http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=different

Reread this over and over....it jives with the MB pricipals....however at first, it may seem "passive agressive", but with positive feedback from your actions....they become more natural, and thus more entrained in YOU!!

MWIL

Soldier,

A little background. I am a retired infantry first sergeant. I was also an IG for 4 years. I also had my wife cheat on me while I was deployed. So, here is what I suggest.

First, spend the money...do what you can...get buddies back here...in order to find out who this dirtbag is. His name, rank and unit. Get positive evidence that you can turn over to the IG. Do NOT give it to his commander, as some commanders might sweep things under the rug. The IG will not, as long as they have evidence. Wit this waste of oxygen leaving shortly, they will try to have as much time as possible. So, get a PI and have him get the goods. It will probably run you a few bucks, but it is worth it. If you dont have that, get your battle buddies back here to do soem recon missions for you. Tell them you will buy the beer when you get back!!

Have them log everything. Get pictures, etc of them together. That will be enough for the IG. Once you give to the IG, your OM may find himself in a world of hurt.

Soldier, you have a duty to reportthis slimeball. He does not belong in our Army! He has no honor, no integrity! He cannot be trusted with another soldier's life. Your duty is clear when it comes to him. He will get someone killed. He has shown that he puts himself above honor and integrity. We cannot afford such men in our Army.

Secondly, expose NOW! To everyone. Wait until your buddies get the evidence and then expose. You msut do this before he leaves! You must do this in the next week or so. You may think that exposure will hurt...but it will not. It will help. If you have more questions on that, please ask.

Last thing...just so I know where you are coming from...what is your rank? MOS? What type of unit are you in.

Soldier, you are not fighting this battle right now. Lean forward in the foxhole, place your selector switch on "semi" and watch your lane!

Standing in His Presence

US,

Mortarman is here! Awesome!

How is the DJ work coming? Are you catching a lot of them in your daily thoughts about what appears to be consequential?

I saw your post on Owning All Your Villagers Thread...thank you for looking it up...I have no doubt you're going both barrels...

We'll have to have the talk about you as a human being, not a human doing, uhm, later.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA

MM,

First, I'm glad to hear that things went well with your custody sitch!!! Secondly, thanks for the advice.

I am an E-5 (eligible for 6 board in Aug, but I am getting out in 19 months and see no point) 96 B (for those who don't know thats an intel analyst). I am assigned to an active duty artillery unit.

I have the cell bill on the way here. She doesn't know about it, unless she has intercepted some info meant for me regarding this topic last night on email. She uses my acct sometimes, but hasn't for a long time. She checked the mail I sent her, but for some reason didn't write back...Hope she didn't see anything.

I call tonight, so we will see.

My buddy is doing some recon, but i haven't called him in the last few days, which is why I'm concerned that he sent an email and she deleted it.

We are trying to get pics, but not to optimistic on that one. Will txt msg just be circumstantial, b/c that and her own admition are all I have right now? Is there any other evidence I can gather to prove this?

With a full exposure to her family and me returning in 2-3 months I'm worried about what I will come home to. I can handle the IG and command contact to get NC orders, I just don't know that I can handle the uncertainty of that outcome with no one there.I fear that she will self destruct and do even more that we will both regret.

I don't understand how this can help, with no support anywhere near her to put pressure on her and with him leaving.

Her mom is planning a visit next month to talk to WW.

I am grasping at straws and am in a unit that is very unsupportive of soldiers (the reason I am getting out). I cannot talk to my chain of command about this. They know I am having marriage problems, but not the extent b/c I didn't want them to think it was the combat stress getting to me. Only my OIC knows that I am going to IC.

I have never felt so out of control of my life before. I have a good day, followed by a couple bad days. I am able to focus on my work, so that is not an issue. I get hope from other threads, and some of her actions, but right now see little chance for us.

Thanks again for the post MM. I know time is short, but I have to have my facts before I can start a war.

I will scan my lane and do my duty, I just need to squeeze off the first round.

LA,

Thank you for the reply!!

I am catching alot of DJ's and stopping myself from thinking them. I also see how those things on my list are also inside of me. With the exception of dishonorable...I can't find this one in me.

I am trying not to mind read while dealing with the exposure issue, but its hard b/c in my head I know how she will deal with her privacy being destroyed. And it won't be good.

I'm at the point where all I can say is "we'll see".

Thanks again.

MWIL,

Thanks! That web site actually cleared up alot of stuff. I had a pretty busy day over here today, so not much time to read it, but I will explore to get more ideas.

I've already been doing these, so continuing will be easy!

Any place I can go for reverse babble advice??

Thanks again

From Orchid:

Examples of reverse babble:

WS: I need my own space.

Reverse babble (RB): Yes you do.

WS: I love you but I am not in love with you.

RB: Yes, me too.

WS: You need to move on.

RB: Yes I do. Here is a list of what I need.
1. All bills paid
2. New home, new furniture, etc.
3. New car
4. All Ens met for entire family
5. Children's education all paid for
6. Guaranteed alimony for life
7. Guarantee that you will never be difficult
to deal with.
8. WS meet with Steve/Jennifer or MC and
then show family how WS will keep the
family safe from any harm.
9. WS guarantee he/she will be there to
support family through good times and bad
10. WS never demand anything other than what
the family requests.
11. WS not put demands on family or stress them
out in any way shape or form.

Please share some of the comments you have received and 'we' may be able to give a 'sample' RB response or 2.

Part of reverse babble is to agree, then present something while the WS may be in a state of confusion or wonderment (shocked or confused at your being agreeable). Get in your point and them exit ASAP. Don't say too much. Sometimes I used to nod yes and say no or visa versa. Sounds silly? Well my H was sooo much in the fog, he would just shake his head and walk away. About 2 hours to 2 weeks later I would get a response.

I learned not to take his babble to heart. Eventually I learned to put back some of his responsibility on him.

example:

WS: Go get the D. I don't want to be married to you anymore.

RB: Me too. Go get the D.

WS: Why won't you talk to me? (I was in plan B). Don't you love me?

RB: Hm.... I don't know. Let me get back to you on that.

WS: Where is all the $$ I gave you?

RB: I don't know.

WS: Do you want me to come back?

RB: I don't know.

L.

I am glad also...


Arty, huh. I am a former mortarman (thus the name), so we speak the same language. And I now work in intel at the Pentagon, so look me up when you get out. Might be able to get you a job, especially if you have a clearance!


Work your intel processes. Not only do you want to mask what you are doing, you also want to feign things you arent doing. Let her think you are doing things you are not. If you want her to think you dont know yet, then send messages, etc to family and friends (that she will intercept) talking about how much you love your wife and although you are having difficulties, you are working on some big plans for your future together. Stuff like that! Lead her where you want her to go...and dont let her see where you are really headed...yet.


Get a Yahoo account. or something. You need commo with your people in order to pass info. Get this situation secure.


As I said, you are not there. This dirtbag is leaving soon for deployment. They will spend as much time as possible together. WSs are idiots when they are under the fog. They will do the stupidest things. They will flaunt things right out in the open. They wont be secretive. It will be VERY easy. All you need to do is station a guy or two at his home/your home, wherever you think they will hang out for the evening. Then they can snap pictures of them going in and coming out in the morning. They WILL be there! The next few weeks should be very easy. All you need to do is figure out her schedule.


Does he leave before you get back? If so, then I agree that you wait and get your ammo. That way when you hit the ground, you will be ready. My guys were back here gettign all of the intel I needed. They followed her, recorded her comings and goings. They hired a PI for court purposes, after they knew their schedule (saved money because PI only had to show up when they most likely would meet). When I got back from Bosnia, I had the world handed to me by them after I found out what had been happening.


Be careful about her relatives. Blood is thicker than mud.


Hang tight. You are doing fine.


I understand. Been there, done that...bought the t-shirt. Yo uare fine. You have a plan, she does not. Her outer brain casing is implanted in her waste disposal unit. She has no idea what she is doing! You have us, you have MB and the principles that have worked for many, many marriages. Read up on everything on here. You have a great shot. I did too. My issue is that my wife has some serious emotional issues that she may never overcome and that have caused her to make some horrendously bad decisions throughout her life. Even before I met her. I thin kwithout those, we would be doing fine today.


Okay. Keep a hold on your fire, while you get the rest of your intel. Be prepared to fire at any moment though.

Mission #1 is to get the intel. Do what you have to do. Pay out the case for a PI, get your buddies' help...whatever it takes. You must have the upperhand in this and you can only do so thru having the intel you need and at the same time, have your wife see that which is not there.

Standing in His Presence

She doesn't say much about this stuff.
MWIL

Thanks for the info, I may not have much as we do not discuss R stuff on the phone.

One thing she has said is that we got married b/c it was the next logical step and it was expected after 3 yrs together.

My reply was that her "reaction when I proposed didn't seem very "logical". You cried for 15 minutes and then got on the phone telling everyone, then we had to go to your parents house to show them"

We used to be so happy, all the time. Thanks again

Ahhh, US...a lesson in listen and repeat...

"One thing she has said is that we got married b/c it was the next logical step and it was expected after 3 yrs together."

Then you say, "I hear you chose to marry me as the next logical step, that you believed it was expected after being with me for three years, is that correct?"

This reply (yours)

"My reply was that her "reaction when I proposed didn't seem very "logical". You cried for 15 minutes and then got on the phone telling everyone, then we had to go to your parents house to show them" Was to refute her current truth...hers, not true...she's WAYWARD. Can't refute the fog...know why? She hears, "You liar...how I see it is the only way" and it justifies her waywardness...though that's not what you said...or did you?

"You got it wrong" could be what she hears...and then what she feels is, "He makes me feel bad. Wrong."

Not true, either. Refuting is arguing...listen and repeat.

"We used to be so happy, all the time."

Ownership, "I was happy all the time...and I believe my wife was also."

Doesn't sound much different maybe to you...to others, it says...not fact...his truth. No threat. No defining.

On the phone, listen and repeat..."You went shopping and had a great time with your sister?" "Work was hard today and you feel wrung out?"

Try it...please. To you it might sound annoying...be authentic...this is listening...offering what you heard (and you may be surprised) for clarification and confirmation. I think it is essential in Plan A, marriages, friendships, work relationships and definitely, my relationship with God...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Keep it coming...anything in your head is worth reading, IMO.

LA

MM,

Thanks for the break down. This is new ground for me and the first steps are always the hardest.

Let me begin by saying that I do have a clearance and have been in contact with the Dept of Homeland Defense. Definitely sitting high on the clearance scale, but unfortunately don't want to live in DC or a big city area, but I will look you up on this! I also have a BA and will begin MS degree upon return.

The MS decision is both b/c I've put if off long enough and to show wife that I can improve with or without her.

I am absolutely working the intel process. My buddy is going late tonight (Thurs night) to my apt to scope it out. I understand the trail of info for her to "accidentally" catch. Always try to change the face of the battlefield and keep the ememy guessing. Too easy.

Have switched email contact....line secure.

He leaves this week!! So I am very relieved 1) he's not there for her any more (hopefully some fog can clear) 2) I can be at the house when the exposure takes full effect and can counter her barrage with kindness and love.

I understand the concern on the MIL, she has always taken my side and is already upset with WW about her attitude towards fixing our problems. She actually told me to stop talking like its over, b/c WW will come to her senses when I get home for good.

--- I didn't want to expose so I just said we'll see. Thats when she said again that she is going to have a long talk with WW. Hopefully she stays on my side. Said I am part of the family even if WW and I D and had better come around often. This stuff tears me up inside b/c I am VERY close to the entire family.

Thanks again MM. I look fwd to the day when I can be in a position to help others like you have been. It seems like you are every where on these boards!

MM,

Thanks for the break down. This is new ground for me and the first steps are always the hardest.

Let me begin by saying that I do have a clearance and have been in contact with the Dept of Homeland Defense. Definitely sitting high on the clearance scale, but unfortunately don't want to live in DC or a big city area, but I will look you up on this! I also have a BA and will begin MS degree upon return.

The MS decision is both b/c I've put if off long enough and to show wife that I can improve with or without her.

I am absolutely working the intel process. My buddy is going late tonight (Thurs night) to my apt to scope it out. I understand the trail of info for her to "accidentally" catch. Always try to change the face of the battlefield and keep the ememy guessing. Too easy.

Have switched email contact....line secure.

He leaves this week!! So I am very relieved 1) he's not there for her any more (hopefully some fog can clear) 2) I can be at the house when the exposure takes full effect and can counter her barrage with kindness and love.

I understand the concern on the MIL, she has always taken my side and is already upset with WW about her attitude towards fixing our problems. She actually told me to stop talking like its over, b/c WW will come to her senses when I get home for good.

--- I didn't want to expose so I just said we'll see. Thats when she said again that she is going to have a long talk with WW. Hopefully she stays on my side. Said I am part of the family even if WW and I D and had better come around often. This stuff tears me up inside b/c I am VERY close to the entire family.

Thanks again MM. I look fwd to the day when I can be in a position to help others like you have been. It seems like you are every where on these boards!

PS. I have asked a couple times when I should tell her about this resource. I'm assuming after some of the fog has lifted would be best?? However, ther is so much info on here that could help her now... It would be easy to have someone else refer it to her. Just curious.

Had a very open conversation with WW last night. We started out just talking about stuff. Then she went into finances and asked how we were doing b/c the acct looked lower than it should. I told her I had to make sure I had enough to get a good pmt plan for my new vehicle.

Then she asked what I am going to do with the truck. It took me by surprise for a second and I didn't know what she was talking about. Then I realized I had said that if we go separate ways the truck stays b.c its in my name and credit.

I asked if she was really ready to just give up, and she asked if I really wanted to talk about this. I said yes I do.

Long story short she said that she cannot see us together. We have grown to far apart over the last 3 yrs with me being gone for 2 of those. She said how she had already tried and already held on and can't do it anymore.

She said that she didn't see any changes in me while I was home and that we are just 2 completely different people on two different roads.

She put out a couple of examples and I was busted on them. A couple months ago we had talked about moving to VA, so I thought this was still on (before I found out about A), but what I failed to do was talk to her about what she wanted. I continue to be selfish in some ways and it has I feel it has driven her even farther away.

The only thing she did recognize was that I completely took care of our dogs.

She said that while I was home on r&r she was pretending to be as happy as possible so I would have a good time. Thant hurt ALOT.

Then we talked about how we lost our connection last year, and I admit it was wavering. She'd push me away... I'd push her away. I talked about how I accept that half of that was my fault and apologized.

There was one specific instance that she was really hurt by a rejection and it haunts me everyday. I explained what was honestly going through my head and apologized from the bottom of my heart. She actually understood my reasoning, and said apology accepted.

This is where I said that I felt it was to easy to decide to make a decision to leave with me being so far away, and not giving us a chance. Then she repeated how she tried and I didn't, and how now I expect her to try again. I said that I was asking and hoping that she would, not that I expected her to (low pressure?).

I told her that this is inevitably her decision and I can't make it, but that I would ask that she at least consider that we can get that connection back. I told her that I don't feel that its completely gone.

This is where she kinda went from I'm done to even if.

She said even if we do manage to work things out all it would be is a companionship type of relationship. No SF, b/c she doesn't have a desire for me anymore. That one hurt, but of course she doesn't...OM (use your choice of explicives here) is meeting that EN. Our love life goes back to the earlier statement of pushing each other away, so it was a biweekly on avg thing. I tired alot more, but she worked late hours and I had early hours, so there was little connect time.

I may have made a bad comment here...."I understand what you are saying about the desire being gone, WW, and I am not trying to educate you, but I have done alot of reading and have found that if things can be built back up alot of times those feelings do come back" She said she just doesn't know.

Just a note....I stayed strong through the whole thing and she fought off losing it to tears (or so it sounded) twice, and I believe actually did cry once towards the end. Also I thanked her 3 times for sharing her inner feelings with me, it gave me a small glimpse of what EN's I need to meet. And a few things I need to improve on...I'm trying, but it takes more than a month to reprogram 20 yrs of life. I told her this also.

We went back to regular conversation, by my doing and decided that since we had this type of talks two weeks in a row on Wed/Thurs, that rather than trying to talk to her at work (no privacy) I will just call 1 day a week and we will continue to talk about important stuff, as she requests.

I may have surprised her as to how I handled what she was saying. I did get quiet a couple of times, but the moment passed and strength regained. I stayed calm and neutral, and listened. I did interject some defenses here and there, but I mostly listened.

Things look very, very bleak and I feel my strength for this will not hold out. The only thing that gives me hope is that I feel like there is a little fight in her, just hidden b/c of OM.

She is flying to stay with her parents for 4 days in Aug. Her mom wants to talk to her, should I keep her posted as to what WW says??

Is most of what she is saying fog talk, or rational? She never actually said divorce, but it sounds like its less than a step away.

This is kinda long, but I will probably be posting less and less as op tempo increases so we can get out of here. Even if things go for the worst, at least I won't be here.

Fog...Fog....Fog.....Don't let yourself listen to her right now!!!! She is justifing her behavior, with "problems" that you and her had.

Corrections, listen to her....but don't react!!!!!

My wife told me that "We didn't have a chance" That it was too late for us.....That was on X-mas eve last year!!!

Now....she says that she'll "probably be thanking me for the rest of her life"!!!!!

US.....how does this happen???? It isn't through manipulation....it isn't through self pity....it is through growth of YOU....all by yourself....making the choices in your life that WILL improve YOU!! You become more attractive!!! It is your WW's choice from there....and while she is a WW, she is in no position to make the "right choice"....

You might be saying "But my sitch. is different..." Don't do that to yourself!!! The worst that can happen.....already did!!! You are on the upswing, FOR YOURSELF....and the quicker you realize this, the quicker you'll be more attractive to her....but no guarentees, sir. And in the process of improving YOU....if she down the road doesn't see that....then you will still be improved...for someone else!!!!

But she won't see those improvements UNTIL THE A IS OVER!!! Your W is dead...for all intents and purposes....or at least in a coma...when she comes out of it, be the best person you can be...by following the advice and principles here. It will give you the best CHANCE at saving your M....for now, it is ON YOUR BACK!! What you do now, and the "plans" you follow are the key!! First up, do EVERYTHING YOU CAN to bust the affair up!!!! Number 1. But while you are doing that you CAN still be working on yourself, even when the anger comes from the alien. Know, in your heart, you are not doing it out of revenge, (Exposure, snooping, etc.) because you are being a man OF HONOR......HONORING AND VALUING YOUR MARRIAGE!!! BY DOING THE BEST TO SAVE IT!! You can draw strength from that, sir.

Day by day, hour by hour, ....breath...be safe....take care of yourself....we can guide you....but it is your stength that will get you there!

MWIL

MWIL,

Thanks so much for the post, it brought me up a little!

I hear what you are saying, the only way my sitch is different is that I am 12,000 miles away and have been for almost 9 months. Good News is that OM deploys in a couple days or today...somewhere in there.

WW is going to counseling, and it is doing her good as far as opening up goes, but not sure where it will lead for us.

Let me get this straight... No more reasoning or anything??? How do I keep the conversation going if all I do is listen and repeat?

Also, about the apology accepted thing.... is that a good step? By her understanding the reason??

Thanks again!!

Try, as hard as you can, to avoid any relationship talk, right now!!! Keep things as light as possible, and LISTEN to her....remember everything she says...as it pertains to non-relatinship talk.

It is when she tries to "justify" (in her own mind) why you and her "aren't working".....that you listen and repeat...it takes some getting used to.

When you talk to her on the phone....you end the conversation...with a "hey, hon....I have to get going now...have a nice night." That sort of thing. And then go do something...for yourself!! Practice this, it becomes natural after awhile.

Envision yourself talking to a new "girl" when talking to her, sound upbeat, you wouldn't tell a new girl you wanted a relationship with "how much you need her"...would you? You need to try as hard as you can to demonstrate to her that she is not "your life". That YOU are your life!!! And that you enjoy just talking and LISTENING to her. And since you are so far away, the best way for you to demonstrate to her that you're OK, is to always end the phone conversation with her. No "I miss you's" or "I'm thinking of you" or "I wish things were different" Just "Hey you take care...talk to you soon!"

As hard as it is to do from afar....show her YOUR strength and value in YOU!!! It is very attractive from anyone's POV. Think of all your buddies....or women for that matter. The one's that are "popular" are the one's that seem to have the most value in themselves...you had it before.

Keep plugging along, heal yourself!!
MWIL

Just checking in to see how you're doing.

LA,

I am soooo sorry....I somehow missed your post. Thank you for the lesson on listen and repeat. I will try this the next time she talks to me.

I have to tell you all that my WW is very lost right now. I talked to he bf last night and she said that WW is acting very strange. She is being unbelievably selfish and is making her mad.

I told her I suspected something and she said she is starting to wonder herself....planting seeds is easier to do than expose right now.

WW bf and husband are the ones who OM lived with. HE IS DEPLOYED NOW!!! He made them very mad, so I have allies in this against him when I expose. They will give me his info so I can contact his unit and possibly IG.

bf said that WW needs to be slapped by reality and start acting like herself again. She said that WW is back and forth and doesn't seem to know what side of the fence she belongs on. I wish I could help, but I know I can't. This is her fight.

bf is planning on having a strong talk with WW and calling my MIL, b/c she was apparently asked to let MIL know if WW started acting weird.

bf said that WW acting weird towards her started about 2 weeks ago. Can't figure out why it just started to effect their relationship?

On a side note.... OM tried to make an advance on bf after she was married and is dating her cousin STILL. This guy is true dirt... How could my WW fall for trash like this??

I am soooo MAD, I am very close to kicking her out the day I get home, but the next day I feel like we can start over. I don't let it rule my life, though it sometimes weighs heavily on my mind. I almost feel like I've become numb.

Thats all I have time for right now, so I'll post when I have more time and info.

LA, sorry again for my late response to you.

Thanks for the update.

The deployment is such good news! Not that it will end the A by itself, but it will sure cut down on contact.

Sorry if you mentioned this already, but I forgot, when are you going to be home next? Since you're already there and he has just left, I'm assuming it will be before he comes back. Talk about a huge advantage!

I know how you feel about wondering if you even care, or should care any more. You always have the option to walk away from her at any time, and you still have a number of weapons left in your aresenal. (I am not talking only about exposure; I remember that you did not want to expose until you were home.) You, at home in the flesh, meeting as many of her needs as possible, and demonstrating with words and actions what a wonderful man you are, will be a powerful pull against a sleazy OM who is half-way across the globe. It would still be powerful even if he was there, but how much more so when he is not!

You have time in your arsenal. Time is a deadly poison for nearly every affair on the planet.

You have the terrible dichotomy ripping apart your WW, between the good person she once was, and that a small part of her wishes she could become again, and the selfish alien. The tension only gets worse as your friend Time chips away at her and her fantasy world.

Post-exposure, you will have many family and friends who are willing to support you. And even if they buy into her lies, so what? Having to remember which story she has told to which people, and worrying about getting tripped up and exposing herself takes a lot of the fun out of sneaking around.

Eventually it will most likely just get more painful for her to keep going in the A than to quit. Very likely this will be after a while of Plan B, which is another very excellent weapon that has brought many an A down in ashes.

So you still have plenty left to do if you want to. Nobody will blame you if you decide you have had enough, but if you want to go farther, there is still quite a bit left that you can do. We will do all we can to help you, either way.

Apology accepted, US...

And thank you for your update. You're gonna have your days of feeling one way or the other...that's why God gave us feelings AND beliefs...stick to your belief that you truly want to save your marriage...and those days will settle down.

How are you doing in IC...how are the DJ catching?

All OP's are awful...the WS makes them up in their own minds...fog is real...believe me...

Do not compare yourself to OM...he was there...you weren't...end of comparison...you will be. Done.

Why don't you already have OM's last name if you talked to BF?

When you feel soooo mad...look behind it...what's the primary emotion? Then trace that emotion to the belief...great exercise in knowing yourself and focusing on you...when you feel exceptionally sharp pain, anger, etc., check your focus and you'll find it where it doesn't belong...where it has no control.

We're with you...lots of other military guys posting right now...look out for them, will you? Also, sbuilder posted and he's the BH of a WW with a military guy...maybe check in on him?

This helps you...to connect...to reinforce to Self you're not alone...

And you are not. Even when you skip my posts.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Heehee.

LA