Interesting mys..

My Q would be..if I believe that you are damned..does it mean that I hate you? What if I liked you and felt very grieved by what I believed was your fate? Is it my feelings that determine my position..or my beliefs..and what if they conflict?

Does my belief that affair marriages are wrong mean that I hate the people involved?

Is hate the issue?

this is from an online bible study

There is hope in the Lord, even in this ungodly situation. When we disobey God's Word, we suffer. But when we honestly and humbly confess our sins, Christ helps us put the past behind and press on. As Paul wrote:

Forgetting what is behind, and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God called me heavenward in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14).

However, do not be nonchalant about "forgetting what is behind." You have harmed others and need to do what you can to promote healing. At the least, you probably should apologize to your ex-spouse, children, close friends and church. When you offer an apology, do not make excuses. Be sure to respond with understanding, patience and love if others do not forgive you.


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Mortarman,

All this was very interesting. You are correct in stating that I must not have read my Bible in it's entirety, because as hard as I have looked today- I have not been able to find the scripture references regarding these claims. I was suprised with the popularity of this thread, that there are no scripture references noted.

I would love to research this further. Could you enlighten me as to what part of the bible I have missed?

I do agree that we should hold one another accountable. But the most important thing to remember is that we do so in love. Above all else Christians are to do all things with love. That is the greatest commandment.(Matt 22:37-40)

We are to hold each other accountable in love-the same way you hold your children accountable- we as Christians should hold each other accountable, as long as we do it in love. (galatians 6:1-3) (colossians 3:12-14)


Thanks for your insight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

for a BIG preggers lady ... you sure can debate the socks off some of these non-pregnant men!

Forgive me for being a bit emotional tonight.

I'm a grown man and I cry reading wht you write...I so miss those days nc...I do.

It was Sonic Hedgehog for us....

I am buying a plane ticket - tonight...I'm going home - where I can hold my wife and my daughters in my arms and protect and comfort them...

I want this over. I want my famly...

Ooooh. Not when we found the topic again.

I understand uncomfortable. My EX will probably marry the OM. And I worry about the boys. The youngest two don't understand, but they WILL one day. And you don't have to be religous to feel uncomfortable about that.

How did you remember the ILs first marriage? Was it good and you don't understand the why? Was it bad, and you CAN understand the why? As an atheist, do you suscribe that right or wrong is learned from some untraceable "source" or is it intrinsic? Or does majority rule with what flies?

Is there a set of circumstances where you would say - well, they're probably better off? Or is it ALWAYS wrong? And if we agree that there are circumstances, then who gets to pick them? Under what "special conditions" is it right?

And most important (to me personally) what choices do YOU make in dealing with the FIL now that he has done this? (BTW, MY FIL did the same thing, but was married to the mistress BEFORE I met the ex). If I met the FIL and OW and thought they had a great marriage (based on CURRENT knowledge only) what would think of ME with that opinion?

NCW

Well, apart from the off-track posts about Halo )cat wait until Halo three comes out next year), I am loving the discussion so far.

And before I get the Biblical instruction that I got on here, I am loving reading all of the perspectives. Christians and non-Christians alike. I would again say that the idea of this particular thread is what GOD says of marriage, divorce, and re-marriage. If there is no God, then it all really doesnt matter, does it? We can just make it up as we go along.

But, I still would like to read what everyone thinks the Bible says about this subject. And the questions that are being asked here.

Very interesting....please continue!!

Standing in His Presence

Not at all. Any more than me believing that you're wrong means I hate you. In fact, I sometimes really worry about people who I feel embrace chronic unhappiness in the name of religion -- hoping for a reward I know will not come.

It's very sad.


Hate tends to come into the equation if we talk about bigotry -- and nothing else, really. If you hate all athiests, then I would consider you bigoted (just as if you hated all Jews or all blacks, etc). (You mentioned that I might think you're an ignorant bigot. I don't.)

If you just believe we're all damned .. *shrugs* that's just consistent with "the rules."


I don't know -- it's up to you how you feel about the people. Do you hate people who do things that are wrong?

I don't. I don't think most people do. I think a few people do.


I don't think so. I think the issue is what you do with however you feel. Specifically, this thread is supposed to deal with what Christians should do when faced with these specific sins.

At least that's what I thought.

I was just chiming in to say (for the athiests) that whatever you all decide isn't likely to bother us or annoy us. Or, I guess I should say, that it wouldn't annoy or bother me.

Mys

Well glad we have your blessing!

The ignorant bigot lunatic line was actually meant to be ajoke..it didn't come across that way?

I really must master the art of emoticons one of these days.

My family needs me...they need something that no one else but me can give them...

My daughters are angry, fearful and lost...my wife is lost...

what the ****** was I thinking...

come ****** or high water...I'm the one to save us...

Thanks Liz. And I take no offense to your requests. We should all as Christians be held to task for what we say and do, and make sure it is of god.

Sorry I did not attach the Biblical passages. And I have no problem providing them.


Mr. W talked to me earlier, and did bring up that I need to expand this. The thing I forgot to elaborate on is that what the Bible is speaking of is hypocritical judgment. A WS has no right to judge another person in adultery.

Mat 7:1 "Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
Mat 7:2 "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
Mat 7:3 "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
Mat 7:4 "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?
Mat 7:5 "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

But, that does not mean a FWS cant judge. Just as Paul was no longer Saul...a FWS is no longer a WS. As long as they have repented.


On this one, I will wait until I post the study...because it goes directly into it and I will list all of the Scriptural references. So, hang on and you will get the answer to this one.


Again, this is also in the study. So please, if you can indulge me...I will have it up soon, rather than write it all now and then again in the study.

Thanks again for bringing this up. I hope to have the study up in the next few days and we can then all discuss it.

Standing in His Presence

I let her let me leave... I didn't fight... I let her make that decision...

All that has happened... is my faultr ...

MM - I think you missed a very important point that JL made very clear.

It's not simply God or no God.

You gotta be mindful of which God.

I recommend you preface your entire discussion with the qualifier that you are referring to MM's God in your version of Christianity. Many may be in lockstep with you, but certainly not all.

Please recognize the wider range of beliefs. Some may conclude - me among them - that you're being presumptuous to speak for all who recognize some version of God.

For example, my God has little interest in this pale blue dot. If He/She/It did, I'm sure his/her/its hands would be filled dealing with problems like the middle east, Pat Robertson, and Intelligent Design - not to mention those who think they know what he/she/it means. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WAT

WAT,

I was mindful of what JL was saying. And I have been very clear that this thread is what the God of the Bible wants in these subjects (marriage, divorce, re-marriage). I am not interested in what Mortarman wants, or Mortarman's version. I am interested in what the God of the Bible, the Christian God wants.

I understand what you are trying to say, but as I have defined the parameters of this thread already, there is no need to qualify the discussion.

I am interested in what Jesus wants in these topics. his opinion is what this thread was started for. Those that know Jesus will be able to answer these and other questions herein. Those that dont know Him, may find the questions to be answered differently. I understand those differences...and they can be the subject of a different thread. But for this one, only Jesus' opinion needs to be mulled over here.

Hope that helps!

Standing in His Presence

MM,
I think it is also important that besides versus of the
Bible- different religions have created the structures
which allow for annulment and remarriage- it has a greater
than biblical expanse.
In my case there was the following struture
H- 1st marriage to a Catholic, folled by a legal divorce
at wife's desire.
H- 2nd marriage to a Catholic but not held in a Catholic
Church (ceremony held in a different religion)
H- 3rd marriage to a Catholic (me) married civily at first
with deacon attendance, after 1st marriage annulled and
second declared invalid married in full grace of Catholic
Church (alot more reconciliation work involved).

So by the dictates of the religion all of us shared- our
behavior (adultry) while a mortal sin and awful- I'm not
disputing that- did not invalidate my marriage based on
the Catholic Church's standard.

I think the politics of man in interpetation of the Bible
has clouded things a bit. Reminiscent of give unto Caesar
what is Caesar's and to God what is God's. Marriage is
no longer solely a religious institution but also a legal
one- does muddy the waters a bit...

I hear you, MM. But your version of God of the bible is different than others' version of God of the bible.

Of course you think you're correct. So do the others.

WAT

Which god.. that IS a good point. God is called by many names in the Bible and each name has it's own meaning...God acting in that aspect of himself.

Perhaps that should be taken into consideration, which aspect of God we are discussing in relation to the idea of what the original discussion is about.
Are we talking God, Eheieh? God, Jehovah? God, Jehovah Elohim? God, El? And so on.

It does. That is why I started this thread, as I wanted to maybe clear it a little. Take society, the church, etc out of the equation. To just look at what God says and what Jesus wants. What His will is. Because you are right...people and institutions have at times perverted the Word of God.

I would just like to have a unfettered view and discussion of what Jesus wants and commands. Hopefully I will have the study online soon so we can really dig in.

Standing in His Presence

I understand what you are saying WAT. ANd as I said, I'm not interested, for the sake of this thread, on anyone's particular version. Except that of what Jesus' version of these things are. And I think His view is discernible. He has spoken and it has been written. He also, to Christians, lives...which means He does talk to us and we can ask and receive answers. So, for the sake ofthis thread...I am only interested in what Jesus' view is.

But I do understand where you are coming from and that in other venues, that what you have said does apply!!

Standing in His Presence

I have several names. doesnt mean they pertain to a different guy. I am still the same guy. each name just decribes a particular part of me.


It does not matter, BlackOpal. As I said to WAT, I am interested in what Jesus' perception (in the case of this thread) of these topics.

Standing in His Presence