SW - if you choose to stay married to this man - correction - while you are deciding whether to stay married to him - explore the option of entering a post nuptial agreement.

It would be structured something like this > if either of you engage in infidelity that results in divorce, the betrayed spouse has first right of refusal for all jointly held marital property. All of it.

Whether he agrees to such a proposal may help make your decision to stay married to him.

In the meantime, don't acquire any jointly held assets. None. If he agrees, propose that EVERYTHING become jointly held.

In short, both of you put your money where your mouth is.

Will such a thing prevent future infidelity? Maybe not. But if he's as much of a jerk as he appears to be, he won't be able to resist another infidelity and you'll have some justice.

JMHO

I would say get proof that he cancelled the phone and ask him to give you the phone to trash. He will be tempted to call her at some vulnerable point. There were certain things that my FWH seemed to want to hold onto..just in case...




Get your own online access to the cellphone bill. You don't have to rely on him to print the bills out.

I continue to religiously check the cellphone bill with my H's understanding and knowledge.

This "meant to be" comment is nonsense. I hope you called him on it. Why is it nonsense? For one thing, because this is purely a romantic notion with no basis in principles or ethical decision-making .... which is why this "it was meant to be" phrase is so often said between adulterors !!!

It says nothing about his acquiring values that prohibit adultery in the future. If he can say "it was meant to be" going into the relationship, he can also say "it was not meant to be" on his way out.

It's a meaningless romantic phrase intended to woo you ... nothing more.

The admitting he was an idiot, is good. Because it is honest. However, it's not enough. What did he say to himself that gave him permission to screw you over, the woman he loves so much? Somehow, the inner-idiot inside of him got loose .... how? Under what circumstances might that happen again? These are the things you need to know in order to remain safe with him. He must prove to your satisfaction that he has actual insight into his own lousy choices .... not just nice-sounding flowery catch-phrases intended to soften you up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Next time he says "I love you" .... ask him what that loves does for you on a daily basis... "What will your love means as far as protecting me from future betrayal?"

Love expressed purely as an emotional state, serves the one saying it. It makes HIM feel great. Love only serves YOU, the object of his affection, if it is expressed as loving behaviors. Men who physically abuse their wives always say they love their wives. See what I mean?

If he is loving you in an immature fashion, it is all about how he feels at the moment.

If, it turns out, he is capable of a deeper more mature love, he will not allow himself to screw you over when he is not feeling "in love" with you.

I don't think he has proven himself (yet) capable of that mature love .... "meant to be" is a very immature level of committment, subject to changes in emotional weather!

Best of luck making your decision

Pep

Thanks for the continued advice. Getting some "tough love" here that I think I need.

Worthatry, that's a fair notion about the post-nup. And a chance for him to put his money where his mouth is. His reaction to the suggestion ought to be telling in itself.

Pep, he often says himself that "It's easy to say I love you, but I'm going to demonstrate it." He DOES go above and beyond in doing things for us (working on the house and cars, relieving me of many onerous tasks and he's always careful and considerate of my feelings in everything else.) He's the sort of "nice guy" that mothers love and believe me in a million years I'd never have envisioned him as a player.

He says he was trying to be something he was not (i.e. the "swinging bachelor") and it was flattering to have more than one woman wanting him at once. Growing up he was somewhat of a awkward intellectual geek who girls ignored or mocked, well he has "blossomed" mid-life into a very attractive and successful guy and admitted he enjoyed testing the waters once he conquered a lifelong hurdle with shyness.

Self-esteem issues are clearly at work here. And yes, there are times it seems his behavior is rooted in teenage years and that he is emotionally naive. I share all this not to excuse his actions but in the thought that it probably has shaped him in the present to some extent.

The fact that he came up with the idea of the NC letter to the OW on his own gives me hope that he is willing to go the extra mile to fix the damage done.

To counter his naivety I'm afraid I'm somewhat of a cynical person who tends to believe the worst of people and expect negative outcomes, so I'm never truly shocked when I find I've been betrayed again. Having low or no expectations assures less heartache in the end.

I wish things could have started off differently but from this point there is no place to go but up.

Philosophically,

~Silverwraith

He`s in his 40`s and he did this BEFORE the M?

It`s understandable why members here assumed that you two were in your early 20`s because your H`s behaviour is VERY immature.

If I were you I would rethink trying to recover this M. These are very unsual circumstances, your H`s age and the fact he did this BEFORE your M are neon indicator`s that something is seriously off with your H. Grown men are not usually this self centered. Your garden variety male WS has least has the "excuses" "my needs were not being met, I was bored, I was having a middle aged crisis blah blah blah..."

You H cannot use any of these excuses. This was entirely about him. Selfish to the max and extremely cruel to both you and the OW. This how teenaged boys behave. Not grown men.

I don`t think this man should be wasting anymore of your time. Cut him loose and go find yourself someone who can act his age.

I am sorry this happend to you.

If he is in his 40`s and still behaving like this there are some serious personal issues that need to be resolved. If you want to give him a second chance I would set a boundary that he must seek some personal counselling for himself. I don`t think this is about your relationship with him at all because he pulled this stunt before you were even married. This is all about him, his sense of entitlement and his poor coping skills. He needs some professional one on one help.

And if you do not want to stick around you are not obliged to either. Think of your own wellbeing first.

Daisy37, excellent points. He suggested joint MC but I agree that it's not just about us as a couple, but what each of us brings into it in the form of serious baggage.

Ironically, it is my chronic inability to trust that led to my discovery of the A, perhaps if I'd kept on those rose-colored glasses as so many advise I would still be in 7th heaven today.

As it is, I'm pretty soured on men and marriage to say the least and even if I cut him loose I'd prefer to stay single from now on.

Just a confirmation of that maxim I've always heard, "If it sounds (looks) too good to be true, it probably is."

And I guess my odds of finding an honest trustworthy man at this age were indeed the same as being hit by lightning.

Ah well, live and learn. Again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

~Silverwraith

My current SO did. ZAP!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
WAT
------------------
Ignoranus - being both a jerk AND and [censored].

I think it's worth remembering that no one can never trust another person 100%. We are all vulnerable, albeit some much more than others, to being betrayed in one way or another. The fact that your husband is treating you with love and respect is a very good sign. These days, I just go by how I feel. If I feel loved and cared for, then I have the confidence and peace of mind to get on with things.

My husband had an affair before our marriage (and worse, it continued afterwards!) and we are still together. We talk a lot and in an odd way we are closer than ever. One thing that I'm thinking about it a recomittment ceremony in a year or so if we're still on track. Our wedding day is now tinged with sadness and I'd like to have a happy memory surrounding our union to look back on. Even if it's just a private affair, with the pair of us and a minister on a beach somewhere. Anyway, maybe you'd think of renewing your vows down the line, too.

Stick with your gut. If you love him and he makes you feel good then do everything you can to help the marriage succeed. At least then, you can't say you didn't try... Good luck!

Thanks bronwyn...it helps to have a balanced counterpoint because I can very easily spiral into negative thoughts and actions (as evidenced above - heh)

With the exception of this issue things have been really good between us and in the marriage, but this one incident seems to have a lot of "poison potential" because I find myself obsessing about it and forgetting all the GOOD things he's done and is doing for me/us each day.

It's strange how it only takes one ugly incident to cancel out so many good ones, and it seems to take so many good acts to atone for one bad act...similar to an example of how we might have a day at work dealing with 99 wonderful customers, and 1 rude one...for some reason it's just the rude jerk we remember when we go home. Or is that only the case with us pessimists? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I like the idea of a recommitment ceremony if we get to the point of being healed enough to make it worthwhile. Meanwhile, counseling for all concerned...

~Silverwraith

This is my second M and in my first M I was also cheated on. We had no children and so the choice to D was a no brainer.

I was more cynical the second time around but unfortunately I had not done some personal work on myself and so I again ignored the warning signs. And as I was witnessing the trainwreck of my M in the making I had no plan, no coping skills to prevent the wreck.

But I do now. This will not happen to me again. That is the beauty of growing older, the wisdom you gain.

I remain cynical enough to believe that all M`s at some point or another will experience some form of infidelity. Either full blown exposed PA`s that almost destroy the M, or secret ONS`s that remain hidden forever. And then you have the EA which most people do not understand are in fact bonefide infidelity. I do not believe that any M that lasts more than a few years will escape at least some form of adultery.

That said however I don`t think it will destroy every M. In some cases recovery can improve the M. But much of that depends on the circumstances and the personal character of the two parties involved. If the two parties are able to address their shortcomings and learn some new coping skills then your life can actually improve overall.

I do think there are mature emotionally stable single men of our age out there. Men who are either of very high ethical moral standarss to begin with or men who have already tried infidelity in a previous relationship and figured out that it`s an ineffective destructive path to resolve personal issues. Those men are out there.

But you have to be choosey and hold out for the right one. IMHO your best bet are widowers....men who were happily married and who loved their late spouses. Those men are usually on the lookout for another satisfying relationship. If a man has been happily married once before then they will want to be again. Those men are usually snapped right up.

Then you have men who have been divorced. Some of those men can be very good catches too but you have to delve into their past. Why did they get divorced?

There is a lot to be said for remaining single too. When my grandmother D`d my abusive alcoholic grandfather after 30 years marriage she vowed to never marry again. And she didn`t. But she always had her pick of gentlemen callers right up till the day that she died at age 79. Her callers courted her, treated her respectfully or they got cut loose. She had a great life and never again had to wash some man`s underwear or clean up after him. She enjoyed her life to the hilt.

My H`s grandmother was widowed at age 65 and she just turned 80. She has also had her share of gentlemen callers and has been known to dump them when they fail to please. And she has said she will never remarry either. She`s never home. She`s out and about enjoying herself.

It doesn`t matter how old you are....if you have a joie de vivre and like male company the men will find you.

Don`t settle. Set standards for what you are looking for in a relationship/male companion and stick to them. And when a man doesn`t treat you right....kick him to the curb and wait for the next one.

You do not have children to worry about therefore you are free as a bird. Your happiness does not depend on what other people do....it depends solely on the choices that YOU make.

You`re not stuck with this man and you have to ask yourself is he really worth the effort all things considered?

Daisy37,

You've given a lot of food for thought. Before H came along I briefly dated a young widower, whose wife tragically died at age 26, but it was clear that even after more than a decade he was still not over her. That was one of those "competing with the perfect deceased spouse" situations where nobody wins. I gracefully bowed out before things got serious.

Unfortunately one of the biggest hurdles to repairing this current M is me. I don't think my own personality (artistic, creative, temperamental) is helping this current situation. H says that is one of the things he loves about me, that I am highly creative and "unique", but I fear the creativity comes at great cost. I think I am moodier and more difficult than many women, even on AD.

Going to try MC for the first time today, hope it points a path to recovery that I can't seem to find right now - it's buried in the tangled undergrowth of terrible pain.

~Silverwraith

Is this something that a man has told you? I would be wary of that...

I think some moodiness would understandable after havng been cheated on. And some men will say things like that in an attempt to shift blame, to lower your self confidence and to keep you with them.

My XBIL used to say stuff like to my sister. "You are such a moody difficult person...you`re lucky I put up with it....not many men would..."

If this was ever said to you by a man you were in a relationship with...consider the source...and consider the circumstances.

Yes it's been said before but it's also true. I can switch moods on a dime. Lately if something triggers a memory of the A or all the lies I go from sweet to snarling in seconds.

I've worked hard on being pleasant and in control but sometimes I just lose it. I know H picks his words very carefully now because I will seize on the slightest thing and go for the jugular. I know it's wrong, it's destructive and won't lead to any healing. I just don't know how to stop it when the beast takes over.

For weeks I did great at biting my tongue, letting nasty comments die on the vine before they left my lips, but the last few days I've regressed. I think he's reached the limit of endurance, he said as much last night, which hit me hard emotionally. Here's a guy who never gave up on anything in his life, ready to give up on me.

I neglected to update here that he did cancel the cell phone as promised, and the NC letter will follow. I know these things should make me feel better but I had to go to such lengths and suffer so to reach this point, that it's almost anticlimatic now. I alternate between pure rage and utter numbness.

As for my self-confidence and self-esteem, can't get any lower. Some other recent incidents have really taken their toll. Debating whether to ask for advice on those or not.

Most days I just want to stay in bed with the covers over my head. I can't because of work of course, but unfortunately it's a slow time at work which leaves me too much time for brooding (I'm someone who functions better when busy/occupied at work.) Instead I am often worked up into an emotional froth by the time I get home again.

~Silverwraith

I was married once before too and my first H also cheated on me. I also had issues growing up and so I felt angry and on edge most of my life as well.

I found most of my anger was rooted in feeling powerless. I felt like my life was always being run according to other people`s agendas. My happiness always seemed to depend on what other people did or did not do.

So I was always pissed off at someone for something.

And then during recovery for my present M I heard about the Boundary book by Clouds and Townsend. I liked it so much that I eventually took the boundaries course. I am not a religious person and the book is written from a religious perspective but I found it enlightening nonetheless.

It changed my life. It gave me back my power which GREATLY lessend my overall anger and moodiness.

Of course people and situations still regularily tick me off. but now I know how to handle it. I also have more realistic expectations of people and situations.

You cannot control what your H does. But you can control how you react to it. The same goes for your family members, your co-workers, your friends ect. You have all the power. Once you figure out how to exercise your power your anger and moodiness will lessen.

Do you know how happy functional people deal with situations that cross their boundaries? They walk away.

Whether you want to repair your relationship or not...you need to learn about setting boundaries and respecting boundaries. That`s a key skill and it will help you.

If you do read the book or are interested in it you can post queries about it here. Many members have already read it and swear by it.

Thank you, Daisy.

That makes sense (about the power issue). I really appreciate the assistance and will definitely track down that book.

~Silverwraith

Just checking in on you, Silverwraith...