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Regardless, marriages of all types (between men and women) are recognized as marriages by God. They may not be marriages between two believers, but they are marriages nonetheless.
To deny forgiveness to someone who is brought to a saving faith or to a believer who later "hears" the Holy Spirit and is convicted of their sin and then repents, is contrary to Jesus' command to Peter, and to all of us.
God bless. thank you
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Shaden is a comedian !!!!!!!
who knew?
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Shaden is a comedian !!!!!!! What... you don't believe me? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> C'mon up here to Winterpeg in January... you'll be wishing the polar bears were around to block out the wind.
BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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Exactly, spectacles. 10 years is a LONG time to ponder your past actions. It is sufficient time to come to understanding and sufficient time to gain wisdom and suffer consequences. It is time to do a lot of things, including coming to terms, making peace, and turning over a new leaf. I think she has a valid marriage and all that goes with it. If she wants to save it, then she should go for it and will likely find much support here for it. To Mrs. Wondering...BULLPUCKY! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
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To Mrs. Wondering...BULLPUCKY! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> GREAT ARGUMENT!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> It's all clear now, THANKS! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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Hey that was easy. I must say you are a woman of emminent understanding. My faith in you continues...
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Hey that was easy. I must say you are a woman of emminent understanding. My faith in you continues... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Cool! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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To Mrs. Wondering...BULLPUCKY! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> wow, that was a well reasoned, intelligent, rational argument! NOT! [methinks somebody got screwed if you actually paid for the education that produced that thinking.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />]
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I still am not gonna sugarcoat what I deem as an affair marriage. I don't care how long they're married. They broke apart NOT ONE BUT TWO families to get to this point and this woman must be in severe denial when SHE HERSELF helped aid in the destruction of her H's former marriage by participating in an affair.
Was she so severely in denial that she didn't think it could happen to her?
I am sorry. But I see severe issues ahead for a couple who built a marriage based on a foundation of quicksand and lies...and furthemore...some justifications that I read that show her head is still in the fog. The whole "well the former BW even thinks our M is great and she is glad we married "...that is ....
that is...
TOTAL BULLPUCKY AND ELEPHANT EXCREMENT.
me:37 BS; s:7;
xh:38; OW:26;eloped w/OW 1 wk after D: 12/29/03. OC born 3/17/04. Happy! Blessed to be the mother of a wonderful son..great profession..Life's good!
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My understanding of Foreverhers posts: JJ's marriage, absent repentence and/or forgiveness, is currently, has always been and will always be a legitimate adulterous marriage. Without proper repentence it remains "adulterous" in nature 1, 5, 10, 20+ years despite any children or other factors. ONLY the seeking of forgiveness and repentence can possibly modify it for Christians. I believe for non-chrisitians the answer was become saved/born again in Jesus and then the marriage you find yourself in becomes fully legitimate in the eyes of God. Absent saving, the "golden rule" and/or society at large should/could likely require big time forgiveness or something. Most, I believe, see some "karma" in this. Something like that. Anyway, the key questions/moral issue is how exactly to pull the "adulterous" out of such legitimate "adulterous" marriage. I posted a contemplated solutions earlier in this thread: Questions to Foreverhers:
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As far as repentence, is that an individual borne thing/idea that the repentent one is to come to in prayer? Exactly what would constitute repentence, in your opinion, for a situation like JJ's?
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I am currently thinking, perhaps "legal" divorce may be an unnecessary step in repentence (ForeverHers cleared this up for me...not convinced still seeking my beliefs), however, in the process of "Sinning no more", so to speak, could a period of abstinence and rebirth of the relationship (even using MB principles and pastoral guidance) followed by a recommended legal renewal of vows (of course, after forgiveness, atonement and amends are sought from the former BS's, if possible) be a good idea as a form of repentence??? (I say this not as advice to JJ but more along the lines of something I might consider if I were in her shoes) Again, I think repentence is likely an individual thing that no one here could ever answer. It should be hard and challenging. I personally can see a difference when I see successful repentence in the words posted herein (i.e.-like New Beginnings, my own wife and many others...even those that disagree with me ...this is not a blanket condemnation). JJ's email forwarded to me clearly indicates a lack of understanding and true repentence. To be certain, repentence is a far, far, far cry from remorse. What is ironic about this whole JJ issue is everyone can look back and see that JJ was given that exact advice by JustPeachy on JJ's Just Found Out Board thread. She came here to get what she wanted and ended up getting nearly exactly what she needed absent any religious condemnation from JP. JustPeachy, a BS reached out to JJ and nailed it and JJ completely disregarded her advice and eventually left. Mr. Wondering
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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I am sorry. But I see severe issues ahead for a couple who built a marriage based on a foundation of quicksand and lies...and furthemore...some justifications that I read that show her head is still in the fog. The whole "well the former BW even thinks our M is great and she is glad we married "...that is ....
that is...
TOTAL BULLPUCKY AND ELEPHANT EXCREMENT. JP...totally agree. I give 2 to 1 odds that JJ's husband has cheated on JJ with such xW. Men that don't value fidelity don't throw away women so readily attainable. They like to keep their collection close by. XW will always be willing to stab JJ in the back and JJ's husband is just the guy to exploit that. What affair proof marriage would have an ex-wife hanging around completely trusted as a "friend"? A solid MB principle especially in this situation. Another theory...XW's thinking = "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer". Certainly lacking faith in our fellow mankind and maybe not the case...hence the odds. Anyone willing to take that bet??? Mr. Wondering
Last edited by MrWondering; 07/30/06 03:44 PM.
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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So where is Jilly in all of this 'suppositions'? This thread was even visited by the mothership and someone thought SNL may have come back as a woman? LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
This is quite a lively discussion one that has touched some sensative spots in our lives. Will it always be this way? Yes. Why? Because our individual experiences make some more keen than others as to how we are individually affected.
This is a debate of sorts. Never will there be a complete agreement. At the very best IMHO, it will help those who think it is ok to have an A M that it is not. The lack of trust is evident even from these postings.
Does that mean their children and families legitimized after the A turned M as doomed for life? Then ask how will I treat those I meet in life (casually, socially, neighbors, friends, relatives, etc.), how will I treat them once I know they are in an A turn M type R? Will I treat them or their children differently? Should I?
That's where all of this really comes down to those who believe and those who believe and practice.
Think about the relatives where a sister, daughter, neice, granddaughter, aunt, son, brother, nephew, grandson, uncle, parent, grandparent, etc. is in one of those sitches. How would you treat them vs how do you treat them.
I occassionally see my cousin's XH, when he comes to drop off or pick up his son from our home. It is hard and I hardly even know the guy. His current W was sort of the OW (he started seeing her after they separated but before they were divorced). There was no A in the M. Their separation had t/d with her wanting to go to school and him feeling left out of her life because she was furthering her education and he wasn't. Yet, he still left his family and their only son grew up with his grandmother and mother. That was and is hard for my cousnin's son. My own son often worries about his cousin (they are close).
When I see his current wife, the thoughts flood back and I hardly know her. Of course the current W has no clue how I feel. But she may....eventually. The one thing is that he and others will always have to wonder what others things of them and their A turned M. That is often a type of pnishment itself. Time will tell.
JMHO,
L.
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Oh Spectacles, how nice that you have joined in this discussion. Now we have a predatory OW weighing in. I say we should just contact the TOW site and ask if they'd like to somehow partner up with MB. I mean we're all so open-minded! A marriage is a marriage right? Why bother trying to help people break up these As and save the first M anyway? I say let's just help the WS and the OP learn good MB skills so there new M will be a great success! You're absolutely right Spectacles. Tell all your OW friends to just bypass TOW and come right on in here for some darn good advice. Oh by the way, have you told the man you're "just living with" about the MM you are using MB skills to have a great R with yet? Just curious? Hope everything you've learned here is helping you out! .... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
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i can only hope, no matter how many years have passed, that if my H and OW marry....and he cheats ON her as he did WITH her......and she comes here to ask for help saving "her" marriage
the wise people here tell her that what comes around goes around so she got what she deserved....
and then they move on and use thier time and energy to help someone who HAS NOT stolen a spouse from someone else
because i believe that NO marriage that is built on the pain of others and comes about after destroying so many lives is deserving of the caring, compassion, and wise advice that is given on this site
how would YOU feel if JJ were the person who had an affair with your spouse, caused your D, and then married your H or W? would you want people here to help her save her marraige when she didn't care that she destroyed yours? I must say something here: On an emotional level I agree with the sentiment... There is something that disturbs me about a marriage that sprung from such beginnings; however, I do not share the "bashing" sentiment. On an intellectual level, I think it's best to simply read the person's post, smile to yourself if need be (that someone is getting well-deserved karmic retribution) and not reply. After all, this environment is supposed to be about something else entirely...
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Oh Spectacles, how nice that you have joined in this discussion. Now we have a predatory OW weighing in. I say we should just contact the TOW site and ask if they'd like to somehow partner up with MB. I mean we're all so open-minded! A marriage is a marriage right? Why bother trying to help people break up these As and save the first M anyway? I say let's just help the WS and the OP learn good MB skills so there new M will be a great success! You're absolutely right Spectacles. Tell all your OW friends to just bypass TOW and come right on in here for some darn good advice. Oh by the way, have you told the man you're "just living with" about the MM you are using MB skills to have a great R with yet? Just curious? Hope everything you've learned here is helping you out! .... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> What are you shocked about?
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CS, Spectacles is the former OW of a member of MB. She used MB to try to initiate further contact with him. I don't know if he's still around. If he's not, the only reason will be to prevent stalking NOT because he wants a relationship with her.
THAT was the reason for the post to her.
Last edited by KiwiJ.; 07/30/06 04:06 PM.
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Yo Cinn - would you be so kind as to identify who's in the group and who's not?
Thanks,
WAT Psst, WAT...((looking left and right conspiratorily)) Whisper>>>> If you read a bit more, they will certainly reveal themselves to you. Simply look for the most vocal people who all seem to be syaing the same damned thing AND (and this is perhaps THE most important part) who attack anyone who does not march in lockstep...
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CS, Spectacles is the former OW of a member of MB. She used MB to try to initiate further contact with him. I don't know if he's still around. If he's not, the only reason will be to prevent stalking NOT because he wants a relationship with her.
THAT was the reason for the post to her. Kiwi, According to Spectacles early last week on Recovery Board (note... I don't put too much stock in what OW say)...Scott is getting divorced, he called her for support and she is going to help him through it. Since she is living with another boyfriend anything her and Scott may do will have to wait till after the divorce ...ya know, so it can all be on the up and up. That was my take...for what it's worth. Mr. Wondering
Last edited by MrWondering; 07/30/06 04:18 PM.
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Oh, Mr W, that doesn't sound good. Edited, I changed your sex so you were your wife. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by KiwiJ.; 07/30/06 04:16 PM.
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Oh, Mr W, that doesn't sound good. Edited, I changed your sex so you were your wife. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Changed my sex Ouch....you made me cringe just thinking about it. lol...good thing you're thousands of miles away from me or I wouldn't sleep tonight MR. W
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