Just wanted to update and I am hoping maybe someone can give me some insight as to what is going on with me. H went to the psych. doc. He also believes that H is bipolar. H was put on an increased dosage of what he was already taking. He was also prescribed another medication for anxiety/paranoia. As it stands now H is supposed to have some blood tests done to monitor his med levels and I think the dr. will rx him an anti-d once he's been on the above mentioned meds for a month and is doing ok with those doses.

For about 3 weeks now, he has been quite a bit nicer, more stable, more consistent, not missing work, he has played cards some, but nothing like he use to. I have never seen him be this way, and if this behavior continues, I don't think I could ask for more from him.

Here is the problem for me. I am not able to be receptive to it, to him. I am not able to trust his behavior, it is foreign to me. My whole relationship with him has pretty much been chaos. One storm after another. I don't know how to handle his "calmness, his niceness". I don't know how to MAKE myself be receptive to him or to view him as anything else than what I"ve always known him to be.

I am starting to realize that I was mentally exiting my M before my EA started. I have always said that I wanted to wait this out and see what correct meds for bpd would do to H. If it could change his behavior, I would stay, but I also thought that with a change of behavior I would WANT to stay. It appears that it is changing his behavior for the better, but I don't know how to make myself want to stay.

I'm realizing that I do feel love for H, but it is not the type of love a W should feel for a H to sustain a happy, healthy M. I am also realizing that it has never been that type of love. It is more of a "caregiver" type of love. I have been his "mom" for so long that I don't view him and never have viewed him as an equal or a partner in this M. I don't know how to change that.

I always thought that once he was "better" or once he "saw the light" we would live "happily ever after." I'm starting to fear that this "niceness" came too late. I'm afraid that somewhere in my mind I've already given up on this M. I am hoping that someone here can give me some direction/input/words of advice about how I can change that.

H IS trying, he IS going to counseling, he IS taking his meds, he says he'll do anything, says he's sorry for the way he's treated me, says he wants to start a new life. Problem is...I don't know if I have anything left in me to give to this M anymore. I literally CRINGE when he touches me and even when he talks to me. Before OM, I'd NEVER been this way with H. It makes me short with him, which frustrates him AND makes me a stressed out mess.

I'm going to be honest and say that part of me WISHES he would start behaving like his old self to give me a reason to leave. He has not done that. So I feel like if he is trying - I HAVE to try as well. I feel it is my DUTY as my kid's mother. I OWE it to them. Even after the way he's treated me for so many years, I feel that I HAVE to try for our family. I WANT to want to try. I don't know how.

I am afraid that with everything he's done to me and because of what I felt with OM that there has been too much love lost for my H. How do I change that? How can I get past the resentment that I feel towards him for the way he's treated me throughout the years? How can I fall in love with my H the "right" way? I don't want the caregiver love that I had before.

H is being more consistant, more stable, sought out professional help, professes his love to me daily, says he'll do anything, he's sorry for the way that he's treated me he says he'll fight for me and that he loves me more than life itsself. H is in pain and turmoil every day because he knows that I don't feel the way that I use to about him now. He beats himself up up daily because he knows he didn't care for our M the way that he should have. Now more than ever he realizes the damage he's done. If only he'd seen this 2 years ago - if only. Believe me - it's not because I didn't verbalize my unhappiness along the way. I verbalized it constantly. It fell on deaf ears.

My question - does anyone have any words of advice as to how I can love my H and have a healthy M? How can I view him as something different than what I've always viewed him as? If his behavior continues, I feel like I HAVE to stay in this M. How can I make myself WANT to stay? Any book recommendations? Any old posts? Any words of advice? Anything?

I will take negative criticism, but I hope before someone negatively posts that you'll first read through my previous posts and see what I've had to endure in this M so you'll understand why I feel the way that I do. Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.

****bump*****

Your feelings are a stardard response to not having you needs met, and to living with constant Love Busers over many years.

They can change in time, but it will take time for sure.

I would guess this is more difficult perhaps than you ever imagined it would be.

What scares you the most?

If you havn't read
"His Needs, Her Needs" then get it and read it.

I also suggest "Love Busters, Habits that destroy Romantic love."

Using these two books, my W and I went from bad to good in two years. Dr Harley tells you how to fall in love again, and I can tell you it works.

Now, you already know it won't be easy. This is the point where many marriages fail. The BS (you) has endured so much that even when it looks like their spouse is willing to try, they can't bring themself to put any more effort into recovery.

If you were to go back and read your entire thread over again, you would see concern that this would happen, and some suggestions on re-starting love for your H.

This is the point where you must make a decision. If you choose to craate a new marriage out of the ashes of the old one, you have much to learn. (SS smiles - )

Callie, please don't beat your self up. Your feelings are a natural result of what has happened. Please don't be afraid. You really can fall in love with him again - but it's a choice you make, not an automatic result of his meds working for a few weeks.

I also recommend you call in for counseling. I think you will be happy if you do, and I think it will help a great deal.

The best tools you have right now are time, and patience.
Reading and learning (the books, and this web site) will help too.

Don't be afraid to talk about how you feel from day to day. It usually helps.

Hope the twins are still enjoying school. Our twins are lamenting the amoung of homework they have to do.

Such is life.

SS

I'm changing the title of this post in hopes of getting more input from MB posters.

SS - thanks for your response. I always appreciate hearing your words of wisdom.

What scares me the most...well I would have to say the answer to this is that I'll be let down again, failed again by him. If I start to chip away at the walls that I've built up to protect myself from him and he goes back to the "old H". Then I'm left raw, exposed and vulnerable. I'm also afraid that if I / We put the hard work necessary into repairing this M - we may find that we have nothing left, that the love cannot ever be the "right" kind of love needed for a healthy M. What I mean by this is that I may never be able to replace the "motherly" love that I for him with the love that encompasses equality, partnership, trust, respect, appreciation. I guess time will tell and I know that it will take just that...time. I also will say that although I feel that these fears hold great merit, they won't stop me from trying. I will cautiously try, but I will try. I have to also say that what drives me to try is firstly my kids. Secondly, if it does lead to D, I will honestly be able to say that I did everything possible to repair the M. I will be able to look into their eyes and KNOW that I did my best.

I will order the books today. I had an appt with the most recent IC that we'd went to. I went to him quite a bit by myself and hadn't been there for a few months. He was very suprised when I made the appt. and he got me in right away. He thought for sure that I'd need help working through a D. He was simply stunned that I was there otherwise. He was also amazed at the changes that H has made with the upped dosage of meds. He was optomistic, but also leery. I feel exactly the same way. I am optomistic, but I will also "watch my back" with H. This feeling of "watching my back" is something that I hope to be rid of someday. It is such a hard thing to be this way / feel this way with the person that you chose to be your partner in this life. The person that you are supposed to be able to trust, respect, admire.

IC also felt that I needed to have some sort of timeline and some sort of plan. The reason for this is because I've pretty much "floated" along through the last year with no concrete direction. I've pretty much been at the mercy of H, his moods and what he will do as far as treating his bipolar. I agree, I also know that I need to be very direct with H regarding my EN's. I will print out the EN questionaire today and we will both fill it out this week.

I also took a big step and told H about what I've been thinking. About how I was subconsciously banking on him failing me with stepping up to his bipolar. About how I've been consciously AND subconsciously exiting this M for sometime now. About how I felt love for him, but it was a maternal, caregiver love. I've never loved him as a W should a H, I've never felt intimacy with him, trusted him or respected him. I told him about the monumental amount of resentment that I feel and that I don't know how to get past it. Also said that I'm not able to be fully receptive to him because I don't trust him. He took it pretty well and said he didn't blame one bit for the way that I feel. It upset him, but I told him that I took a chance on being honest with him. He has two choices, he can either be mad, turn it against me or he can help me try to work through this. He said he wanted to do the latter.

I really believe that he means this, but I don't know if he's cut out to do the monumental amount of work that it takes to do so. I guess we will see. One positive thing is that he's communicating with me. He's NEVER communicated with me EVER. Maybe a sentence here and there, but that's it. The meds are REALLY helping with this so far. I can tell through his words that he is thinking more and processing more, which is very good.

You said that the best tools I have right now are time, and patience. Reading and learning (the books, and this web site) will help too. I fully agree with this and plan do to just that within the next few months.

Thanks for asking about the kids. They're fine, they love school, but HATE getting up at 6:30 in the morning. It is a struggle which I dread every day! Once they're up for about 20 minutes, they're fine, but it's a killer 20 minutes! They will be 6 next week, so they're excited getting their "wish lists" ready. Hope all is well with you and thank you again for your help and support.

Ok, I seem to be technically challenged on changing the title of this post - hopefully this worked??

Callie- to change the title that is shown on the table of contents, go to your very first post and "edit" it. Change the subject line to your new title. That should do it.

I am in the same postition as you. 15 years married, I had an EA, and my husband and I have NEVER had an intimate healthy marriage. It is scary to think about, but we are going to try to "start fresh". Here is our story:
Messdup and Saturn

I have doubts about my situation too, but I'm going to try. Maybe we can help each other. I'll be watching your progress and you have my best wishes.

Thanks for your help SaturnRising - I guess my post must be too old because I'm not able to edit the title.

Best wishes to you as well. I'll read your story.

Hello again. (grin)

It's good to see you worrying about recovery. Of the marriage problems one can worry about, this is one of the better ones.

Not to make light of how difficult it is, but trying to put this into perspective.

I suspect you are waking up many mornings wondering "what's going to happen today?"

Given the history of your marriage, trust is something that will need to be earned, not something that you should freely give. Don't feel bad about the lack of trust, it's another thing that will come with time.

We often hear "patience is a virtue."
You have wondered (probably quite a bit the last year or so) if patience was a mistake.

I believe the time will come when you will know for sure that you did the right thing by trying as hard as you have done.

Dr Harley is good at what he does, you will feel much better about this when you have read the books. Please suggest your H read them also. My W read HNHN and got on board with helping me, because it is so logical and she believed it had merit.

Let me know what you think.

I found HNHN at our local library, but after a few weeks, I bought both the books to have on hand. They have been a great help to us.

Last year our girls had to be on the bus at 7:00 am, but this year they go to a different school, and for this bus, we are the last stop before the school. They don't have to be on the bus until 7:45. They like that much better.

We started putting them to bed earlier and earlier until they were easier to get up in the morning. We found one of them can get by on about 7 hours of sleep, but the other needs 8 1/2. Interesting what you learn.

I hope birthday time is a fun time for you. Does H get involved and help out with events?

This will be a process, and from day to day you will wonder if there is progress. Look at the big picture at about........ Christmas time perhaps. You'll have a good idea where you are, and be able to make changes if needed.

I'll be praying for you right along. For all of you. Please come talk to us if you have bad days. I have never considered your vents to be unimportant. Better to vent here than to hold it in.

There are those who complain too much, and there are those who talk when they should, and are quiet when quiet is best, and there are also those who should talk, but just can't bring themselves to do it very often.
I could say more about this, but you probably get it already.
It occurs to me to ask - do you take teasing well?

I think you will do well. I have high hopes for you.

Make sure you smile every day, they say it's good for your face.

SS

SS - I do take teasing well, but believe it or not, I'm better at dishing it out! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks again for your support. The books are on their way. I'm proceeding with much caution, but at least I'm moving and not being complacant (sp??).

I look forward to the books. I don't know if they will help my specific situation or not, but hope they do and can AT LEAST give me some insight. You know IC re-iterated that M's involving a BPD spouse have about a 10% survival. Not good odds. I guess if I'm going to be one of the 90% that fail, than I will walk away KNOWING that I've done everything that I as a W can do to save a M.

H loves his kids more than life itsself. He is for sure involved in their birthdays. We usually have a party for them, but this year they want to go to Chuck E. Cheese (UGH - can't STAND Chuck E. Cheese - especially on the weekends!) But it's THEIR birthday!

Yes, I do wake up every morning wondering what will happen nest. With past history, I know that I can have the rug pulled out from underneath me by H in a split second. That is why I say I'm cautiously proceeding.

I also know that my decision will come. I know myself well enough to know that I will exhaust ALL options before giving up. This is probably the most important decision that I will ever make in my kid's life. I know that I will take myself to the brink before I make a decision (I know - not the most healthy for me, but that's me.) BUT when that decision is made, it will be made. I will either proceed with this M or the guilt will be minimized if I leave. I honestly feel like this is the last option - I really am at the end of my rope.

As far as the lack of trust. H knows I don't trust him farther than I can throw him. For the first time, I think he understands why. I've come to realize that this is one of the TOP EN's I have and rightfully so.

I am approaching this by being straight forward with H as far as what I need and what I think us as a couple and us as a family need. I will support him, guide him, push him, but in the end I can't do it for him. Either he steps up to what is needed or he doesn't. I guess we'll see.

SS, you HAVE to be getting fed up with me, and my wishywashyness. (is that a word??? - I guess it is in my world) But thank you for your support and insightful words. It means more than you know. Thanks again - you've been most helpful to me and hope you can continue to give me your insight.

SS, you HAVE to be getting fed up with me, and my wishywashyness.
I haven't seen that in you yet.

What I do see is someone who is trying really hard. Someone who gathers informaition and then tries to do the best she can with what she knows. Sometimes the information and advice you get is conflicting. You are not changing your mind from day to day, but only after much thought and careful consideration. I hope your consideration includes prayer - it helps.

So, anyway, the bottom line is I was puzzled when I read that I "have to be fed up." (Says SS with a teasing smile)

When a person tries as hard as you have been trying, one gains respect for them, one does not get fed up.

Ok, probably spent enough time on that one - <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Dr Harleys program is lots more than just reading the books.
There will be things to do, but you need to read and get background first. I am excited for you, I can't tell you in words just how good Harley's materials are, and how much they help. This part I have been through, and perhaps can offer first hand help and advice.


On birthdays:

We let our daughters pick between:
1. Going out to dinner.
2. Having a party.
3. Getting a gift.

Sometimes they have a gift all picked out. Often they try to work the system - one picks party, and the other wants dinner out, in the hopes that they will get to go with the other - and have both.
Usually they pick a NICE place to eat - but sometimes it takes some coaching by their dad.

We also do a family dinner for them - they get to pick whatever they want for dinner that evening - and of course they choose their birthday cake. With twins, it is more difficult, so sometimes its on different nights.


SS - I do take teasing well, but believe it or not, I'm better at dishing it out!

Ok, go ahead, I can take it.

SS

Wanted to update and hopefully get some opinions. I need to get it out and I want to be accountable. My mind is all over the place right now. I don't mean as if I'm going crazy or losing it. I mean as in feeling out of control as if I can't get a grip as in I'm very unsettled, my mind is spinning and @ war.

I am hesitant and embarassed to even type this, but I have to say it and I know what is right and what is wrong. My H has started taking something again. I'm not sure what, but it is some kind of rx something (unprescribed.). I am usually very stupid when it comes to detecting this, but I'm starting to detect it. I don't think it's daily - maybe 1-2 times/week?? I wouldn't have a hard time believing that it is daily though - maybe he's taking something @ work and it's worn off by the time I see him the next day because he's sleeping it off. I called him on it last week and suprisingly he admitted that he had taken something, but wouldn't tell me what it was. He views taking pills as his way of "getting drunk". He doesn't view it as illegal and does it with the same intent as if someone were having a drink to unwind. He does it to get away. He knows it's wrong, but he really thinks lightly of it. He also did it this weekend and was basically "out of it" all day Sunday. He denies that he took anything. He was stumbling around, slurring words, he fell asleep upstairs on the couch yesterday with a lit cigarette in his hand. I found it still burning on the floor.

On top of that he's started sporadically missing a little bit more work, sleeping all of the time (9-14 hours a day) and his card playing has increased after he'd done pretty well at managing these things for a few months. He started seeing his psych doc about 4 months ago and since then has missed appts, or maybe the dr. says come back in 2 weeks and he'll reschedule in 3 so he's not going as often as he should. He's adjusted his meds against dr's orders. He was supposed to have a blood test 4 months ago to monitor med levels. He has not done this. I suspect because of drug use. He was supposed to (drs orders) schedule an appt with the psych dr's counterpart (a therapist) and he has not done that. Overall since his diagnosis in May he has half assed stepped up to treat his bi-polar.

I am realizing that this is probably as good as he will get. I don't think he is capable of living a normal, stable, respectable life. I think it is due to the combination of bi-polar and his upbringing. I can see his behavior is losing control without me there with a strong mind to guide him. I am also reflecting on our R and can see that he's ALWAYS been this way. It has ALWAYS been a battle with him. The difference before is that I was strong enough to fight it. I am not strong enough to fight it anymore.

I feel like now that I've seen the "other side" (OM) I cannot go back and fight this battle anymore with H. I've learned just how much of a war that I've been in in my M. We've went to 4 MC and really they all say the same thing. I thought if I stuck it out that maybe I could come around - I don't think I can.

I know that my H loves me and I will always be "the one" for him, but I can feel love lost from him towards me. We can now somewhat calmly sit and talk about a life not together. Seperation and or divorce are talked about more freely between us. I've tried to pound it in his head during the last 6+ months that this is about US not OM and I. I've had NC for about a year.

I will say that I think my H needs on an anti-d (hence the blood test he's not taken). AND he needs to work closer with his psych doc. He has not done this and I just don't see it happening. He will step up on these issues for a while, but always reverts back to the same. He just continues to flounder around as he always has. He's been this way ever since I've known him.

I want to have a happy family. I want to have lazy Sunday afternoons after church, I want to have "game" night with my kids, I want to have family dinners EVERY night. I want to be happy and content and trusting and secure. I am not any of those things nor have I really ever been in my M.

M is still in shambles and I don't know how to fix it. I don't really think it can be fixed to a point of being happy. How much time should I give this M? H found out about my EA 1.5 years ago. I've been struggling in this M for AT LEAST that long. How much time should I give this?

I feel like I'm drowning right now in my life. I can't keep up with anything. I for sure think I'm depressed but is it fair to blame that on H or my M? Would my life be that much happier / relaxed without him here? I've tried picturing many daily scenarios in my life as if my H weren't here and am starting to wonder if we would all be better off without his drama. The drugs are only every so often but he's ALWAYS done them sporadically. I can cover up the drugs, cards, missed work, laziness to my kids right now, but what about when they're older? He says he won't do these things when they're older, but he ALWAYS has done them so why would I believe that anything in the future will change? This isn't something that I believe in, this isn't something that I stand for or agree with. By staying M to him am I condoning this?

I feel like I keep giving him chances (quit drugs forever, spend $ responsibly, start going to work EVERY day, cut the cards so much, quit smoking, quit sleeping 10-12 hours a day and being lazy etc. - again he'll work on these things for a while, but always reverts back to the same) because I have always believed in him, like I've always had hope that he could be a respectable moral person. I have also hoped during the last year that I could move on from my EA and that my feelings for my H would return. They have not and are not - I care about him and feel love for him, but it's more of a motherly love. I am not sure how much time you can / should give for that. At this point I don't think I can find enough happiness in my M to stay. I am a strong person, but this is affecting me. It is just so hard to let go and give up all hope.

It's becoming apparant that he's not going to change as drastically as he needs to for me to be M and love him AND trust him the way a W should a H. I feel as if I have to do something before I sacrafice myself. I'm embarassed to even type all of this. Unfortunately this is my life - things that are probably very obvious and shocking to those reading have been pounded in my head repeatedly as being normal. Drugs alone should be a deal breaker, but I've dealt with it so much that it is normal for me. I know my thread hasn't gotten alot of response given the time it's been posted, but I'd like some input on what I've said here. Am I wrong in my thinking, in my expectations? Is it better for my KIDS if we sep/D? I can take brutal honesty, but please read some of this thread so you know what I've dealt with before letting me have it. Thanks for your input.

BTW - I've read Lobe Busters, Falling in Love Stay in Love, His needs Her needs. All good books, but they really haven't helped our M. H and I have talked about them, but he's not going to read them. He wants the cliff notes. I can see that the Harley's principles would work with rational, consistant people - I'm not sure H is that.

I'm working on a reply, and because it will be long, it will take a while.

In the meantime, if you see this before I finish the long post, will you tell me what your plans are today.

I mean your daily routine......... what are you doing? Kind of give me a time line of how the day will go.

And please do one more thing just for me - Please?

Smile........... Smile a really big smile, and believe in yourself. You were not sent here to fail, but to succeed.

I believe when you read this, you'll feel it's true. Think on it........... I believe it will help.

SS

Hi Callie,
It's good to hear from you. When you are struggling as you have been, and you don't write often, it's hard to know how you are. I have wondered.


Wanted to update and hopefully get some opinions. I need to get it out and I want to be accountable. My mind is all over the place right now. I don't mean as if I'm going crazy or losing it. I mean as in feeling out of control as if I can't get a grip as in I'm very unsettled, my mind is spinning and @ war.

You want to leave, but you don't know if you should. For a person who wants to do the right thing, it's very difficult when you don't know exactly what that is.


I am hesitant and embarrassed to even type this, but I have to say it and I know what is right and what is wrong. My H has started taking something again. I'm not sure what, but it is some kind of rx something (unprescribed.). I am usually very stupid when it comes to detecting this, but I'm starting to detect it. I don't think it's daily - maybe 1-2 times/week?? I wouldn't have a hard time believing that it is daily though - maybe he's taking something @ work and it's worn off by the time I see him the next day because he's sleeping it off. I called him on it last week and suprisingly he admitted that he had taken something, but wouldn't tell me what it was. He views taking pills as his way of "getting drunk". He doesn't view it as illegal and does it with the same intent as if someone were having a drink to unwind. He does it to get away. He knows it's wrong, but he really thinks lightly of it. He also did it this weekend and was basically "out of it" all day Sunday. He denies that he took anything. He was stumbling around, slurring words, he fell asleep upstairs on the couch yesterday with a lit cigarette in his hand. I found it still burning on the floor.

You seem concerned about appearance. (I paused for quite a while thinking.) Maybe that's not the way to say it - or what I mean to say.
You almost seem to take his faults on to you. You seem ashamed that he has this problem, and you have a difficult time discussing it with us, even though this is an anonymous form. This is not your problem - what I mean, is it's not your fault, and I don't think badly of you when I read it. It is your problem in that you are married to him, and you need to know what to do about it. I don't mean to minimize how serious it is, or how difficult it must be to cope with it. I want you to learn to separate the things that happen, and the things he does from your identity. You are a unique wonderful person who happens to be married to someone who needs lots of help. - more about that later.

On top of that he's started sporadically missing a little bit more work, sleeping all of the time (9-14 hours a day) and his card playing has increased after he'd done pretty well at managing these things for a few months. He started seeing his psych doc about 4 months ago and since then has missed appts, or maybe the dr. says come back in 2 weeks and he'll reschedule in 3 so he's not going as often as he should. He's adjusted his meds against dr's orders. He was supposed to have a blood test 4 months ago to monitor med levels. He has not done this. I suspect because of drug use. He was supposed to (drs orders) schedule an appt with the psych dr's counterpart (a therapist) and he has not done that. Overall since his diagnosis in May he has half assed stepped up to treat his bi-polar.

When what you are doing is not working, it's time to look at doing something different. He stepped up for a short time, and we know he can. But he has fallen off the wagon again. Unless he has sufficient motivation to change, he won't change. This is true for all of us, however the needed stimuli is different for each of us also. Some never reach the level needed for change. A very few are not capable of making the changes needed. You fear he is one of these.

I am realizing that this is probably as good as he will get. I don't think he is capable of living a normal, stable, respectable life. I think it is due to the combination of bi-polar and his upbringing. I can see his behavior is losing control without me there with a strong mind to guide him. I am also reflecting on our R and can see that he's ALWAYS been this way. It has ALWAYS been a battle with him. The difference before is that I was strong enough to fight it. I am not strong enough to fight it anymore.

We already discussed your feelings about leaving him alone for a while - and you felt like you would have a hard time separating without making it final. Separation tends to preserve the love you have for him. You don't have to deal with his problems on a daily basis, so you can stay married, and give him time. I am not telling you what you ought to do. I don't know if this is something you should do, or not. I believe you wanted to hear options - this is one of them.

Of course, you can divorce him. I wouldn't fault you for that. Before you do anything, you need to know it's the right thing. I believe there is a way you can know for sure.

I feel like now that I've seen the "other side" (OM) I cannot go back and fight this battle anymore with H. I've learned just how much of a war that I've been in in my M. We've went to 4 MC and really they all say the same thing. I thought if I stuck it out that maybe I could come around - I don't think I can.

I think you have ZERO chance of coming around before he does. That is, if he woke up tomorrow, and was everything a husband ought to be, you could make it. But as long as he continues to abuse your relationship, I don't believe you can do it - short of a miracle. I believe you have gone too long now, and are worn out with the effort. This is naturel, and it happens often. The key is where do you go with it now?

In your case, I think you could be happy with many other men, or even by yourself, because it would take so much less energy to maintain a normal relationship. Just stay away from men who are already married (said with a half smile. The smile is because I am teasing in a way, but it's only half a smile because I know how painful it must be, and I don't mean to add to your heartache.) I do think it's good to face the future with humor. I hope this helps, not hurts.

I know that my H loves me and I will always be "the one" for him, but I can feel love lost from him towards me. We can now somewhat calmly sit and talk about a life not together. Separation and or divorce are talked about more freely between us. I've tried to pound it in his head during the last 6+ months that this is about US not OM and I. I've had NC for about a year.

I believe part of your fear of leaving your H, is that you owe him something because of what you did. Perhaps that is true, but you can't work beyond your ability. The four MC's you have been to see care about both of you. The counsel you received takes both of you into account. I believe it was the same in every case. Think about that too.

I will say that I think my H needs on an anti-d (hence the blood test he's not taken). AND he needs to work closer with his psych doc. He has not done this and I just don't see it happening. He will step up on these issues for a while, but always reverts back to the same. He just continues to flounder around as he always has. He's been this way ever since I've known him.

When a person is told what they must do, and they refuse to do it, does the doctor need to keep following up, and calling them, and reminding them, or does the Doc tell them, and let them choose?

How about a wife?

I want to have a happy family. I want to have lazy Sunday afternoons after church, I want to have "game" night with my kids, I want to have family dinners EVERY night. I want to be happy and content and trusting and secure. I am not any of those things nor have I really ever been in my M.

It is right for you to seek for these things. You say little about yourself, and your personal needs, but these are important too.

M is still in shambles and I don't know how to fix it. I don't really think it can be fixed to a point of being happy. How much time should I give this M? H found out about my EA 1.5 years ago. I've been struggling in this M for AT LEAST that long. How much time should I give this?

When you first came to MB, I thought you had already given it too long. I wanted to advise you to separate then. However, you realize that we are not the ones that can make that decision. That you are so torn over it shows how serious it is, and how great the consequences.

I feel like I'm drowning right now in my life. I can't keep up with anything. I for sure think I'm depressed but is it fair to blame that on H or my M? Would my life be that much happier / relaxed without him here? I've tried picturing many daily scenarios in my life as if my H weren't here and am starting to wonder if we would all be better off without his drama. The drugs are only every so often but he's ALWAYS done them sporadically. I can cover up the drugs, cards, missed work, laziness to my kids right now, but what about when they're older? He says he won't do these things when they're older, but he ALWAYS has done them so why would I believe that anything in the future will change? This isn't something that I believe in, this isn't something that I stand for or agree with. By staying M to him am I condoning this?

I think you should quit covering for him right now. Staying with him doesn't mean you condone it, it means you want to help. However, covering for him does look like you condone it. One of the reason God gives consequences is that they are a catalyst for change. I have a hard time knowing what to say - you have been through so much already. More drama is not going to give you rest, but you need to distance yourself from the things he is doing wrong, to the point of letting him get caught if that's what it takes. Don't worry so much about what others will think, but worry about what is right, and best for him. You should also worry about what is best for you, and for the twins. You are correct in that he has shown no reason for you to trust him to change when they get older.

This sounds like a cry for help from you. I don't think you should ignore your feelings. I worried about you last summer, and you felt you could still try for a while. I worry more now. There is no doubt in my mind that you COULD be happier without him. However, I still believe you won't be able to rest unless you know you are doing the right thing.

I feel like I keep giving him chances (quit drugs forever, spend $ responsibly, start going to work EVERY day, cut the cards so much, quit smoking, quit sleeping 10-12 hours a day and being lazy etc. - again he'll work on these things for a while, but always reverts back to the same) because I have always believed in him, like I've always had hope that he could be a respectable moral person. I have also hoped during the last year that I could move on from my EA and that my feelings for my H would return. They have not and are not - I care about him and feel love for him, but it's more of a motherly love. I am not sure how much time you can / should give for that. At this point I don't think I can find enough happiness in my M to stay. I am a strong person, but this is affecting me. It is just so hard to let go and give up all hope.

I don't believe it is possible to love (romantic love) someone who you fear, or someone that you can't respect. The two of these together make it nearly impossible for you to be in love with him. Love is something we crave. You have been quite some time without, and you have the memories of your feelings for OM to haunt you too. I hope you understand that I don't fault you for what happened. I don't believe you understood about love, and how the love bank works. I believe it would have been almost impossible for you to keep from having feelings for someone else - given what was happening in your marriage. Now that you do know, I expect you will protect yourself, and that you won't let it happen again.

Meeting needs is only part of being in love. I think the LB's that he is doing would kill any love that meeting needs might bring, even if he was meeting your needs well - which he doesn't appear to be doing. I think we discussed (or linked to) the four rules of recovery before. Honesty is one of these - something you are not, and have not been getting.

I am repeating this line again - for emphasis.
I am a strong person, but this is affecting me. It is just so hard to let go and give up all hope.

You have never been a quitter. All your life, you have been able to make things work. It is so foreign to you to admit you can't make this work too. I think that's the wrong train of thought though. God loves all of us, and he has the ability to force us to change. Force is not the method he uses however.
He lets us suffer consequences, he encourages us, he loves us, and gives us every opportunity, but he lets us choose for ourselves. This is what you are dealing with. Your H has free will, and in trying to save him, you are being dragged down too. Perhaps it is time to let go.

This is not about you, and your ability. It is about him, and his choices. You would help if you could, but he is refusing the offer by his actions.


It's becoming apparent that he's not going to change as drastically as he needs to for me to be M and love him AND trust him the way a W should a H. I feel as if I have to do something before I sacrifice myself. I'm embarrassed to even type all of this.

It's understandable that this is difficult. It's not working, and it looks like it will never work. This is a terrible place to be. Standing on the brink ........... looking off.......... wondering what will happen. Please don't fear talking to fellow travelers. Now, can I change the subject ? Really, I think we can connect it all together, but it's kind of a change in direction.

Heaven -

What is heaven like? Think for a minute before you read further.

Is heaven a place where all the perfect people of the world will go? People who have never made mistakes? Those who never had troubled marriages, those who had perfect kids?

Or is will heaven be filled with people like you and I? Those who struggled, who fought a good fight who's lives were filled with pain, and hardship, but who trusted in God, and who got help from God, and through that help were able to overcome the world.

What do you think?

If you read the scriptures often, you might remember that Malachi refers to this life as "the refiners fire."
What an apt description of this life we live. Malachi says "he will purify the sons of Levi, as gold, and silver." Please don't think your turmoil is in vain. It is necessary that the refiners fire be hot. It doesn't work any other way. If it burns - well, being purified is not an easy thing. What you read here won't make the problems go away. It may help you cope. We hope it does.

Remember that we all face our own fire. We become purified, or we burn up and fade away. Heaven will be filled with those who, though feeling the heat, did not fall by the way, but continued through the fire to the rest of God. It's difficult to feel honor in having your fire be especially hot, but you have the parable of the talents to teach you, and guide you. You also have the Spirit of God to guide you. Listen when you pray. Ask God if you can do this - and the answer will come to you and lift you up.



Unfortunately this is my life - things that are probably very obvious and shocking to those reading have been pounded in my head repeatedly as being normal. Drugs alone should be a deal breaker, but I've dealt with it so much that it is normal for me. I know my thread hasn't gotten alot of response given the time it's been posted, but I'd like some input on what I've said here. Am I wrong in my thinking, in my expectations? Is it better for my KIDS if we sep/D? I can take brutal honesty, but please read some of this thread so you know what I've dealt with before letting me have it. Thanks for your input.

I read your other thread - and waited. I wanted to let you get more comments from others. I hoped you would come more often, and vent a little bit on bad days.

Rhe feeling I get, is that you are a very private person. You make friends slowly, but you are loyal to a fault. Once you make a friend, you stick by them. It's difficult for you to let him go, you have never abandoned anyone.

Remember that doing what is best for him is not abandonment. If him being alone is what he needs, then you will be helping him, not hurting him. Don't be afraid of doing what is best.


BTW - I've read Lobe Busters, Falling in Love Stay in Love, His needs Her needs. All good books, but they really haven't helped our M. H and I have talked about them, but he's not going to read them. He wants the cliff notes. I can see that the Harley's principles would work with rational, consistent people - I'm not sure H is that.

If I understand correctly, Dr Halrey says that his methods won't help when there are other behavior problems, such as drug addiction, or alcohol addiction. I think your H probably falls under this disclaimer.

When the person is rational, and normal, meeting needs and avoiding LB's creates love. When they are participating on addictive behaviors, it just enables them. No matter what you do with our Marriage, I feel you should look at this part, and see if you can let him feel his consequences, and not provide him with cover to continue to get away with destructive behaviors.

You are a fine person, who wants to do what's right (as mentioned above.) Figuring out what is best, and doing that, is not failure. Failure is giving up, and not caring, but when you do the best you can with the situation are given, it is always success. Always. Who can do better than that?

I seldom advise people to D, or to remain married. What I suggest is that you find out what God wants, and then do it. He has provided the means to get that help. If you struggle with it, please talk about your feelings and your thoughts.

I have one more request. At first, you might not understand why.

Please read the book of Esther in the old Testament, and then come back and talk some more.

And believe in your self - that you will be refined, and purified into what God knows you can become.

SS

Smile........... Smile a really big smile, and believe in yourself. You were not sent here to fail, but to succeed.

SS I will do that today - thank you so much for your help. I read your response last night and was just without words. You have helped me so much and for that I'm so grateful. I did want to say that seperation is an option for me right now where it wasn't so much before. I've always thought that for me if I open that can of worms and I have to go through the process / embarassment of telling people why (not only what I've been through, but what I've done as well.) that I would not go back and could not go back into this M. My biggest fear is that people will think I'm crazy to have put up with it and that they will very strongly dislike H because of what he's done. I didn't want people to "not like" my H - especially my family. If my dd were to ever come to me and say that her H had treated her this way - I would come unglued. So in a way this fear that I have of telling people (mainly my parents and family)has been to protect H. I suppose it possibly enables him as well. That has always been a big hurdle that I have never really been able to cross. After the last week and what I've dealt with I am being pushed closer to crossing it.

Another thing - I haven't posted much lately because I don't want to complain. I am also hesitant about posting because I realize that the basis of this forum is infidelity. I had an EA and it's sometimes hard to say what you want to say AND be respectful towards BS's on the boards. It's also hard to see my experiences in my M put into words. When I compile my thoughts and experiences with H and type them out I'm pretty ashamed at what I've endured. In every area other area of my life I would not tolerate that kind of behavior, but yet I've been enduring that since the beginning of my R with H 19 years ago. I've never thought of myself as a door mat because I've always fiercely fought him on his behavior. I'd always hoped and believed in him and I know he is a good person. He has a good heart and that's what I've always seen. I'd hoped that some day that person would shine through and the bad would go away. I suppose I'd hoped that he would "grow up." He never has really.

I apologize that only have a few minutes right now but I will write more later today. Thank you so much, you have been more help than you can ever know. Sometimes an outside opinion can help so much to put things into perspective. Especially when that opinion comes from a person you respect - thanks SS.

I have many more thoughts already, based on the things you have said above. I think for most of it though, it may be best to wait until you finish your comments.

Don't be afraid to write. I think you may have felt attacked early on. I am sorry for that.

On your EA -
My personal feeling is that there is almost no way you could have prevented what happened, because you didn't know or understand what was happening until afterward.

You did the right thing, and ended it. With the state of your marriage, with the abuse you have endured, that speaks volumes about what kind of person you are. The question is not "did I make a mistake?" All of us make mistakes. The question is "what did I do with the mistake I made?"

I think you have done well in your own personal recovery. The things you say, the questions you ask, the way you have tried to make this work tell me you want to do what is right. This is a good thing.

Thoughts keep coming to me, but I feel to wait until you post more.

SS

Well - I'd hoped to post more tonight, but I need to get my thoughts together. My head is spinning and I'm at a bit of a curve in the road. I have reason to believe that H has been on a "binge" with rx pills. I could be wrong, but only time will tell. I made an appt. with an attorney on Friday to find out what my rights are. If it is yet again drugs that I'm dealing with my decision is made. I will not go through this again. I will not.

SS - thanks again for your post. Sorry to not be able to post more right now. I don't want to speak prematurely as to the drugs and will hopefully know more tonight or tomorrow. I would still like to know what you had to say based on this mornings post if you get a chance.

Do you know where H gets the pills?
Is there a way to cut that off?

I encourage you to contact the attorney, and know your rights. Decisions should always be made with full information available.

If I can get my work project finished, I will post more.
Working.....

SS

He gets them @ work - "factory drug dealer". No their is no way to cut that off. I guess for me, if I have to go to that extent to monitor my H - I don't want it. I've got 6 y.o. twins that are hard enough to deal with. I don't need a 36 year old H and this drama.

I have an appt. with an attorney and I will keep it. I've been going to do this since the inception of my H finding out about my EA. I just haven't done it. I know all of the lawyers in my town and am extremely embarassed to even go and tell them my story. From the outside looking in they would never guess it. By all accounts we are a "respectable couple." I guess all of this protecting worked huh?!? The attorney I have an appt with is in another town.

I am ashamed to even post this anonymously in cyberspace, but I will do so in hopes of some insight. I want to help H. He is a good person at heart - he is. He KNOWS what is right, he just doesn't chose the right path. Never in my life did I think I would be dealing with this @ this point in my life. Never. I don't want to burden you with my problems - I've always dealt with them myself. It is hard to put them out publically even if it is anonymously. I'll deal with them and I know that I'll be ok. Thank you also for your biblical references. I will turn to them. God is important in my life. I just want to do the right thing for everybody. Thanks again SS.

I detect an edge in your voice on this last post - but I can't place it. Something seems to be bothering you beyond what is going on with your H.

Or........ maybe it feels like the world is crashing down on you?

I don't want to burden you with my problems - I've always dealt with them myself. It is hard to put them out publically even if it is anonymously. I'll deal with them and I know that I'll be ok.

It's your choice as to what you do. Always.
HOWEVER - I wish you wouldn't feel you were burdening us. We can leave any time, and we can simply not post if we have a problem with any given poster. If we choose to help, it's because we care, and want to help.

I can't feel what you feel, and I can't see many of the normal signs that would tell me what's going on in your mind. (Expression, tone of voice etc.) I don't want you to loose this source if it is helping. What you posted almost sounded like a good bye.

Please come back and talk some more after you read the book of Esther. I am out of time tonight, but will post more tomorrow.

I want to address the "respectable couple" sfuff, and other things also.

I am glad God is important to you. Don't think he doesn't care, or that you don't deserve help. Often his timetable is different than ours, but he is there. This I know - from personal experience.

God be with you.

SS

Nahh SS - it's not goodbye. I'm just so tired of dealing with this. There has to be an end at some point right? How much can one person endure? I feel like I've done everything humanly possible to help him, to guide him to be a respectable moral person. He made the comment to me recently "when the going get tough, the tough get going." SS my whole R with him has been tough. Doesn't EVERYONE have a breaking point @ some time?

Upon my last post - I have further info to lead me to believe that it is most likely drugs again. Before I found this out, based on my suspician I was furious - done. If it was drugs I WAS NOT going to go through this again. When I determined that it was most likely drugs and I heard his sorrowful voice, my heart went out to him and I wanted to save / rescue him yet again. I don't understand why that is. He's done so much to me, why do I still want to save him? I guess that's the point I'm at. Ever since EA I've tried and struggled soo hard to bring myself back into this M. It hasn't happened and I'm pretty sure it never will.

I can sense your frustration with me SS. I am frustrated with myself. Why do I keep giving him chances? Why do I keep believing / hoping in him when he continually lets me down. I will read the book of Esther. Thanks for the suggestion. I will post an update if / when I get it. Thanks again for your help. BTW - today with this news, I did feel like the world was crashing down around me. My mind has been spinning and I"m not sure which way to turn, but I know that I need to protect firstly my kids, secondly myself. Thanks again for your input.