OK...
let me say
NOT having read justjilly's thread..

AND
STILL
NOT having read justjilly's thread since it is now impossible to do so since she deleted it...

and is it correct that THIS post now has deleted infor...

what can anyone say about something that has obvious missing info......

what do you want to happen with this post...

ARK

Well

JustJilly's affair marriage with a new affair sure did trigger JustPeachy[/b] into a world of hurtful memories, didn't it!

Sucks to be the wistress on MB when your former affair partner cheats on you .... I cannot think of one person who thinks this does not suck 6 ways 'till Tuesday!

I stayed away from her original thread ... because I recognized there was no way I could express my HONEST thoughts that would not be offensive TO SOMEONE!

Helping the wistress survive her husband's affair ... probably insults many more betrayed wives on this board, besides Peachy....

Here ya are Peachy ... take ~another~ sucker-punch to the gut ... it's the "right thing to do"....

uh-huh

Pep

Thanks star*fish, good understanding post including Harley himself's views.
Your last sentence sums it up quite well.

Ark, by reading JustJilly's thread, even with HER posts
deleted; the hurtful replies she received will explain a LOT.

Plus, some of JustJilly posts were quoted so you will get a good understanding even without reading her posts.

Pep, it is hardly worth responding to your post!
What is it's useful or helpful purpose?

Star, do you think I should delete Mr W's quoted post
in the first post of this thread? I emailed him that I would if he wanted me to or if he didn't mean it. If you say I should delete it, I will be glad to.

I had the opportunity to express myself ... same as you ... and THAT is it's purpose... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Therefore, you do not need to respond!

wrong iwra..

I can not make any decisions without knowing BOTH sides....

I do know I read she LOVES him...

well without knowing anything..

sometimes
often

love ain't a enough....
and has nothing to do with any of this...

I also do acknowledge that some people do hold religious beliefs about divorce....and they are entitled to those opinions.....


ARK

RE: can affair marriages ever be ligitimate?

Hmmmmmmm, maybe.

But they will nonetheless be hypocritical.

JMHO

WAT

Maybe those who are badly triggered shouldn't respond? There are so many hurts on this board and I understand that JustJilly's situation caused those hurts and triggers to be magnified. But, instead of bringing our anger on a poster that needs help, wouldn't it be better to stay away from the thread as others so admirably did? Let those that are not triggered do the helping?

Just MHO....I have received so many 2x4's and anger spewed at me on this board. None of it helped me. The anger distracted me and pushed me down. It did not build me up and help me see clearly. I had to wade through the anger and look for the encouraging posts. It was only when I stepped back to look at the message that many were trying to give me, did I see the help that was given (by the encouraging posts). But, the anger and disrepect did not help me.

I was reading over the thread. And the comment that stuck out to me the most about justjilly's sitch on MB in this statement here from Orchid.

I don't agree with people who said she didn't have a place here. From reading this thread I understand that she was an OW who married a WS. This is obviously the make-up of a not-so-good R. A R starting off with a bad foundation. Now she is seeing some of the problem of being in a sitch as hers right now.

Yet she is still trying to work on her M. I know she has to realize her mistake and I think that we (fellow MBers)shouldn't try to prevent her from coming here unless the administrators have made an issue of it.

By the same token this is something that she has to have in her mind to do and stick with it. Take the post that are helpful and discard the rest, realizing that humans make mistakes. Some people may help you and some may not for whatever reasons. Many have open wounds still about their own sitch so you may not get help from everyone. This is a part of how things work on this here ole' earth.


So to justjilly:

If you are out here and you want to work on your M, I encourage you to return. Get your materials in hand, seek help, listen to/read the info that can help you, realizing the road may be long, but Don't let anyone deter you from from seeking help.

Just my two cents.

Wow...I thought it was God's job to do the judging.

IWRA:

I must admit I was very torn when reading the just jilly's thread.

On the one hand I concur with the position that an A is and A is an A.

But then,
I thought:
she did at least marry the guy, its been 10 yrs .....and there are children involved.

Because of NOT really KNOWING (myself) where I stood ........I chose to stay out of the thread altogether.

Guess I was leaning towards perhaps giving her some support and maybe (just maybe) Helping the 2 of them END they cycle of A's that seems to be running their lives.

My giver wanted to do that.
My Taker wanted to say "see, told ya so". Perhaps just to make the point.

I don't know if I should have intervened or not ......but I will say that I do feel bad <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> when I think of her Having to go this alone (even after she somehow Found this place).
Shame on ME! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

So is there a statute of limitations or some such other "exceptions" --[Grandfathering?] that can be made at some point????
Just questions I'm wrestling with myself.
Never really had to deal with them before, because even if someone came here from an A and WAS Married ......it generally was very short term .......and therefore I felt OK with shooting it down.
This case seemed a bit different. At least to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

I don't think "it is clear". I was troubled by the Justjilly situation greatly. My nature is truly compassionate and I wanted to help her "save her marriage" but at the same time didn't want to disavow my own principles in doing so. I also didn’t want to be hypocritical to other BS’s I’ve posted to practically promising that the adulterous relationship/marriage would nearly always fail. Anyway, it was a new MB question for me that I discussed with others off MB to end up with even more questions myself. My current position/belief I stated clearly.

Notice, I didn't post my words TO justjilly. I assume she has left and if someone forwards my words to here as if I was addressing her than any "effect" it supposedly could have on her is the obligation of that/those person(s).

To clarify. It IS a public forum and she IS free to post here. I merely agreed with her own stated assessment she made in HER exit posts that she has no place here. Further, the quoted text above is part of a much bigger post regarding "shame". I utilized the extreme and my current religious position as an example of someone that may or may not be "trapped" in "shame" pursuant to Dr. Brene Brown's analysis of shame. The "expectations" of many religious persons for Justjilly to divorce to actually "go, and sin no more" is likely unrealistic for her and thus "trapping" to her. Being “trapped” in shame is unhealthy pursuant to the scientific community. If she ends up reading such position and feeling shame herself, perhaps Dr. B.Brown’s concept of "shame resiliency" would be effective for her. I’m certain Starfish can be of help to her.

My questions after I noticed her thread on "just found out" way before she ever posted on GQII were:

*Would Dr. Harley advise JJ??? I got several answers. I'd love to know his position. I actually think he would but I am uncertain.

*Is there ANY way for JJ to make this right???
*Can she repent and stay married to her OM, now husband???
*Could she possibly divorce and remarry him or someone else???
*Where does salvation fall into this???

I got conflicting answers, but personally, my beliefs fall more in line with that for her to "go, and sin no more" did not include the right for her to go home and lay down with her adulterous husband. Her previous "moral failures" would be washed away, but continuing her illegitimate adulterous marriage would be a continuing moral failure even from the point of salvation on that she must address. Unfortunately, that is the way I see things. I empathize with JJ's plight. It wasn't my "anger" that kept me from "objectively" posting to her...it actually was my empathy. I wish her no ill will. I certainly searched for an out for her within myself and couldn't find it. I also tried to empathize with her and her husbands betrayed spouses and her kids...JJ is not the only victim.

That being said, this IS a new concept to me that has not yet been thoroughly explored (another reason I never posted to JJ). I am still learning. My own faith has grown the last year by leaps and bounds and I'd really like to explore this issue further. If there is a way, I'll pray for JJ to find it as I am certain the path is narrow and arduous. If there is not, I will also pray for her, her husband, her children and their betrayed spouses.

Mortarman and ForeverHers words here would be greatly appreciated by me.

Mr. Wondering

*IWRA - I stand by my post as quoted. No need to remove it and no your email did not sway me at all. It is amazing how truly foggy JJ sounded in private after 10 years. Her email buffers my opinion that the sickness and immorality continue. If there is a way for her to right her/their ship, I pray she can extricate herself from the fog to find it. BTW, since when do we take wayward spouses opinion and history rewrites about their betrayed spouses as fact. Calling her first husband "abusive" is a disservice.

If MB also supports affair marriages, what does that say about the marriages that are supported here (origin affair-less) that were and are being "destroyed" by those very relationships (affairs)???

2B

I think this is clearly the best option.

Did it trigger you personally?

Pep

Any counseling program takes people from where they are...

Someone who is in an "affair marriage" should be helped so that they don't make the same mistakes they made before.

Once the affairees are married the previous marriage must be considered "failed" and is closed.

I don't think it reasonable to suggest that someone who married as a result of an affair should divorce and remarry their first spouse.

They should start doing the right things from this point forward...and that means living up to their current commitments...

So, I guess things have a time limit on whether its still considered wrong or not. Give it a few years and a child or two and its no longer a problem.

I know, maybe we should have a special board just for those type of relationships that were born of affairs.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I agree with IWRA.

I'm ashamed that I encouraged JustJilly to post on general questions.

No...meeting people where they are can very well acknowledge where they've been. You can also acknowledge that sometimes those things can't be undone...and you have to seek the best solution for the situation.

It's clear that these situations can trigger those whose marriage ended becasue of an A. Those folks should simply avoid posting to these types of posters.

Use the "Ignore" button if they offend you.

It get's me...

This forum...only for the righteously indignant...
Only for those who are victims...
Only for those who have been wronged...

Perps go elsewhere! We don't want to help you! We don't care if you want to change! You deserve what you get!

News Flash, LO. Its also offensive to many who are not divorced that are still fighting for their marriages (AKA BSes).

Low,
There are plenty of reformed perps here.
And as far as I'm concerned perps genuinly wanting to change are also welcome here.
But I must stress... genuinly.