I really hope MM decides to join this discussion as well.

Let's look at MM's situation.

Lets say MM is now divorced and MM'sWW marries the troll. Should we or MM consider that a legitimate marriage?

Myschae and AmIok - I'm not sure about what Mortarman may have said about this, but I know that I have said this.

Here is the "point" that, in my opinion, must be considered, we are talking about two people who have each professed a belief in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

Personally, I do not believe that a true believer CAN be guilty of abuse and abandonment, and the faithful spouse is, therefore, in an "unequally yoked" marriage. In such a case, the "guilty party" HAS abandoned the marriage and their role as husband or wife as set by God either through the abuse (total lack of love and caring and protecting, mental abandonment; or through a physical abandonment of leaving). Paul's inspired admonition on this situation then comes into play. "But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. (1Cor 7:15 NIV)

In the prior passage in Matthew, Jesus was speaking of believers and the generally accepted application of "marital unfaithfulness" is adultery.

If each believer does not strive to individually "put on the full armor of God," they leave themselves open to temptation and sin. What arrogance, or simplemindedness, is it for a believer to think that they are somehow "immune" to sin if they don't cling fast to the Lord? WE open the door to sin in our lives when we take our eyes off of Jesus, just as Peter did while walking on the water toward Jesus. Peter believed in Jesus, but let the "world" distract him and he began to "sink into it." Yet Jesus did not let him drown, he reached out and took hold of him and brought him back to "safety."

Even the apostle Paul tells us of his daily "battle" with his sin-nature and how it struggles with his mind for "dominance." Sin IS powerful. We do not "defeat" sin on our own, we do so with the power of God as we remain focused on Christ as our source of strength and power.

God bless.

Bigkahuna – let me combine your three posts into one, if I may, for greater ease in responding.



What I said, BK is that “Satan and the fallen angels are stronger than Man,” not stronger than God. The “best proof” of their destructive power and ability to deceive Man, in my mind anyway, is the total depravity of Mankind at the time of Noah. Man’s exercise of his God-given Free Will was based in his Sin Nature and was, by nature, against God and belief in God. Thus, with the exception of Noah and is family, the entire world was corrupt and against God.

So we are NOT talking about a believer who is STANDING for the Lord, in the power of the Lord (Philippians 4:13), but in those who, like Peter, take their eyes off of Jesus and succumb to "reality" (worldly speaking), believing the lie that Satan used on Eve, “God didn’t REALLY mean what He said, you will not surely die if you partake of what God has forbidden.”

Actually the church IS on defense, not on offense. The “Offense” won’t start until Christ returns. Satan is the “lord” of this world, for now, but it is a temporary thing until God creates a new world after the return of Jesus.

So if you want “proof” of Satan’s ability to deceive, look no further than those he has fooled into thinking that thinking a mere profession of belief is enough, with surrendering their “free will” to God. That IS the warning believers, and all who hear the Gospel, are given in the Parable of the Soils (Sower).



I agree. However, our “good works” are a natural result of having surrendered our lives to Christ. We, believers, understand what it cost Jesus to provide us with reconciliation to God, and we respond out of love by doing (works) those things that bring honor and glory to God, not to obtain or maintain our salvation, but out of love FOR God and what He did for us.

That is the “point” that James was making. It is easy to SAY that “I am a Christian.” But “the proof is in the pudding,” so to speak. Just as we tell people on MB to NOT believe anything a WS “says” but to look to the actions that “back up the words,” a profession of faith without the attendant observable “works” that come from a changed heart that is responding to God’s love for us indicates that someone’s “profession of faith” may be “just words.” God IS the ultimate judge of one’s heart, but it if follows that a “changed heart” will exhibit a “changed lifestyle.”

While sin CAN still be fallen into, a true believer cannot remain in willful sin against God and BE a true believer. Jesus searches after such a “lost believer” and FINDS them and LEADS them back. He does NOT “let them go” to He11 and does not remove their salvation from them because they “got lost” along the way. As Jonah found out, you CAN run from God, but you can’t hide anywhere that He can’t find you. Once God “locates” you (remember the Holy Spirit indwells ALL true believers and goes with them everywhere, so I use the term “locate” in an illustrative sense only), He applies the “needed pressure” to bring you to your senses and leads you back to the safety of the flock.




No, I personally don’t believe the Government “sanctioning” any marriage has any bearing on the state of marriage in God’s eyes, other than to certify to all that the couple have publicly and privately “bound” themselves to each other as God ordained from the beginning, one man and one woman, for life. God is quite clear about His stance about Homosexuality, and marriage between them is precluded and not recognized by God.



BK, I’d prefer NOT to “look at MM’s situation” specifically, out of respect for a brother in Christ who IS having to face this difficult tribulation in his life nor deal with any hypothetical situation that he might have yet to face.

I will say this, however, I have no doubt that MM “rests in the Lord” and even if it “costs him” emotionally, he will “defer to the Lord” and God’s will and God’s Sovereign right to decide things regardless of how we, in our human nature, might “feel.”

Now, let’s get this part straight before we proceed, Jesus acknowledges in Matthew that people DO divorce and remarry. It is NOT what God intended, but is sin in “Man’s life” that leads to most of this. Furthermore, in the case of adultery as the “cause” of the divorce and remarriage possibility, remember that remarriage following adultery was NEVER a possibility because the adulterers were put to death. It was the “hardness of heart” of Men that Moses used as his “justification” for divorce for other reasons, and Jesus clearly stated that Moses was incorrect and that ONLY “marital unfaithfulness,” under the covenant of Grace was “justifiable cause for divorce for the Faithful spouse.”

Never did Jesus, or Scripture, say that the “marriage” was NOT a marriage in the sight of God. What it became was a marriage that the people in it were “de facto” committing adultery, a sin, and the adultery needs repenting of. God “equates” marriage to a “one flesh” situation, and God recognizes that physical union between a man and a woman, regardless of “State sanction or not,” creates a “one flesh” condition, a “marriage” if you will.

God bless.

FH - Why does that "prove" that the devil and his angels are stronger that man? Man can be deceived. Definitely. Why was not Noah deceived? He walked with God. Man without God is totally at the mercy of satan. But satan is no match for a Man with God in his corner.



I disagree - The church should be on the Offensive. Yes Satam is lord of this world for now - it is a fallen world. But we are overcomers. God's will is for the church to be the chief of the mountains. We are called to "destroy the works of the devil" to continue to take ground off the devil. 1 John 3:8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. There is also the calling that we shall do greater works.


Agreed


I don't disagree at all FH. A christian can become "lost" along the way for sure. Christians still sin. But i see it is also possible for a Christian to lose their salvation by turning away from God in rebellion. The scripture from Hebrews seems to confirm that. The context of Hebrews 6 is elmentary doctrine if you like - Repentance, Faith, Baptisms, Laying on of hands, Resurection of the Dead, Eternal Judgement.

It then talks about a Christian who has fallen away. And then talks about worthless land being cursed and burned. Verse 11 then says 11 We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure. - in other words, it is possible for our hope NOT to be sure if we do not endure to the end. Once Saved, Always Saved is a dangerous doctrine.


Well I honestly did not expect you to disagree with me here. LOL.



OK FH I do accept that. (Although I don't believe Jesus was correcting Moses, he was stating the New Testamant position)

The question this all revolves around is this.

How does an adulteror repent from his/her adultery. That is the question.

It is my opinion repenting and turning from their adultery would necesitate turning from that relationship.