Here is ANOTHER letter from my WH.

Dear Believer -

Thankyou for talking with me last month at the house. I needed to know that our marriage was really dead. When I wanted to come back, over three and a half years ago, and I thought there still might be hope, I should have known from that first reaction it was over then.

I betrayed your trust, for which I will be eternally sorry. Please try and forgive me. I'm also sorry for not being the husband you deserve. I know I am an a**hole - but I still care about you, which makes me vulnerable. I really want to do the right and honorable thing.

God has convicted me of my sin and the consequences. I have paid some of those consequences already and I know there are more to come.

Please take care of yourself and never let Satan get a foothold in your life.

Love, Mr. Believer

He always sounds so sincere, but is still lying about living with the OW. Also I told him I would take him back when she was no longer in the picture.

I intend to remain in Plan B until the divorce, and after the divorce for that matter.

you know for sure shes stil in the picture?

Yep. He has been lying about them living together for 3 and a half years. He doesn't know it, but I know where they live, and they are still together.

Hi b,

Sorry your XH continues to try to draw things out. I received an unfortunate letter from my WW a couple of days ago. You know what they say, judge him by his actions; words are cheap.

I hope the best for you.

Is it me, or does this have the flavor of it somehow being your fault? You made him sure it was over, your reaction 3 1/2 years ago, yada yada yada...

I'm still trying to puzzle out the line about how loving you makes him vulnerable. Does it mean that somehow the vulnerability causes the affair or is it an open invitation for you to feed him some cake?

He says he wants to do the right and honorable thing. What's stopping him? Then he warns YOU to stay on the right path.

Maybe I'm getting a bit of MB burnout, but his letter just pisses me off.

Dobie

Hi believer - I don't know your story well, but I'm sorry for what is going on. I applaud you for hanging in there, ready to reconcile - it is a great testimony. God will bless your faithfulness, and what a wonderful inheritance you have in store. I am wondering, though, why you have not confronted your H about his living arraingements? His letter is a little out-there. God has convicted him, yet he remains in sin? Is he admitting to deliberate sin - by way of saying the marriage is dead (as if this is a reason to forsake what God has joined, because he deems it to be dead?). Is that like your H to just talk the talk? The letter sounds a little like he is stuck in a victimhood mentality. You are much more reserved than I am - maybe God has your tounge and my tounge is just more immature. If it were me, it seems like I would have said - You want to do the right and honorable thing? Then return to your marriage and be a spiritual leader and quit trying to cover and make excuses for your sin! Patience is a blessed thing. I have just said a prayer for you. I know how much it hurts to hear another believer claim things that are ungodly as being acceptable.

all my love
allforone

Plan B is smart Believer.

Here's my understanding of the purpose of his note to you ....

he's on a fishing expedition

his "bait" is pseudo-spirituality

such as ... " I really want to do the right and honorable thing. "

and "God has convicted me of my sin and the consequences. "

and ... " never let Satan get a foothold in your life."

He realizes you are a spiritual woman with a soft and generous heart ... and he's pushing those buttons hoping for a response .... why?

Because YOU have "something" he is NOT getting from Barbie-OW .... so, he's baiting & fishing ... trying to lure you in by appealing to your spiritual and helpful nature.

~~~~ Woe is ME! Please help me Believer ... I need to be more spiritual. Satan has a hold on me. Only you can guide me to doing the right and honorable thing.~~~

*gag*

Plan B his fishing expedition .... he thinks you're wanting to help fix him spiritually.

as if .... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Pep

believer

since he's been gone for so long, i'm wondering how long ago you gave your H the plan B letter?

if it's been awhile, maybe you should give it to him AGAIN so that he is aware of how you feel about reconciliation. Maybe he is trying to feel you out to see if you are still interested.

i wouldn't assume that he knows that you still feel as you did before. i would let him know.

just my opinion

They are nearly divorced Eav

that letter makes it sound as if he is having doubts doesn't it?

yeah

he's having doubts that Believer will continue to provide him some company and comfort that OW cannot

he's not offering to leave OW ... because he has yet to admit he's living with OW !!!!

LOL

Believer is no longer interested in reconciliation ... that's what she's said & as far as I know, she's not changed her mind <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pep

believer,

I have a few thoughts about this. If I understand the timeline here.....I'm wondering about whether a small change in strategy might be something to think about. Yanno chere....Plan A isn't the only thing that has a time frame....so does Plan B. (Harley recommends two years) There are some very good reasons for that.....and you're experienced and knowledgeable enough to know what they are. I've had discussions with professionals (and quite a few posters here too) about the kind of situation you're describing. After you've been in Plan B long enough for the biochemical high of attraction to wear off with the OP....and the WS starts trying to recontact you again....reaching out....testing the waters....what should you do? Is there a time where breaking contact is a good calculated risk?

I think there is. Mortarman has termed this period "semi-dark" which I think is rather descriptive. Obviously, you folks talked last month....so since contact has already been recently broken....you may be able to use any damage that may have been caused to your benefit.....the timing/oppportunity will coincide nicely with a "refreshing of your Plan B".

As one option....I think you might consider a response to this letter that goes something like this:

H,

You're mistaken about our marriage being dead, but forgiveness and reconciliation will never be possible while your affair is ongoing. I know you're still living with the OW. <This is how I know> (I want you to use radical honesty and be specific because revealing the "source" of your knowledgea this late in the game, has very little downside considering the length and entrenchment of this affair. Even if you lose your source....it may be time for you to move on with your own life free from the onus of "snooping" any longer. By itself....freedom from the burden of checking up on his lies is exhilarating. He needs to know that you are 100% certain of his ongoing affairs and lies.)

And he needs to know one other thing if you truly intend to remain in Plan B indefinitely: He needs to know it's NOT too late and that you still think love is "revivable". If it IS too late, you don't want to love him and ending the affair isn't going to change that....then it might not be healthy for you to remain in Plan B longer.

What is your goal <now> believer? Is it still to save your marriage? Is it to move on with your life? What does believer want?

i agree with starfish

decide what i t is that YOU want...and if you want to reconcile......some type of letter would let him know that

i would imagine that if he is thinking about ending things with OW and working on things with you...he would want to see a sign from you that it's a possibility before he makes any step to commit to leaving ow

i guess i believe that being alone is so hard...that even if he really WANTS to be with you....he will stay with OW if you won't take him back

and it seems that i've read many posts here that talk about marriages that are saved right about when the divorce is final because that's what it takes for the WS to see what they are losing

If I had a spouse/Xspouse still stuck in an affair, and did not want to reconcile with them down the road, I think I would still want to remain in Plan B forever.

The idea of any regular contact with a WS is ghastly-sounding, even if I were 'over' them and had no feelings left.

B, I'm with you all the way, whether you keep on movin on, or whether he ever shapes up to the point where you can see he means it, and decide to give it a try.

just my opinion...but i think this may be his saying that he is willing to reconcile....

I betrayed your trust, for which I will be eternally sorry. Please try and forgive me. I'm also sorry for not being the husband you deserve. I know I am an a**hole - but I still care about you, which makes me vulnerable. I really want to do the right and honorable thing.

and believer said this...

Also I told him I would take him back when she was no longer in the picture.



that's why i think that if Believer is still interested.... another Plan B letter that states her expectations might be a good idea

not_so,


If you saying you wouldn't want to have contact with that person forever....I agree....neither would I <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. When I say "ending Plan B" I don't mean have/or don't have contact (contact just becomes a non-issue at that point). You might, you might not (like you, I probably would not) but I would have the freedom not to worry about sabotaging a good marriage saving strategy if I did. I would have the freedom to truly detach....because at that point I would completely let go of any expectations. Plan B forever???? YIKES!! No closure? No dating? No filing? Ever?

Think I'd pass on that LOL. But I don't think that's what you meant. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

...but yet he tells you that he's sorry for betraying your trust?

Your WH sounds incredibly manipulative to me. That he continues to lie to you while professing his apoligies for doing so in the past must have a significant emotional impact on you. Do you think that you will ever be able to trust him again? If not, perhaps it's time to graduate from Plan B to Plan D...

Star*fish, lol you picky person you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> You're as bad as my mom for taking me exactly literally! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> You are so correct that I didn't mean limbo, just never bothering or feeling the need to speak to them ever again. NC for life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> You made me laugh.

MIM, the D has dragged on for quite some time, because he has refused to sign, trying instead to take away 'his' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> portion of Believer's inheritance, none of which is actually marital property. His greed is all that has stood between B and a life of freedom.

Plan A has a lifespan. How do we know when it's time to move out of Plan A?

Indications that it might be time to re-evaluate Plan A:

*Enough time has passed. Harley recommends three to six months.

*It's impossible to end conflict....all time spent together is spent fighting.

*To much damage is being done to the marriage or the BS.

*The WS is abusive (which includes things like cruelty, extreme lack of remorse etc).

*The betrayed spouse is too exhausted to continue....physically or emotionally.

*The betrayed spouse is losing all love for their spouse.

*The betrayed spouse is on the brink of divorce filing.

*One I think makes sense.....The WS and OP move in together.

When it's time to end Plan A.....you move to Plan B.

But does Plan B have a lifespan? And what comes after Plan B? Plan D?

Indications that it might be time to "consider" moving out of Plan B:

*Enough time has passed. The "attraction" phase of infatuation lasts 18 to 24 months. After that....the affair has moved into "attachment" and entrenchment so many of the benefits of Plan A and B are somewhat neutralized.

*If you have been successful at remaining TOTALLY dark for at least 6 months (the time it takes for the biochemistry of the affair to "peek")....and the WS is making repeated overatures to come back to the marriage.

*The WS has delayed filing divorce for over two years.

*The BS is ready to divorce after two years and is prepared to file independently.

*The BS is "stuck" in grief and can't EVER imagine forgiving the WS.

*The BS....after a year....still spends copious amounts of energy snooping, obsessing or reporting the actions of the WS and not enough time building self esteem or an independent life.

*The BS finds themselves feeling extremely victimized/depressed and the separation has not helped those feelings at all.

*The BS won't honor no contact.

*The WS won't honor no contact.

*The OP won't honor no contact.

There are more for both A and B....but these are some of the things that might encourage someone to re-evaluate what plan they're in....and what their goals are.

So, what comes AFTER Plan B?

*Ending this marriage saving strategy ends expectations, false hope etc. on both sides. It brings closure.

*"No contact" is no longer a "tool" to save a marriage....but a CHOICE. Some folks may want to resume contact to deal with child or financial issues directly.....others will never have contact again. It depends on whether the BS still feels they need that buffer of protection or not.

*There is Plan D of course.

*Some folks will do a short Plan A again, and then move to Plan D.

*There is Plan ME....which just means you're ready to jettison the past and start anew....not knowing where you want to go exactly.....only that you no longer have any desire to do with WS.

*Some folks will do a "semi-dark" strategy where they lay out the conditions for reconciliation again (refresher of Plan B)....wait a little longer and reassess or file.

*True detachment become possible.

*There is an opportunity to ethically date other people.

Just some stuff to think about.

not_so

hehehhehehe....yeah I'm a stinker....such a "mom" too LOL!
I'm with you as far as your opinion of believer's H....he doesn't deserve her.....I've been astounded more than once about his lies, selfishness and greed (when is it time to stop blaming that on "the fog" huh?). However, it's up to believer to decide her goal. And whether she wants to save her marriage....or she doesn't....I still think it's time to re-evaluate Plan B! Does that make sense?

Glad you laughed <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Who knows what would happen if he did all the work on his own, turning to God, fixing himself, etc., and then came to B as an honest man? I wouldn't want to bet either way, cuz I think I would stand a 50/50 chance of losing.

I really liked your post. You should put it on it's own thread - it was awesome!

(PS Stinker, lol. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />)