now I can give some advice, though I'm still going through this myself, I am SO MUCH stronger......I healed well!!

Take care my friend. Be safe!!!!!!!!!!
MWIL

MWIL,

Thank you so much for the post!

I am getting all my ducks in a row and gathering evidence. The last 2 pieces of the puzzle are all that are left before Shock and Awe happens.

I just need to get the last name and unit of the OM and my cell phone bill.

I have researched what my legal obligations are while I'm deployed as far as $$, but I can reduce the money given to her, but she still makes more than me so it won't affect her much. On top of that she hasn't been spending much the last 3 weeks and told me on the phone that with our paychecks "we" should be set to hit "our" goal for the month. Where is this we stuff coming from??

Its like she is half in and half out of the Fog. I want the shock and awe to happen right after I get back from Iraq. Its too close to return to expose to everyone right now. Plus, like I said above he is gone for at least 10 months with I'm assuming from where our friend said they are going, will have few communication luxeries (sp.).

I am setting little boundaries with her this week. I have already shown her (over the phone) that I have control of me, not her, by staying in a good mood. She commented on that twice now. I have reversed the "only thing I have to look fwd to is the call" perception.

She is hearing the strong side of me. I have shared my feelings with her, and now I am going to throw another "jab" (I picked up boxing over here so I like that word). Since she reacted positively to the last 2 conversations I am not going to revisit those conversations, unless she does. What I am going to do is let her know that, though I can't do anything over here (wink wink), that I will not allow OP to be in our lives.

I am going to tell her one last time that I will do whatever it takes to save our marriage, but that he will have to go before we can get back on track.

Can anyone tell me where to go for the reverse babble???

Thanks again MWIL, its not often we hear than you's as soldiers. Its usually why? or what have you seen? I am proud to serve, but look fwd to being a civilian again and using either my intel job to get another intel job or going back to teaching.

Have a good one all!

Anyone,

I would also like to know where to find info on the 180's I keep reading about...please.

Also, I know now is not the time to introduce WW to this site, but when would? There is some good info for her to read, if she would be willing, to maybe help her?

Thank you much!