Again, I'd like to point something out...

...IF WE KEPT THE PERSONAL ATTACKS OUT OF THE FORUMS AND POSTS, BUT CONTINUED TO CALL PEOPLE OUT ON THEIR ACTIONS SPECIFICALLY, INSTEAD OF ATTACKING THEM PERSONALLY...WE'D ALL BE DOING THE RIGHT THINGS


Calling out 2BN or Suzet on whether or not they told OMW is one thing...

But deliberately choosing words to hurt them or to put them down is entirely something different!!!!

AND THAT IS THE DISTINCTION HERE...

They didn't 'call Owl out' to defend them against being called out on their actions...

They 'called Owl out" because they were being personally attacked...because the poster used deliberately provoking and vulgar comments to attack them. That specific comment really had little to do with the questions and issues at hand. But because that poster deliberately chose to make it a personal assault on their character rather than try to calmly redirect and assist in dealing with the real issue, it escalated to this.

They called me out because they know that I'm as disgusted by the complete disregard of any attempt at courtesy by some posters on this forum as they are...and I'm simply not the least bit afraid to stand up and say something.

Think about it...if you were receiving advice from someone, would you take the advice to heart if that person continually made personal remarks aimed at hurting your feelings? Of course not.

And that's what's happening here.

Owl isn't even disputing whether or not OMW should be told here at this point...I'm just raising the fact that we should attack the problem...and leave the vulgar and disrespectful comments out. Or at least make some effort to act in a courteous manner to our fellow posters.

Bottom Line:

MB principles are what they are. They work, not for everyone, but for most yes they work.

The christian thing to do and the right thing to do would be to ensure OMW had the same right of choice as did OM & 2BN, and later 2BN's BS. No matter how much 2BNs BS complains and how painful it will be for 2BN, this is what is called CONSEQUENCES of YOUR ACTIONS! So the Christian thing to do as well as the MB thing to do is accept responsibility for your actions and learn to live with the consequences. You might just learn something here.

I can certainly understand how most BSs would be furious over the witholding of this very important information and denying OMW the ability and the right to choose.

What really gets me going is the way some FWSs want to continue expressing their entitlement with these types of displays. If you know that it is not right then don't do it. Most of all certainly do not come here to get a consensus to approve your behavior knowing that your behavior is the wrong thing to do.

Like a child going around to the adults asking the same question over and again until they find someone who will give approval, thereby removing their personal responsibility and pinning it on the person or persons who agreed with them.

Simple fact remains 2BN had an A = True Fact
It was physical (a PA) = True fact
Mel's statement is obvious had to happen for a PA
OMW needs to know = True Fact
2BN should tell OMW = Discussion (Should be True Fact)

Just my .02

Again, this thread isn't focused on whether or not 2BN or Suzet should tell OMW...it's focused on what is acceptable boundaries for posting to each other on this site are.

Mel's statement IS obvious...and also deliberately antagonizing and demoralizing and hurtful, and should have been worded in a way that left the focus on the problem...not on her callous remark.

Eagle, think back to when you and your WW (at the time) were posting here, and how people would constantly remind you of HOW you say something is as important as WHAT you say. I was one of those people making that same comment.

It still applies here as well. TO ALL OF US

That is my POINT! There simply IS no comparison between the act and the accurate words used to describe to it. Yet, the diversionary gnashing of teeth and mouth frothing is directed, NOT AT HER DESPICABLE ACTIONS, but at the words used to DESCRIBE it. I honestly don't believe that some here COMPREHEND that there IS NO comparison between the words and the ACT, yet they react only to the WORDS.

The words used to describe it are NOT the issue here, even though 2BNormal would like to make it such. All this fit throwing is nothing more than a diversion to avoid the topic at hand, which is telling her VICTIM what she has done to her.


Again, it is the ACT that is "rude," and "offensive." I am simply stating what she has done without mincing words. No one here is obliged to engage in doublespeak to accommodate 2B's guilty conscience.

There is no call to mince words or use doublespeak about what she did. It is not "rising above" anything to use respectful words to describe a sleazy, disrespectful act. That is silly. Her reaction to the mere mention of what she actually did reflects a person who has not come to terms with what she did. That is not an "attack" on her "personality," but a STATEMENT OF FACT. A very ugly truth that offends her to HEAR.

Owl,

So true and thank you for reminding me.

Your advice and LA's helped me a lot.

Owl, but you are not in a position to determine what constitutes "acceptable boundaries" for anyone other than yourself. It is up to YOU to define your boundary and up to ME to define MINE. You are not the MOD and are not in any position to determine any such thing for others.

So let's try, as you often do, to not play self appointed behavior cop YET AGAIN. It is the HEIGHT of arrogance to presume that you are in a position to dictate the posting behaviors of others on this board.

Yet, you continually attempt to do this to your great frustration. It hasn't worked in the past, and I suspect it won't work in the future. You can only control YOURSELF, Owl, ya can't control others. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Eagle,

I'm going to quote from you to show my concern about discerning a fact from an opinion (a belief)...

"OMW needs to know = True Fact" An opinion
"2BN should tell OMW = Discussion (Should be True Fact)"
An opinion.

The others were facts. I think you've hit exactly what is one of the roots of this happening repeatedly on our boards...

We reach for what we all SHOULD believe and feel it so strongly, feels like fact...remains opinion...belief...valid...individualized...

And moveforward's protection of unknown BS's who lurk and do not post choosing to not tell OPS' is a DJ, in my opinion, because what they read, learn and decide to do is from their beliefs...we aren't that powerful, that influential...they are as capable as we are of choosing their beliefs. And they do.

And they are the only ones who will bear the consequences of their own choices...we won't.

I would really like to see more I-statements in posts...I'm working on my own...feels less powerful, more honest.

LA

Perhaps,
but the thread that WAS the focus of that .......became the "your attacking me thread" ...which then led to this one.
So since this thread's topic intruded there .....doesn't seem out of bounds to address the original topic that lead to the creation of this one.
They seem pretty intermingled at this point to me.



Exactly!!

Sadly that's what many person's that run and tattle to the mods want .

Different thread, same approach.

By Claiming personal attacks or some other outrage
it takes each Thread off of "the point" (ie, what are you doing OR not doing) .....and drags it down to
"nanannna naaah naaaah" ---

"She started it" ----

"No, she did" -- ect, ect ect.

I've seen this tactic FAR too often in the last yr or so.

As soon as one cannot defend an actual position ......Hey, I know ....lets take offense with my opponent.

Not with their message mind you,
but with HOW they deliver said message.
That way the topic boils down to nothing more then chaos and taking sides.

I'm still waiting for the next phase, which usually comes down to someone pointing out that "its ONLY Your Opinion".
Well like Yea!

Then we get to move on & debate what "is" IS!

Meanwhile the actual topic ......is Lost in the wash.

*******************
Hey,
I agree that ML's approach might sometimes be a little different.
But her way ain't my way and vise versa.

IMO it takes all ways to Reach the largest audience.
Some coddle, some have tough love and everything in between.

Just KNOW that there IS a History with 2Be and ML.
So lets not get too worked up that a newbie is like being confronted on their first post or something. NOT the case at all.

Understand that some get frustrated when the same voices (that have every right NOT to take an action in their Own Life) decide to follow thread after thread,
spreading destructive advice as if its OK or otherwise acceptable behavior.

Besides,
When the 2 sides are arguing OLD arguments on new threads,
its gonna get heated.
Just the way it is.

[edited to add this is for everyone, not directly at You Owl]
Lastly:
Do what you WANT in your own life.
We can't stop or even influence you.

However,
DO expect to be Challenged When you Choose to come on and attempt to spread it to others. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
And that's gonna be every time! (As long a people of conscience are still here anyways).


******************
Sorry, was typing and LA got to the part about "what an opinion is" in the meantime. Told ya so. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

This is nothing more than a diversion. sigh....

p.s. I didn't mean your excellent post, toprope, I meant the whole premise behind the teeth gnashing thread!

"pulling down your panties"

pretty much throws ice water on

"we're just friends"

and exposure to the other unknowing betrayed spouse

is necessry to dispel the

"we're just friends" myth on the other end

being the unknowing betrayed spouse is CRAZY-MAKING

it's like drowning but not even realizing you have been thrown into the deep end of the pool

this conversation is NOT about words

it is about deeds

it is a conversation about

******** drum roll *********

[color:"red"]*** E X P O S U R E *** [/color]

"panties" and "getting it on" are not potty words .... they are an accurate description of the deed that causes so much hurt, so much devastation, and needs to be exposed to the innocent betrayed spouse so she may pull the knife of betrayal out of her back !

EXPOSURE WORKS

not to expose >>> wind up like Suzet* and Kiwi .... vulnerable once again .... and vulnerable still .... because NO exposure to the other betrayed spouse.

NON exposure is agreement to leave your FWW or FWH 's azz vulnerable!

2Bnormal, is not a bad person ... she is a very vulnerable woman who's marriage is still vulnerable due to lack of EXPOSURE.

PEP

HMM "accurate words used to describe it" So you were there and know she had panties on to begin with? You have observed pigs rutting and were there to see that the pigs' mating patterns were mimicked exactly in B2's act of adultery?

I guess if you were there and also have the knowledge of how pigs mate and their behaviours during such - you were simply using accurate words.

I do not believe you were present when B2 had her illicit sexual liaison. I canot speak for the pigs rutting, maybe you do know abut that. I think you were so frustrated with her, you just lost it and let her have it in a personally imagined scenario of her having sex with OM.

I do not believe this action of yours will change her mind about telling OMW. (I have addressed this on the thread for this purpose). I think it will continue to do what it has. Surprise those who do not know you well and take attention away from the real problem.

SP

Mel? How does your H feel when you say that to him, when he's telling you something that is important to him, that he'd like to POJA with you, and you say...

"This is nothing more than a diversion. sigh...."


LA

SP, I think we can safely assume here that 2Bnormal took off her panties before she crawled into bed with a married man. That is a FACTUAL STATEMENT, I betcha. Perhaps she left them on, who knows, but I think folks get the point. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Actually, I don't think that ANYTHING will ever induce 2BNormal to do the right thing and tell her victim. She is only vested in her own personal interests. She has tried every rationalization in the world to avoid doing so. When one doesn't fly here, she just comes back with another. She was reduced to searching the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous for loopholes in her post yesterday. I expect the Boy Scout creed will be next. So, I am not convinced there is anything that can coerce a clearly UNWILLING person to do something against their will.

You're right Mel...but I can still be enough of a pain in the behind until someone who DOES have the authority does something about it.


If I see something is wrong...if I see someone treating others in such a clearly disrespectful way...and continue to ignore...I'm condoning that behavior. If I see someone in an affair, and do nothing to stop it, I'm condoning it. We've all heard this before. We're ALL in a position to identify acceptable boundaries...otherwise, why would you be trying to get 2BN and other to take the actions that you feel that they need to do? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Granted, you didn't ask for my input...but if I see someone slapping their wife in public, do I not have an obligation to do something about it?



Top Rope-

I'm well aware of the history between 2BN and Mel here...I've been posting on this forum for over a year now myself. But that changes nothing...

And you may feel free to challenge me any time you like when I raise the issue of acceptable behavior...we'll have to continue to disagree.

Personally, I'm hoping that these continue threads and posts will motivate the moderators to take action.
I still struggle with understanding how it's OK and acceptable to treat people in this fashion...in person, via the internet...whatever.

I have not said that to my husband; I have said it to those on this thread who causing a diversion to the real issue, LA.