Dear Ladies,

This is a difficult post to write, but I feel convicted to do so... after prayer and discussions with my H.

Perhaps you have read the recent threads about affair marriages on the main boards. I have, with interest.

My credo, my personal belief, is to "Do No Harm" whenever possible. I have at times, like most of us, harmed others, and have made amends whenever possible. Heck, I make amends sometimes even when it *isn't* my fault. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> The thing is: Harm comes covertly sometimes... not on purpose... and I have to accept the consequences of my prior choices and how they might affect people healing NOW.

My story is seriously all over these boards, and if you know it already you can skip this paragraph. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I met my H while both of us were separated, living apart from our prior spouses, divorces filed, and our prior spouses were with others (his was living with her OM in their marital home). As I've said many, many, many times before, this is something I have had to make peace with -- the idea that my marriage is an "affair marriage."

While the threads going on right now have nothing to do with me personally, they do hit a chord for me, obviously. Last night, several threads began about the harm that having affair marriages on this site bring to the majority who post here.

I had been praying about this for the last three days, because I could sense the tenor of the board. The threads right now are a response to what's been going on for some time, lately. This morning I made my final decision about what is best for me to do -- as I say, with a lot of prayer and the advice of my H.

I cannot be the person to lead this study.

I will be reading along, but God has someone else in mind to lead. Is it you? Please pray about this.

Ladies, I apologize sincerely to you... I should have prayed harder when I had the idea to do this... I pray that my decision does not discourage any one of you to begin the study in earnest.

God bless each of you... and I pray that you and your H's will be blessed by what you read and learn in Stormie's book.

NB,

I read your post in great sadness. I'm glad to see that you're going to follow along though & give your thoughts. It is your decision, & since you've prayed about it, I'm assuming you have made the right choice for YOU. If no one else volunteers, I would like to step up to the challenge of leading the study. I read this book when my H first came home & it has worked wonders in my attitude & my H's. Heck, my H changed w/o me having to ASK that it be done! And I have grown so much from it. From really understanding how I'm supposed to pray for my H. It opened my eyes to things I'd never looked at that way before.

I'll be back later w/my thoughts on Chapter One. Has anyone actually received their copy yet for those that have ordered them?

ST,

((((((((((hugs)))))))))) and THANK YOU!

One thing that stuck out for me in the Introduction was in the last paragraph.

Above all, don't give place to impatience. Seeing answers to your prayers can take time, especially if your marriage is deeply wounded or strained. Be patient to persevere & wait for God to heal.

It is so hard to do that -- wait on God to heal. We are in such a rush to have things done & done now. We want to stop hurting now, we want answers now, we want everything now! It also says

Don't worry about how it will happen .

That's a mighty big statement as well. Leaving it in God's hands is very difficult. We pray & then we keep looking for the answer -- Is it working yet? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> We have to realize that God's ways are not OUR ways. This is so important. He has things planned in His OWN time. He works the way HE wants to work. He accomplishes things the way HE thinks they should be accomplished. We keep taking it back. We keep looking for that answer when all we have to do is live & wait for the answer to come. And it WILL come, but we need to be patient. How many here suffer from this? I know I'm one. I can be very patient in other areas of my life, however, my M I struggle w/that. Anyone know why that is??

I haven't received my copy yet. Book mail can sometimes be very slow, but I do hope it will arrive this week. (I'm reading One Up On Wall Street in the meantime, which is a nice break from the hard work of the other books I'm reading. Yes, I just said that. A book about finances, corporate strength, and investing is a nice break from books about spiritual improvement! I am, truly, a geek...)

Until I receive my copy and start reading, I think I'll sit back a bit and listen. My responses so far have been based on previous experience with Christianity, and I want to give this a fair and open chance at whatever change or growth it may provide to me.

NB,

I also read your post with sadness. It would be great if you do stay and you do talk this over with us. I have not read your history. I do believe that all of us make mistakes and sin and that no one person is better than any other person. We all have consequences regarding our individual sins and if we can help each other out by the lessons we've learned than I believe that is great.

Please go through this with us.


ST- Thank you for taking up the lead in this.

ST

I'm laughing over here because this is exactly what I keep doing. I keep wanting to push things so that we can deal with them, have it done and then move on.

When you come up with "how we can do this all the time" let me know. I have to constantly work on this one, constantly check my motives at the door or with God. And it has been when I have been at my weakest point in all of this and I give up trying to push it my way that I see, feel things moving in my marriage.

One thing a very wise friend of mine told me is that while I am waiting God may be working on the other person and getting them to where they need to be. I have seen this happen with my spouse time and time again, it has taken him several years to get where God needed him to be and I believe God has used my pain and the things I was going through to help my husband see what he needed to see.

bjs - thank you for your post - I'm glad to hear that it takes time - but that you have that peace - that it takes time. Of course I want everything better NOW <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I know for me some things that have happened - I don't think that *I* can forgive on my own - it's going to have to come from God. I definately need help getting over unforgiveness, bitternes, resentment, anger for the things dh has done to me. So that's what I'm praying about today or trying to. Just reading through the prayer at the end of chapter 1 - it's more like "help me actually mean this".

Hi Ladies,

Actually, I also wrote a thread, with a bit of my history, over on GQ. Click HERE if you'd like to read it.

I did pray about this... and really, it came like a bolt of lightening first... I was all ready to do it, and then *wham* it came to my heart and mind that I am not the right person to do this, at least not at MB. I know God has forgiven me of my sin, and I have even forgiven myself (*that* took a long time)... but too many on our boards are hurting enough already and get re-injured all over again reading stuff from people like me.

Anyway, I will be around... and will write when I feel moved to do so (like NOW <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).

NB-

Oh PLEASE don't let this thread fall apart. I can't stop reading this book. It's amazing.

I can agree with the wanting things in my marriage fixed QUICK, but in reading this book I am finding such a sense of peace that I no longer feel that. I do not doubt my God one little bit.

NB, can't we just approach this as a prayer group??? Like she suggests having in the book?? I am not all that close knit with the people in my church...I'm pretty new, but they're all much older, and I would feel so much more comfortable having my friends here at MB be my prayer group. Maybe we could even do something Instant messenger.

I mean you started this thread NB, and I believe that if you've asked the Lord for forgiveness, then surely he has granted it. How can anyone hold something against you that God himself has forgiven?

I will admit that I can't read this book one day at a time like I should. I am 1/2 way through it. I just love it. And it's from the library. I have to look on Amazon and see if I can't find one cheap there, because this is something I want to read and re-read.

I believe that with God all things are possible. I have finally given my marriage to him. And I feel as though the weight of the world has been lifted from my shoulders.

I still pray nightly that God will enable me to forgive the OW. But I think I get confused between having forgiven her and trusting her. Surely I shouldn't trust her......so I have a little trouble in this area. I need to pray for her as well I believe.

My husband does believe in God, and he's been baptized, but he's certainly a long way from following God's word, even before the A.

I will tell you that I am praying nightly to understand what my H is going through, to be able to see things from his perspective, so when the time comes I will be able to be helpful to him.

I am in "SHUT UP AND PRAY" mode, and I pray A LOT!!! I know that I've been praying every bit of an hour a night before I go to sleep.....it helps SO much, I am able to sleep like a baby.

I literally FEEL God's presence when I'm praying....it's the most wonderful thing I've ever felt. I can feel the healing within me already, just letting go, and I feel so much better about everything in my life. I know that he has a plan for me, and I feel very strongly that this doesn't include divorce.

I believe that the man should be the head of the household and the wife should be the heart.

Thank you SOOOOOOOO Much for starting this thread NB!!! It's done more for me than I can tell you. I truly believe that you were meant to start this thread NB, and that I was meant to see it. Praying in this fashion has done more than any counselor or anti-depressant every has. I feel joy for the first time in a long time.

I'm starting to tear up just typing this....tears of joy.

Don't be so hard on yourself, keep praying about it NB, but I believe that God led you to begin this thread.

God Bless You,

-Caren

The worst thing Jesus ever said to a sinner waa "Go and sin no more". I think you have since kept to that as far as MB principles, haven't you? Much as I respect and follow DR. Bill, MB is not above God. So that puts us all on a level field - common or garden sinners.


BTW
I run a group for marriage problems that is 1,000 strong - some of us would enjoy doing a study like this in the group and some of them would hate us doing it. - lol

If you think you think you could take us on, and really don't wish to do the study here, I would be honored to have you lead those whom are intersted in our group, in a study.

Linda

nb - please forgive my intrusion into your women's thread. I thought I'd read a little of your study in case I decide to take you up on your suggestion about doing a study on the Power of a Praying Husband. I have read JustJ's comments and there is just one point that I wanted to address, but if you'd prefer to not have a "husband and a man's" perspective please say so. I will take no offense and will remove the post so as not to unduly intrude upon your discussion.


JustJ, I read your comments about "male domination" and from a secular standpoint, I think you are correct. You are also correct in that some "religions" of the world, most notably today the Muslim religion, have a twisted, imho, view of women and wives. But the "difference" you are perhaps struggling with is the "Christian" roles of husbands and wives. The reason is that those roles are "defined" by God, not by men or women. Men and women "corrupt" God's design and misuse the roles, and that results in sin. I understand that this may be a "foreign concept" to you, because it takes TWO people, the husband and wife, living in humble submission to God, for it to "work" as God intended. We do not have to "like," from a strictly human standpoint, what God may command, but Christians are nonetheless required to submit their will to God's will when they are in "conflict."

What you said that led me to comment was this following sentence in your post:



One must go back to the Garden of Eden and the Fall to get not only the intent of God's command to husbands and wives, but to understand part of the reason as to why this is so and how "sin entered the world."

While I cannot say with certainty that the following is true, it seems to make sense when considering the "real world" and the real differences between men and women.

God created Eve to be Adam's helpmeet. God did so only after letting Adam be alone and finding out that the company of all the animals was "not enough." Animals are not created in God's image, "Man" is. So God created Eve to be Adam's partner, his helpmeet, his "equal" in being created in God's image. Eve was created by God from a part of Adam, so that she would BE a part of him, separate, but equally the same in spirit, worth, value, etc. She would be "different" than Adam to fulfill the needs that Adam could not find in the animals. While Adam was most assuredly a "logical male," giving names to all the animals, etc., Eve was created with the emotional makeup of a woman, different, yet complementary and NEEDED by Adam.

Then along came Satan.

Who did Satan tempt? He went "after" Eve. Why? I don't know for certain, but I believe that one of the reasons may well have been because she reacted more on emotions than on logic. It has been often said that we should be very careful of our emotions because they can lie to us and cause us to "justify" sin. It appears to have been the same with Eve. She believed the lie of Satan (he only told her part of the truth) that gaining the knowledge of good and evil was a desirous and "good thing" because she would be more "like God." That is the trap that many of us fall into. Being "more like God" is not the goal. Being surrendered to God's will is the goal, regardless of how we might feel.

Still, Eve disobeyed God, and dumb 'ol Adam followed right along with his beautiful wife, and sin entered the world through disobedience.

After that, as God put Adam and Eve out of the Garden, He assigned roles to them. Whether we like the roles or not, they were ordained by God. They affect the ROLES, not the substance of each other. They, in performing those roles, rely on humble obedience to God and sacrificial love toward each other. Get either of those two out of balance, and the roles become corrupted.

In that respect, much of what we are dealing with today can be traced back to the 60's (which I lived through and in) and the "Women's Movement." There are many things related to that, but probably the single biggest "lie" to come out of it was that "women don't need men." Men need women and women need men because that was God's design and purpose.

The idea is that men don't "rule over" women. God rules. Men and women in marriage are "one flesh," not two. They each have roles to perform, but they are equal in, and before, the Lord.

Sin, and our sin-nature, inherited from Adam and Eve, is at the root of the problem. Learning again what God's intent and purpose in the roles is what is important to Christians who are seeking to "do His will" before their own will.

God bless.

Forever-

I would agree with your analogy. I am a woman, but I have never been really huge on the whole women's liberation thing. I WANT to have doors opened for me, I absolutely need a man.

I think in the workplace that a woman doing the same job as a man should be paid equally, but that's really as far as I go with women's lib.

Of course, I can exist on my own, but I do not wish to do so. I wish to have a committed relationship where I can love and take care of my husband.

I know that my view is unpopular with many of my friends, but I have always "taken care" of my husband. I always fixed his plate for him, got his drink for him and/or refilled it when needed. This is NOT because he asked me to do this for him, but because it was something I wanted to do. I have been asked "WHY?! Caren? Why do you do those things for him? Are his arms and legs broken?" Well...no, they're not, but that isn't the point. I love my husband, and he worked hard all day, and I wanted him to relax and be taken care of when he returned home. I actually think I've probably ruined him....because I don't know too many other women who would want to do this for their husbands.

Where I contributed to the problems in my marriage is that there were things that my husband deemed important, that I did not. I didn't keep a very clean house, and I knew that he wanted that, but I didn't see it as important. I now see the err of my ways.

I see God's design now, for the first time in my life.

I had difficultly allowing my husband to be the head of the household because my mother filled that role while I was growing up. It was her way, or the highway.....and it still is, and my father just goes along with it, partly because his mother was also domineering.

I started out my relationship with my husband much the same way, I undermined his authority and had to have things my way. I took care of him, which seems a contradiction, but there were still things that my mother would gripe at me about such as "Why do you have to ask Mark if the kids can have someone over to spend the night?" (my answer, "he's my husband, and it's his house too, so I clear it with him) and "Caren why do you 'let' Mark have those dogs?" (my answer "Well, I don't 'let' him do anything, he's my husband and I don't rule over him, and I like the dogs too")

She couldn't understand why I wasn't like her, why I didn't do things just as she did.

So it was a constant battle within myself, but I would say that eventually the domineering won out, and I am regretful of that.

I have since changed my ways, I know what I was doing, and that it was not in line with God's plan for me or my marriage, and did not allow me to see what was going on right in front of my face when the "A" started to take hold.

I wish I knew then what I know now.

For the husband to be the "head" of the family and the wife to be the heart is as it should be. If you think about it in terms of anatomy.....neither the 'head' nor the 'heart' can function without the other, the head isn't more important than the heart, they are equally important, yet they play very different roles.

Again, with my friends, I can't think of a single one of them who agrees with my way of thinking. They are all still of the mindset, if it feels good do it. I wish that I could show them what I am talking about, but they'll have none of it. They don't understand, that having morals and being committed to my marriage, even though my husband chose to commit adultery, that I still love him, that I still want my family, and that I will continue to try until I am no longer able.

Even my mother disagrees with me, she thinks that I should divorce him. She says she wouldn't put up with my father having an affair. As do most people whose lives haven't been touched by this, they feel....if that happened it would be over.

When I stood up in front of God and my family and took those vows, they meant something to me........people say that marriage is just a piece of paper, but that isn't true....the marriage certificate is not what I hold dear, it is the bond between my husband and I that cannot seem to be severed.

What God has joined together let no man put asunder.

God Bless,

-Caren

Hi Ladies,

Last night I was all ready to disable my account... but read Caren's message first... and all I can say is... it stopped me. It gave me pause. I decided to wait.

Alright, I will dedicate myself to prayer about this again. I can only apologize for keeping you all (especially Y) dangling by a thread. In fact, my prayer will be about how much to be involved, because Y already said she'd do it and I don't think it's fair to leave her dangling (just thinking as I write, as usual).

FH, no worries.

Everyone else, your kind words and prayerful comments have not gone unnoticed. I promise you that I am praying on this... again. I do feel that I was led before, but perhaps circumstances have changed now, so I will pray again.

God bless...

I'm really sorry, guys, but it's time for me to bow out of this group. I really hope you find blessings and comfort in your study.

NB-

I am here for the duration.

Please keep praying about this, I have the strongest feeling about this and have praised God repeatedly for leading me to it.

Pray to be sure that what's going through your mind in regards to your current marriage is really the Lord speaking to you and not doubt creeping in. Pray for clarity.

I have no doubt about you NB, none whatsoever. I believe in you, and I believe in this thread.

Your intentions were pure and helpful, and I do not think they can be misconstrued as otherwise.

The way your marriage started is null and void at this point. It is blessed by God now, as I believe mine is, and I feel the changes within me, and it's nothing short of miraculous.

I just purchased a copy of the book, on Amazon for 1.50 or something, so I could have it. As I said before I want to read and re-read it, as this is an ongoing process.

Please don't let doubt creep in, that isn't God hon.

The initial "lightening bolt" was God.......the doubts are not. The Lord wouldn't make you 2nd guess such a noble purpose.

God Bless,

-Caren

P.S. NB, e-mail me if you get a chance, you are someone I'd like to know better <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have to admit that I have been thinking about this situation but not praying so much... at least, about "it"... I had the fourth in a series of scary medical tests today and that's been on my mind, mostly. But what weaves in and out of it (my mind, that is <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) is what's happened here, on this site and on this board, specifically.

I don't know the answers to all this jazz, but I do believe that since Y stepped forward to lead the study, that she should. That doesn't mean I'm not here... and that I won't be reading and responding along...

On my other thread... my original intent was to remove myself from harming others... in the end, as I guess I should have known would happen, I ended up removing myself from harm, as well.

The vast majority of people were very supportive, at least who wrote. I need to remember that... but the main thing: It's those who didn't write that I was writing to most -- if you know what I mean.

Caren, from what I've read of yours... yes, we have some life experience in common, I think. (((((Caren)))))

JustJ, I wish you continued peace on your journey. I never expected you to drop by in the first place... I appreciate your desire to learn something about me, about God, and about yourself. I bet you did all three! (((((Just J)))))

Anyway, I'm here... and will be here...

I would love to be part of this... but first I need to get the book and then join in. I will probably get it through Amazon.com, so I may be a few weeks behind... I've been a praying wife and mother for many years and have already seen the power of God's goodness and faithfulness through those prayers. Lately, I've felt distant from my Lord and want to get back... this could be just what I need!

God bless! roly85

Hi roly,

As you may have noticed, you joined at a rather awkward time around here... "awkward" doesn't seem like quite the right word, either... "weird" maybe. LOL There have been some changes and heavy/hairy/scary discussions on the boards over the last two weeks... some that I was directly in the center of (as only I can be <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. I continually put myself in harm's way - why? A question for another day, perhaps?)

So, does any of this matter to God? YES, it does.

It stopped me cold.

I don't think God appreciated that very much.

The momentum was set and then halted... we were all ready, weren't we?

Okay, so who's still ready to do this study? Anyone?

Please check in and let us know.

StandingTogether, how 'bout we co-lead, along with everyone else. By that I mean, let's all get involved... no leaders, no followers, just us all going forward. How would that be?

Let me... us... know.

Let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Galatians 6:9

I'm still wanting to be here - I've read the first 2 chapters and am reading the 3rd. All appropriate right now - praying for me to the the wife that he needs (i realize I haven't been), for his work (which seems to be rather dead-end career-wise for him right and and isn't going well for him lately) and for our financess (which definately need prayer). In fact - I'm wondering maybe where we would be if I had been praying for these things reguarly all along. I think it's good for me. I wrote out a couple of the prayers in my own handwriting to try and make them more real to me - personalize them a bit.