So your recommendtion is "end it today, or we divorce tomorrow."

Do I have that right?

And what occurred in your case?

WAT

Peter,

I also believe that the "soulmate" thing is a bunch of malarkie.

Unfortunately. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

When I hear you use that term, it does say how much your W means to you. But there is nothing mystical or other-worldly about your relationship with your W.

When I was a little girl, I was very close to my brother. We lived in the country, and he was my only playmate for many years. When I heard the term "soulmate" to describe romantic relationships, I didn't understand. I thought my brother was my soulmate because we were so close and did everything together. I could tell him anything, and loved being with him more than anyone else in the world.

My brother and I barely have a relationship anymore.

Feeling highly connected to a person takes energy and work in order to endure that feeling of closeness. It's not mystical or magical, it's a choice.

I thought OM was my "soulmate". Now I know what utter bullcrap that was, and I am very realistic about the real intimacy I have in my M now, and how I have to continue to work on myself in order to maintain that intimacy.

The same goes for my H as well....

Agreed. Setting up boundries is very important. Being someones doormat get you trampled on.

Wow, another one.

How long you guys think a WS gets to straighten up?

Do you use a calendar or a stop watch?

WAT

I used a calendar for far too long....far too long and was a doormat in the process... should have used a stop watch... it would have benefitted all of us. And my ex said she would have responded better to boundries rather than my letting her figure it out while waiting for her to stop hurting her child and me.

Why WAT... how long do you think they should have to come around?

This is quote from Melodylane earlier in this thread.. I could not agree more...

A key ingredient for a BS in plan A is learning from mistakes that they've made that might have inadvertently enabled the A 2 happen. One of those "mistakes" is the belief that one's spouse is their soulmate, because such a belief leads 2 blind trust and fairyland views of the fu2re. Affairs just don't happen in fairyland, so when they happen in real life that was mistakenly viewed as a fairy tale life, it takes a while for the BS' head 2 stop spinning so they can think clearly.

And since the ultimate goal of recovery (not necessarily reconciliation) is 2 have no regrets looking back, then "you promised!" and "I'm leaving" kinds of statements, though perhaps reasonable, aren't necessarily the best one could make.

-ol' 2long

and sitting back and watching you spouse screw someone else while making a mockery of your family might also be the worst thing someone could do.

A BS does not have any part in the A happening.. they most certainly have a part in the M having issues... but the decision to rutt like pigs is entirely on the WS.

Did you watch?

I didn't.

if you want to be rude... speak to someone else.

I think it's unrealistic to expect it immediately.

The sense I got from you and IHadEnough was that you throw down the gauntlet and expect immediate results.

Sounds like one's pride is more valuable than one's marriage and being right is more important than staying married.

What happened to "in good times and in bad"?

Until I see an approach that works better than a well implemented Plan A/Plan B, I'll advocate for the MB method with time limits dictated by the cimcumstances of each case.

WAT

I think time limits are okay... but are time limits not demands??? I think time limits are fine..but no more than a person is capable of handling in as healthy a fashion as possible.
The gauntlet should be thrown down... exposure should happen and the spouse should know that they cannot go back and forth between lovers... a decision needs to be made by the WS.

Peter,

Permit me to take another crack at a few things and also explain to you the "proper" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> time keeping device.

First, you must understand that boundaries are yours to set and keep and she needs to know what yours are as soon as you figure that out yourself.

Second, the PROCESS used in marriage builders is just that a process. You start with plan A. It has many purposes some of which I will probably forget to mention but they are:

1. to show the WS that you do see flaws in your past approach and that you will and are working to be a better spouse.

2. Show the WS that you are willing to work on the marriage WITH them if they so choose.

3. That you do love them and value the marriage and that you are willing to go the extra mile to rebuild the marriage.

4. That you are learning and studying things to make the marriage better.

5. That you WILL seek help in saving the marriage and you will seek it from your family, her family, work, church, where you feel you can obtain support and help to save the marriage. This is called...EXPOSURE. It should be done but done with the goal of asking for help from these people in saving the marriage.

6. You establish boundaries and yes you can state that having OM in the middle of the marriage is NOT acceptable to you.

Now plan B is really an extension of plan A. The plan B letter is a love letter. It simply states that you are ceasing contact with WS so as to slow the drain of love you have for WS. It is not to punish, it is to preserve. The presence of the OP drains your love rapidly, so it is necessary for the OP to be out of the picture before renewing contact and interaction with the WS.

All of these steps are taken in love. They are to show and preserve love while trying to save the marriage. When do you go from plan A to plan B, when you feel the love you have for her leaving, when you have a hard time not LB'ing her. How long do you stay in plan B? Until you decide you have had enough and the love is gone (yes you will continue to lose love for her in plan B) OR she ends the affair.

If she decides to end the affair there are still two decisions to be made. One YOU have to decide if you still want to try and rebuild the marriage, AND two she has to make the same decision.

In the end, you will either be working on recovery, or divorced. However, in both situations you will KNOW you have done ALL you could to save the marriage and show her the kind of man you are. Right now that seems little consolation, but if your marriage ends in divorce as it might, you will come to realize that you will be very proud of the effort you put into it.

So what time piece do you use? You use your heart attached to your brain. You will KNOW when it is time to let go. You will feel it, you will know it, it will hurt, and YOU WILL DO IT...because you have to.

So don't worry about these decisions yet. You need to address plan A, and start to prepare for plan B. Most affairs do not end because of plan A. Plan A just plants seeds that grow and show the WS that the justifications used to start the A are in fact false.

Remember this is a process and the steps are clear, concise, and do work.

Please read more and think about this.

God Bless,

JL

MEDC - Have you been successful in making people (adults) do things in the past?

But I agree that all BSs have a limit. This is why Plan B exists. A problem does crop up, though, when the BS is at their limit and the WS is still under the same roof. Can't make 'em move out without legal action, which may require filing for divorce.

But I think a BS with a very short endurance places either too low a value on their marriage or too high a value on them selves - or needs to boost their self esteem by being "right".

JMHO

WAT

Could it also be because they are not able to handle the emotional assault that the A inflicts on a M? I think you are being a bit too judgemental and condecending about the motivations of BS that set little endurance.



Only when I was a cop! But as a partner.. if I had exercised more control over appropriate boundries... I would have gotten better results... even if it was just in protecting my som and me.

Obviously, weathering the emotional assult is the challenge. Many BSs - me included - go into crisis depression. I was referring to the degree of endurance vs value placed on the marriage as in very short degree - expecting immediate results. I think that BSs who really value their marriages find the strength to endure for a while. This is of course variable from BS to BS and probably is dependent on what's invested in the marriage - time, children, etc.

Fine.

WAT

You've got 2 be kidding me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I responded 2 this, from you:


Hang limp, people

-ol' 2long

Certainly. And the marriage contract and most people's religious beliefs would permit them 2 get away rather than 'handle' the assault.

But, though I wouldn't necessarily advocate the patience of Job in cases of infidelity, I've most definitely found it 2 be true that it's much better 2 work through the pain than 2 try 2 circumnavigate it.

Life is hard. Taking the bull by the horns is hard. ...but it can also be fun. Responsibility is liberating.

-ol' 2long

I am very passionate about my wife and about our marriage. I am willing to fight for this for a long while still. I have been going through this for 5 months so far and I still feel like I have a lot left. It's not that I don't have days where I feel like I just want to give up because it hurts too much. There are still days like that, but fewer and fewer. The reason I say this is because things are getting better. My wife is realizing that I can't get out of this unless she cuts off contact with OM, and she has told me that she is committed to our marriage. We have talked about making things better in our marriage between us, and there are things that we both need to work on. But we are both determined to make this work. For ourselves and for our kids.


The fact that she has left her job and is now working on the other side of the city with little chance of seeing OM is also helping. Not that I don't still wonder and keep an eye out for the possibility of her going to see him at work. I do. I will not let myself be hurt again so easily.

I am hoping that she will eventually feel comfortable to come here and post herself, and I do believe that it will do her a world of good to get support and understanding from other FWW and BS's. She is trying to figure it all out in her head right now, and I don't think you figure out something like this on your own.

My wife has done a lot for me since this happened to try and help me. We have gone on a few trips together, and she tells me daily how much she loves me. I know a lot of you are skeptical of her and her motives, but she really is a good person. She has a weakness that she must fix for our marriage to be successful, and she knows it. It is just getting to that point now will take time. I think boundaries are great, and we have talked about her flirting and joking around with guys at work. She has stopped doing this as far as I know. And I know that I will probably get called on this again as far as trusting her word, but where do you start. The trust has to start to grow somewhere. You have to take that first step, no matter how scary it is, and trust is blind. It is having the faith in another person to always have your best interests at heart, and a marriage won't work without it. So I am starting to let that trust build, little by little. If it gets knocked down again, then it takes longer to build up the next time, and I have told her that as far as telling me the truth about everything, no matter how hurtful it is. I have learned from this that no matter how much the truth hurts, it is way better than deceit.

I am trying to be as supportive to her as I can, while still not backing down from the NC. She still is in a bit of a fog as far as wanting to be friends with this man. I've told her that maybe she could be just friends with him, but it is too dangerous a situation for me. It would always be a reminder of what happened, and if it happened once, why wouldn't it happen again if she remains friends. She stills thinks that she could control it, but she didn't realize the first time she couldn't control it until it was to late. I'm sure in time that the pain of hearing a certain song, or going to the gym she worked at will die, but for now it's all still very fresh.

Is there anyone out there, or has anyone heard of an instance where the WS and the OM have remained platonic friends after the A ended? I'm just wondering because we have some friends who had a similar situation a few years ago and she has remained friends with the OM after. The difference is that her and her husband were both friends with this guy before, and they both are still friends with him.

Thanks JL for that post. It did clear up some things for me. I couldn't agree more that Plan A is a process, and it is different for everyone. I think that everyone has different ideas of when the best "Time" is, and that is what works for that person. In my situation, before I even found MB, I was putting my own version of Plan A into effect. I was trying to be understanding to my wife, showing her what a great guy I am, and also trying to show that I can change and work on things that need working on. As a surprise to her, I even signed us up for dance lessons, and she loves to dance as much as I have always disliked it. But I was willing to make the compromise. Just a small example of things that I have been trying. I also told her right from the beginning that I never want her to see this man again. However, that wasn't possible at the time because of the work situation, so I compromised on that. In retrospect, I don't know if I would do the same thing again, but it does no good now to look back.

I am following my heart and mind in my thoughts and actions. I wouldn't be myself if I didn't allow feelings to play a part, and just made tough, ruthless decisions. If it ever came to it, I know I have the strength to make the right choice, but I don't think it will ever come to that.

Oh Peter,

I know you want to trust your W.

You want to trust her so badly.

You need to realize though... PLEASE realize... that no matter how much your W is trying, she is addicted to this man.

Like alcoholics are addicted to alcohol.

While else would she be so disrespectful to you and your feelings when you request NC?

She tries to appease you in other ways, by leaving her job, promising she won't flirt with other men, etc.

I believe she has good intentions, but she really can't control herself.

She can NOT be friends with OM. Read Shirley Glass' book. You and she need to write a NC letter (or make a no contact phone call together) in order for you both to heal and grow. You should also go to MC.

I know that you are asking us if you think she can really just be friends with OM because you have friends who were in a similar situation. Can I ask you the same question?

Can your W be friends with OM while she is married to you? Are you really comfortable with that, Peter?