Okay you guys.. I've had enough of this.
You might not (never) agree on certain things.
But that's no reason to let this whole thing escalate.
You are both intelligent and sensitive and trying to help others here.
Take a deep breath.. throw something at me if that's what you need to get this out of your system (a doughnut?)..
Tend to those bleeding noses and shake hands, ok?

2B... Suzet is a big girl... she stuck up for herself.

Yes she is. I am a big girl too and wanted to make the comment... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

well, I hope you feel better for having done so. Have a nice day.

I am having a GREAT day! Hope you have a nice day too!

I was in no way doing that...and I don't believe that.

In the context of my post, I was merely pointing out that I can THINK that all day long if I want to...but it helps none of you to beat you over the head with it. Quite the opposite...it's cruel and abusive.

If it is not respectful and helpful...don't post it. That's the point I was making.

LowOrbit...

I believe you to be KING of the grey area, and I'll tell you why...When I first came to MB deep, deep in the fog, it was, in fact, your post that made me feel so good...You told me that you had gone to counseling and figured out that you really did LOVE your OP, and that that was okay...That made me feel SOOOO JUSTIFIED IN MY WS "FEELINGS"...That gave validity to the way I felt in the fog...It led me to further contemplate just how much I "loved" OM. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I have NEVER forgotten your post and will forever remember it as the disservice that it was...

So you'll have to excuse me when I disregard your opinions and those that cling to them on this board as I see them for what they are...ENABLING...Simply an attempt to make yourself and others here feel warm and fuzzy inside no matter what the consequences...I see you as someone who says that LOVE is always good...LOVE can NEVER be sick...Especially in a world full of "mean", "harsh" judgements...OH NO, IT WOULD BE TERRIBLE FOR SOMEONE TO ADMIT WRONG AND HAVE TO <GASP> DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES!!! Why do that when we can just love and be happy in the moment, because that FEELS so GOOD, right?

Anyway, FWIW, I just thought you should know...

Mrs. W

Mrs Dubya

I think your point deserves it's own thread ... you have a perspective that I lack .... which posts did you recieve that enabled your foggy thinking ????

anywho ... may I suggest you put this aside so it stands out on it's own?

I'd like to reference it in the future without having to weed through all this other 'stuff'

Pep

So, what's yer point? That you don't agree with me? So what.
Many don't. Many never will...

Different people bring a lot of different things to the table. I happen to think the fundamentalist black and white thinking hurts people needlessly...but I know that some see it differently.

Here is where we appear to be different...I can respect that in you...

ROCK on Suzet...

Nice thread. It is good to see what people really think about WS and FWS.

It mut be hard not getting nose-bleeds whilst you perch so high on your moral pedestals. It might be a nice view, but I bet it is pretty lonely up there all alone . . . way above us fallen trash.

Jilly did the sensible thing, she met hostility with intellect, she saw that this place had nothing but malice for her and she left. Lead by example.

<Different people bring a lot of different things to the table. I happen to think the fundamentalist black and white thinking hurts people needlessly...but I know that some see it differently.>

So true.
There is a group of hardliners here who seem to think that their drawing and quartering of people they consider "morally" corrupt is doing some great service.

It is not a service. You have no right to stand in condemnation of other people. You can have a feeling about what they have done, but also extend to them the same grace that Christ himself have extended to YOU THE SINNER.

If you are a Christian, you know that God himself states "judge not lest ye be judged". God flat out states it is for HIM to judge. So the many of you who are coming from this from moral Christian persepctive, you are twisting Gods intentions to suit your own intentions, and that,by definition is taking the Name of the Lord Thy God in vain.

Besides the ultimate truth is that what you are doing with your attacks is causing all sort of hurt and hopelessness in people who are, with loved ones, already in a world of hurt.

An interesting point, Noodle.... one of many that is getting lost here in all the turmoil.

This is along the same lines that an A is not one huge act of sin... but many individual acts which compound into a whole world of hurt. Each time the boundary is crossed, each time the WS allows themselves to think and fantasize about the OP, each time a lie is told... many different acts adding together.

If there is some sense of truth to your quote above... that an affair marriage does not exist in a state of sin... would it not, however, be an ongoing culmination of sins each day or each moment that they exist in that marriage?

When we talk about repentance and forgiveness... does that mean that God says your "original" sin of having an A and entering into an A marriage is now forgiven. The attitude you had during that time is now forgiven... but then what? You have repented and admitted to wrong... apologized to BS and received their forgiveness. To be forgiven, must they dissolve the M or would God say... your attitude and beliefs are now changed... you have done your part to make things right... now look after your new family and turn it into a family that loves and respects me and others? Or is the only way for repentance to remove all traces of sin and dissolve the M?

As I have said in earlier posts, I am talking about a situation in which years have gone by and there will be a whole lot of new hurt to people if the new "marriage" were to dissolve. Both options have hurt... is there a "greater good" (or rather, lesser bad) here or is there only one right?

Shaden

Blackopal... I agree that this seems to be happening sometimes... but I believe the INTENTIONS behind those I am guessing your are referring to is also Christlike.

Jesus taught us that anger at sin is good and healthy. He cleared the hawkers and sellers out of the church in anger. To sit by and let sinful behavior or attitudes continue is not right. The problem is, though, that there are differing opinions on what is sinful actions... the "grey" areas which have been discussed.

How can this be resolved? You got me. Those that are condemning or arguing against what they perceive as sinful are doing what they believe is right. Those that are arguing against them are also doing what they believe is right. It's the Crusades all over again. Me, I'm just trying to figure out what "side" I'm on... or atleast, sort out what my beliefs are.

Shaden

people who are in a world of hurt .... people like HurtInOklahoma

she is a victim
her XH is living with MOW
he's taken her kids
she's left with no money and no life insurance

god bless their FUTURE affair marriage

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

And which one of us get to judge what the consequences should be and if they are equal to the crime?

Should they be external, where all the world can see? Or should they be internal, where only we know of our own misery and pain?

Would you be able to tell?...if the consequences had been met?

We have learned that the stats for affair marriage are very, very low. I believe 3% success rate last time I saw them.

And they are low for a reason...

because consequences are a sure thing...

because quilt always seeks punishment (internally/unconciously)

because the affair partners don't have the tools to make it work

because nothing good ever comes from another's pain...

The consequences will be-

whether you deem it so, or not Mrs. W.


No CN, you are only trash if you marry your AP according to some on here.

If you divorce your spouse and live in wretchedness for all your days remaining, well I guess it's all good then.

Justice would have been served.

And how that helps mankind is beyond me.

All marriages resulting from affairs are illigit in the eyes of MB,

so lets don't help them.

Suffer onto the little children,
the sins of the parents.

And you, madam, are bastardizing that passage in order to twist its meaning to suit your own personal opinion. Nowhere in the Bible does it say we are NOT to judge. Nowhere does it say that it is only for HIM to judge.

If that were so, you would be in violation yourself for the scathing HYPOCRITICAL judgments you pass here. Any 4th grade sunday school student knows that the passage you bastardized is NOT an admonition against JUDGING, but an admonition against HYPOCRISY, something you are doing YOURSELF here. Let's look at what you LOPPED OFF:

Matthew 7: 1-5

1Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.



Anyone can see that this does not say DO NOT JUDGE. It says FIRST REMOVE THE MOTE from your eye SO THAT YOU CAN JUDGE PROPERLY.

Further, if you cannot "judge" right from wrong, you should not be walking about FREE amongst decent, civilized folks. You should be IMPRISONED with others who cannot judge right from wrong. You belong in PRISON if you cannot judge right from wrong.

Yet you come here and stand in "judgement" of OTHERS making you a bald faced HYPOCRITE, by your own standard.

The typical Canadian response... like when we sat back trying to see what the rest of the World would do when the Americans and British began/continued the war in Iraq. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Shaden

That's right Melody, calm yerself down, pull up your stretch pants and READ WHAT YOU JUST WROTE.

You make the case for your corruption of the word of God simply by the example you continue to set and the hate you continue to spew.

Pitiful.

In other words you can't refute a word I said and don't even try. CASE CLOSED.