KM, the same thing happened to me. I never visited there as WW but had a look as a "FWW".

I could relate to none of it. It would never be a dangerous place for me. In fact, as you say, it strengthened my resolve and made me extremely happy to be a member of MB.

KiwiJ,

I think TOW is an attitude more than anything else. It's the blatant lack of respect as well as the inability or refusal to grow and learn from one's experiences. Pep has mentioned "the sisterhood" a couple of times. As women, we are all sisters. Why would you infringe upon another woman's M? Why would you do this to one of your sisters? This had a profound effect on me in my recovery.

There are several posters on this board now that remind me of TOW trolls. They are here giving lots of "advice" to folks, but have not expressed clear motivations for being here.

I know others have wondered the same thing as well.

Katie Mae,

I'm going to disagree with you just an eensy bit <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.... I respect the (F) in front of your designation, and I completely believe you had the reaction you did to the other site, BUT (you knew that was coming didn'tcha? LOL) I think for a WS to go to TOW is like an alchoholic going to a bar. I completely appreciate that it scared you off....but I think it's safer for WSs to avoid after breaking free of their addiction...period. It's just smart. I'm so glad that you didn't feel as though you had much in common there....but I still believe it wasn't the most prudent thing for you or any WS to do. It turned into a positive motivator for you....and that's fabulous....but it could just as easily go a different way....for someone else.

Pep,

ah yes....that's the threat both there (and even here to some degree) that affairs can be "normalized" because they are so prevelant (even historically) in every culture. We're bombarded with evidence that we aren't "naturally" monogamous (true! that's why you to have CHARACTER and strength to avoid temptations and do the right thing!) There is very little legal recourse anymore for infidelity and it's become so common that we can be desensitized and like some posters have described....more accepting "under certain circumstances".

However, for me....my short time on TOW was during a time when I was also mentoring married folks dealing with the everyday tragedy of infidelity and damage being done to children. It never seemed normal, ho hum, or okay to me.....and I can't imagine a scenario where it ever will....there is always a better choice. Even as far as my family is involved....I have a "cursory" relationship with my father that only involves arranging times to see my siblings and organizing the financial support for my handicapped sister. We have no holidays....no parties....no chit chat....no intimacy. It's basically a business relationship and the only intimacy is with his children. (afterall....this is the same man who was sexually abusive when I was a teenager....so there's lots of bad blood even apart from the A).

I consider myself a fidelity and marriage "advocate"....and I don't fear being compromised or getting wishy washy about what that means just because I'm compassionate or I'm willing to help people in trouble. You know, compassion gets a bad name around here sometimes....it's equated with "soft" in a moral/ethical sense. I'm not soft and I'm not sympathetic....I am compassionate and empathetic...big difference....I don't get "sucked into" other people's problems/chaos.... and part of that means accepting that people suffer for their poor choices....and it's part of learning. I learned that as a mother and as a mentor....sometimes the best way to learn something is to fail and suffer. Wish it didn't have to be that way....I can empathize with the pain of learning that way....but it's a fact of life. I don't feel sorry for anyone (sympathize) but I do understand how it happens and why it happens.

I still believe in respecting "people" even if I abhor their "actions". I still believe that shame is not a good motivator for empowering people to really change how they view fidelity and marriage.

Yes....I had the "sense" that some folks wanted their unethical behavior "normalized".....and would like to use you or me to help them do that. You didn't. I didn't either. And with all the talk of affair marriages....that's an important subject because I think there is a great fear that somehow those marriages will be "normalized" because they've "lasted". I don't advocate normalizing affair marriages....in fact....I used those very words. I do advocate stabilizing all marriages (yes even affair marriages)....because to do otherwise enables more infidelity, more dysfunction, more damaged children, more waywards, more unhealthy relationships, more pain....more more more. The cycle has to stop somewhere. I have no intention of being "touchy feely" about how such a marriage began or whether God recognizes them (I'll leave that up to him) or whether Harley recognizes them (I'll leave that up to him too)....but if I can help END the cycle of infidelity and broken marriages....I'll help when I'm able to and it isn't triggering for me. I'll also help any OP who is sincere about wanting to get out.

Star, I have to respectfully disagree with you a little as well. LOL.

I can't explain it, it's as KM says, disrespect, bad language, an "attitude", a hardness, it turned my stomach. So that's two FWWs who've felt like that. I wonder how many more WS's who never find MB, but who read there once or twice, are also affected like that and it strengthens THEIR resolve to end an A or whatever. I never felt like an alcoholic visiting a bar. I just felt "let me outttttaaa here."

That all sounds like fuzzy logic. LOL I'm not saying they serve a purpose but maybe they serve a purpose they don't even know about.

Kiwi....I'm glad it affected you that way <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />....and I'm sure it CAN affect other people that way too....gosh I hope so. But let me ask you this....would you recommend going to TOW for WSs? That's all I'm saying (I don't recommend it even in spite of how it affected you and katie).... it's risky....just like any enabling environment is risky for folks who have previously succumbed to any addiction.

Hi Starfish,

I'm with Kiwi... I visited TOW twice, both times out of morbid curiosity.

To be honest, the second time I went (as a FWW) it was due to a discussion about how horrible it was. I think Mrs. W. was telling someone not to ever, ever go there. It was more like stretching your neck out to see a car wreck... you look, eventhough you know it's not good... or like a kid who's been told "don't do it!" I was early in my recovery then.

I have zero interest in TOW. I don't think it even serves a purpose to those like me and Kiwi. Although it did strengthen my "yes, I'm on the right track!" resolve. I would never go back there, ever.

I understand the logic behind what your saying. If TOW "spoke" to me as a WW, it might be a dangerous place for me now. But it didn't, and it never will.

What's most dangerous for me now is not protecting my weaknesses and self-medicating myself in self-destructive ways. I do take things "one day at a time..."

Thanks for your thoughts!

Katie,

It's hard to resist the temptation to <peek> after everything said on this site isn't it? hehehehhe You know why I originally went? Well I heard there were "pet names" (ugly names) for wives on this site.....and I wanted to see if they were calling me "scarfish" or "fishwife" or whatever. Curiousity....just like you.

I guess what pep is trying to say though is that "curiousity killed the cat" LOL.

thank you for your thoughts too!!

They have pet names for wives??

Good grief, that is just horrible. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

And evil.

I will admit this though... I AM addicted to MB (I just left a flaming hot pan on the stove to respond, lol.)

I've looked at TOW just once, and it made me so soul-sad and sick, I never wanted to see it again, ever.

What stuck with me was the overwhelming need for romantic excitement - as if these women were fuelled solely by the adrenalin of the process, and could only exist in an atmosphere of drama and uncertainty (not all; some were deeply depressed by the lack of stability in their lives).

What I didn't get was an impression of sisterhood. These women seemed to be bound together, not by compassion for each other, but by hate and resentment directed towards common enemies.

I can imagine that many women who get into affairs, but who are not doing so for any subconscious destructive purposes, might be repelled by the picture of an OW that emerges from these boards - bitter, self-destructive, emotionally starving. I can see it being a deterrent simply because of that.

But I imagine some will be dazzled by the picture of romantic heroines, risking all for Lurve.

TA

Nicknames? Really? What do they call me?

(What do you mean, it isn't always about me?)

LOL

I see your ploy. Trying to trick us again when we all know you just go by rev level with "the family."

Nickname indeed.

Soylent Green is Neak! IT'S NEAK!!!

I mean NEAK IS PEOPLE!!!!

No, no, it's Neak is not people, you damn filthy apes.

In any case, Soylent Green is Neak would be a cool name for a rock band. So at least something was accomplished. Other than a children's book of questionable origins.

I haven't gone to TOW for a very, very long time. I used my name from here... well, actually my initials... and yes, someone did recognize me... and in trying to remember why I went in the first place... I guess it was curiosity at first... and then I met a woman or two who pulled at my heartstrings (they seemed to be wanting a way out, and I felt I could help them, being the ultimate care-taker).

In the end, I knew I couldn't stay there... for all the reasons you all have mentioned...

[color:"red"] I applied to university to go for my MSW next year.....haven't been accepted yet. I might choose helping children rather than adults!
[/color]

??? Is this hot off the press?

this is NEWS ... KEWL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Pep

Humph. They prolly call me TG for short, you pirate you!

Yes, star*... VERY NEATO. And my guess is that you'd be WONDERFUL!!

Wow. This is a great thread. Some of my favorite MB posters have all gravitated here, even though, I admit, only Pep was invite, so I'm a voyeur. Sorry to intrude.

This talk about TOW is so interesting to me for several reasons. One, my MC today kept bringing up little miss 21 year old TOW, like she thought TOW was an important person in the failure of the M.

I kept contending that TOW was young, and needed a (female or neutered male) mentor to help her get her chit together. That is all. Said I'm not married to TOW, so it's not about her. MC seems to think the fact that Tool went to Lil' Missy TWICE instead of picking a new affair partner is significant.

I think TOW is (in my case, and maybe more) a woman of low self esteem and not willing to put the effort into developing a bachelor into "family" material.

I've gone over to gloryb a couple of times to try to get insight, but haven't gotten anything. Feel like I'm sitting in a singles bar, waiting for some (married) man to walk in and validate me. Yuk.

Anyway, if it's ok, I'll keep reading to see what ya'll have to say about this. I don't plan on trying to save any TOWs in my future, unless it's my daughter (hopefully, I'll have a decade before I have to worry about that--but given the latest situation, who the heck knows!)

See. That's what you get sometimes. There are people in this world who CREATE work to justify their jobs. And it happens in all facets of the world.

The second time visit is significant. It HAS to be, because there is deep meaning in everything. Why couldn't it just be convenient? It is frankly WORK to find a willing partner.

Not everything "says" something.

Ohhhh Neakie ... it IS all about you honey. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

See???? I KNEW they were all talking about me!!!!!

You are da' queen! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />