nb - I shall consider it. I don't know if I have the time for a study though.

bigkahuna - Okay. Then by extension you might also argue for someone who has become a believer to commit suicide so as to not "remain" in a sinful, sin-natured, flesh or risk commiting any future sins?

Forgiven by God simply means that the sin no longer exists in God's eyes and has been covered by the blood of Jesus, so that when God looks upon a believer He sees "no sin." The sin was put away as far as the "East is from the West."

Having been forgiven as a gift of God, what must a Christian still DO to earn "complete forgiveness?"

Does the servant owe a debt to you or to me? Or do they owe a debt to their Master? Is it the Master's prerogative to forgive the debt or is it ours? When we ourselves have been forgiven a debt of sin so huge as to be unpayable through any effort of our own, how is it that we would deny the Master the right to forgive someone else's debt if He so chooses? "....some WERE such as you" is God's promise to all who believe in Jesus Christ and have repented of their sinful state.

God bless.

Good Afternoon, just checking in <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

God Bless,

-Caren

Will be up soon folks!

FH...you make a lot of very good points in the vast majority of your posts. This was not your finest example. You cannot dismiss the beliefs that some Christian's have with an argument that is borderline disrespectful. I know that is not your intent... but that is how I read that.

I don't think that anyone here has argued what forgiven by God means... I think the point that has been stated again and again is that forgiveness for those sins is not given until the repents. Yes, once they do, it will be as if the sin never existed... but until they do... it is not forgiven. If I can be so bold as to do so, I think that is the point BK has been making.

I hope you are well.

MEDC

MEDC - of course forgiveness is based in someone's repentance of sin. I have said that very thing since "day 1" on this system. But the point that BK was making was that someone had to also divorce in order to be "truly repentant." That's simply not how I understand God's forgiveness. God's forgiveness is based solely upon the work that Jesus did for us and is dependent only upon our acceptance of Jesus as our Lord and Savior. We then ask God to forgive us for Jesus's sake, and God does. Requiring any "act" on our part is not required and is, in fact, unScriptural. Yes, we may also stop doing whatever it was that was the sin, but in the case of marriage, I choose to "err" on the side of God's forgiveness and not "require" someone prove to me through some action that they have met "my" standard for forgiveness. That's all I'm saying.

Let's face it, if an unbeliever is in what has been referred to as an "affair marriage" and then comes to know Christ, God is not going to "require" that they divorce. In the case of believer who divorced and entered an "affair marriage," they would have done so in rebellion to God. But God is not going to require that they divorce, and thereby commit another sin. They will be required to begin living for God in their marriage, and potentially have to "live with" repercussions and/or consequences that stemmed from the "sin that got them there."

God has plainly said in Scripture that the people in a marriage as a result of anything other that a Faithful Spouse who divorced over infidelity have caused their partner to commit adultery. Adultery is NOT an unforgiveable sin, but a marriage so begun must end all thoughts and actions that lead to more adultery, such as cheating on their current spouse, pornography, etc.

It is NOT an easy situation to deal with, and I understand how someone can feel very deep problems with an "affair marriage," if for no other reason that the original marriage partners where dealt an enormous blow. How many times has it been said that an affair itself "kills" the original marriage? Many times. If a death occurred to that "one flesh" marriage, a "new marriage" is formed when the WS comes back to the marriage and they "begin anew." If they don't come back, and then enter another marriage, it will be an "adulterous marriage" regardless of whether it is with the "affair partner" or with someone else. If someone remains unconvicted of their sin and refuses to repent of their sinful behavior to God, they will not be in heaven. But if they do, they are forgiven, no matter how "distasteful" it might be to me, BK, you, or anyone. We each have until we die to accept Christ, and that includes many sins committed by many people. None of us, even believers, are capable of leading a "sin free" life. That is why God's forgiveness is predicated upon what Jesus did and not on anything that we might do.




I am, thank you. I hope you are too, especially since I understand you got a "love email-gram" from someone who is definately not in the "forgiving mood."

God bless.

MM how are you?

Although I was on holidays and didn't always have internet access, every week I would look for the paper you were going to post. Is there still a chance you will? I was really looking forward to it. I've been in plan B for nearly 2 years now so I'm getting to the point where divorce is the most probable outcome.

I hope everything is ok with you and your children.