Top Rope,
I will answer you because you claim that you are "just curious" and I am a sucker for curiosity.

I visited this site prior to the creation of these forums (or perhaps I did not notice them at the time). This year, I saw the forums, got curious, and browsed through a few of the categories. I had no intention of registering, I was just interested in reading...That's when I noticed SB's thread. (He identified himself as military in the title of his thread.) I read his thread in detail because he & his wife are military-just like us. After reading it, I registered immediately.

I replied with some points of dissent and some hard questions, and then mayhem ensued.

One of the "attack points" was "There has GOT TO BE somefin' wrawng with her!" When that led to naught, it became "She is hiding something! Why doesn't she just tell us her story??? If she would do that, we could and would help her "

This and only this is what led me to post "my story" at this particular location.

Any more points of curiosity? Ask away.

And yet WE did speak up when the TRUE VICTIMS here were attacked...Neak and Sbmmal...So it seems that CinSug is right based upon Patriot's latest attack of us...sigh...Patriot, where were YOU when Neak and Sbmmal NEEDED you?

Further Cin Sug "outed" herself here and tried to twist things to make us into insincere cyberstalkers...We posted what we had so that things would be crystal clear about EXACTLY what had gone on...By the way CinSug, is it lost on you that YOU are the one that endangered your "friend's" group by posting your yahoo email address on another public forum? Patriot, quit grinding your personal axe with us...You will not become my red herring here...

Sadly, the Newly BH Sbmmal in Iraq no longer posts here...The person who NEEDED this forum and was USING it the way it was intended to be used is gone...Instead, CinSug remains with questionable stated problems and in denial of ones that MB is ill equipped to handle anyway...This just GALLS me!!!

Mrs. W

I admitted that I am not that net savvy-I did not know that posting an email address could have such repercussions. Apparently I wasn't the only one who did not know about this: My friend, the women in the group, the owner of the group, and a few people here did not know either.

I posted the story to demonstrate to all that I have absolutely nothing to hide.


I missed Patriot's "attack" on you. Where can I read about this?

CS, I’m reposting this because I've made changes and add many things after my initial response this morning:

CinnamonSugar, almost 3 years ago I’ve shared on this forum how some of my views and “personal truths” changed after my EA and especially after I’ve discovered this website. Here it is (I've copied, pasted and adjusted parts of the post I've send back in 2003):

[color:"blue"] My father was (and still is) involve with another woman since I was 10 years old. Till today, he still views her as only a ‘very close, emotional supportive friend’ and don’t think there is anything wrong with his ‘friendship’. I was thus raised with the perception (by my father’s example) that there is nothing wrong with ‘close opposite sex friendships’ between married people as long as there isn’t any sexual/sensual involvement. I didn’t know about EA’s until I discovered this website. My own inappropriate involvement with OM and this website was a very big eye-opener to me and corrected all the wrong perceptions I had about opposite sex friendships.

Therefore, the most important lessons I have learned and my perceptive now and prior to my EA and discovery of this website:

1. Illusion (before my EA): There is nothing wrong with close opposite sex friendships, as long there is no physical involvement.

Fact (after EA ended and I discovered this website): Close opposite sex friendship is VERY DAMAGING and a potential thread for any marriage. Friendships like this (especially were there is a close emotional attachment en dependence) are the ‘silent enemy’ and ‘silent killer’ because on the eye it ‘seems’ so innocent.

2. Before EA: If you are happily married and most of your EN’s are being met by your S, no OP or opposite sex friend is a potential thread to the M.

After EA: A’s happen all the time, even in very happy marriages. A marriage can stray en be vulnerable to an affair also because of adverse reasons and circumstances other than problems/issues within the M. All people have some personal problems/issues and baggage they bring into the M. Everyone must be aware of their own weaknesses & vulnerabilities.

3. Before EA: A’s only happen to bad people who have low morals and no conscience. People who have affairs don’t have love or respect towards their spouses.

After EA: A’s can happen to ANYONE – even good, religious people with high morals and strong conscience can get involved in an A... In fact, sometimes the so-called ‘good’ people are more vulnerable to an affair than anyone else because they think they will never get tempted and are not aware of their own human weaknesses. The same is applicable on OP’s.

4. Before EA: If you truly love your spouse, there can never be a place in your heart for someone else. If you develop feelings for someone else, you don’t really love your spouse.

After EA: I believe it IS possible to truly love your S and at the same time have feelings for someone else. The theory of the love bank also explains this phenomenon very clearly. Like I have said earlier, A’s can also happen because of adverse reasons and circumstances other than problems/issues within the M.[/color]

CS, another “personal truth” and belief I’ve had prior to my EA, was the belief that I would NEVER betray my H and that I was not capable or “had it in me” to betray him or would even experience the temptation to betray him with another man. Somehow I thought I was “above” infidelity and temptation and immune against it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> As a result, during the friendship, I failed to protect myself against my own weaknesses/vulnerabilities (wasn’t aware of those specific weaknesses/vulnerabilities at the time) and unwittingly crossed boundaries from platonic friendship into romantic love (“fell in love” with OM).

Therefore the following is one of the greatest "truths" I've learned from my experience and this website:

"Falling in love with someone other than your spouse is not caused by unmet needs in your marriage. It is caused by a failure to protect your own weaknesses." Steven W. Harley, M.S.

from http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi050_sample.html

Edited to add this paragraph:
CS, on your other thread someone has pointed out to you that according to Harley ANYONE could have an affair (actually Dr Harley’s exact words is that anyone is wired to have an A). Anyway, you then responded by saying that you have never had those feelings; that you’re not saying it is impossible, but that it just isn't within the scope of your personality. Well, guess what? I once thought the same thing (that it wasn’t within the "scope of my personality" to be tempted and/or cheat)…

NOW I belief given the right circumstances, any of us are capable of any sin. The Bible says, ”Don’t be so naive and self-confidant. You’re not exempt. You could fall flat on your face as easily as anyone else”. Very true…

Cinsug,

I have been watching this drama for a couple of days now....have read it all....haven't entered the fray....but I have a few thoughts about how things got so hostile. It appears to me, and I could be wrong....that you may think that folks have responded negatively to you because you disagree, challenge some people's beliefs, or have your own "take" on some issues. That's not what I've observed in these interchanges. Almost every poster here has an opinion....you're not unique in that. Many posters disagree with some part of Harley's advice or how it's interpreted....you're not unique in that either.

What is different about you....and what I believe may be the source of alot of the hostility is that from the very first post you personally attacked the opinion of another poster. You named them, you cautioned the originator of the thread about listening to them....it was an inauspicious beginning and an unusual way to begin posting here. You immediately put people on the defensive.....and then seemed surprised when they were??? It's not the disagreement that is the problem....it's the highly charged language, disrespect, and critical nature of your posts that has some folks circling the wagons.

Now you want to call an unconditional ceasefire without ever addressing coming on like gang busters and in attack mode right from the start. It takes a long time for folks to develop a safe rapport with people....partially because so many of them are in such emotional turmoil. You dropped in....onto a thread where a man was devastated, and created less safety for him....rather than more. People here quickly learn who really understands these concepts and who is sincerely interested in helping. They also quickly learn who seems to just want to create controversy. Trust around here is earned....and nothing you've said so far has encouraged me to believe that you're earnest in your desire to support people. You just seem curious, defensive and condescending. Being net savvy is also about "netiquette" and you may not even understand how you violated that.

Now you want everybody to play nice....without so much as an apology for the rudeness and smugness of your posts. I guess I'm not up for an "unconditional" ceasefire. I think conditions are important because they create a standard for relationships here.....and they protect the folks who are really hurting. I didn't bother you before....and I won't now....but if you want to get anything out of this board....even infotainment....I think it's going to take more than just a temporary halt in the battle.....just like the middle east.....this will quickly erupt again if the underlying issues are not addressed.

~insight does not set us free

~it just lets us know where the fight is going to be

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
nice post Star*

very nice post in fact star.

Excellent post, Star!

I wanted to post early this morning but my computer wouldn't let me, so I'll just join in at the tail and say, "You're a 5-***** star*fish, Star, and that was a 5-***** post.

t&l, Neak's Biomom until proven otherwise

I completely agree with you, BM.

Hee hee .... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Star*fish...

THANK YOU for so eloquently stating EXACTLY what Mr. W and I discussed yesterday...You have a gift for getting your point across PERFECTLY! You are appreciated here at MB!

Mrs. W

P.S. *SNICKER* BioMom...LOVE THE INITIALS ON THAT!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Suzet, thanks. That was a very thought-provoking post.

I have never had those feelings; howeevr, as I have said before...anything is possible. It's the probability that I am speaking about here:

I am aware of the dangers of opposite sex friendhips, as well as the other issues you adressed (eloquebtly at that). I have consumed copious amounts of "expert" opinion about marriage and relationships (including Harley's work), this is why I said that it isn't within the scope of my personality.

When you have this kind of awareness and are determined to be proactive about your marriage and family, there are certain things that are simply less likely. (Not impossible-but defintiely less likely.)

This fits in with Harley's idea about lack of protection rather than unmet needs being the culprit when it comes to an affair...though I cannot say that I agree with him entirely on this point. MAny other experts say the main culprit is unmet needs...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I will not address what you have written because I am participating in the cease fire.

Excuse me for pointing this out, but you, sir, are supposed to be participating in an unconditional cease fire.

Are you saying I cannot participate in a cease fire if I agree with a post that you don't like? It would be nice of you to comment on that post. I don't construe the post by starfish as an attack on you. I hope you consider that post.

Nope <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />-I am saying that participation in an unconditional cease fire means that you no longer pick sides or even appear to do so.



Nope <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />it would not be "nice"...for two reasons:
-It would violate the unconditional cease fire.
-It would simply provide more fuel for the vehicle that I am no longer interested in riding in.

why? why? why? is anyone posting to this person who is not here to get or give support for saving a marraige?

i am not here, and i doubt anyone else is either, to amuse someone who is here to read about our most private and painful situations because they are "curious"

instead, please consider using your time to post to those who are really in need

An excellent point indeed...People who truly need help should be the recipients of it.