I agree. However, Myrta never demanded that I stop.




All the time. I need my wife to help me with that.


The environment was always there.


It is not OK.



No. She probably thinks I do, but that is not the case.



Had no idea this was the time Myrta looked for a phone. I had the desire to write her because I considered her a friend.


This issue of being accused of having an affair has made me very sad. I feel depressed because now my wife will use this info to do God knows what. I also feel depressed because the relationship has suffered additional damage.


I believe so.

BTW, I brought this lady from TOW to MB. She is a regular reader here and is well versed in the principles of MB. She is like reading this thread and many others.

Bob--I appreciate your advise and seeyour point. But as I say before,,,,if OM will talk to my parents about what happened between him and I, then, and just then, I will deal with this. As of right now, Stanley, more than me, dont want them to know. The OM is not a threat anymore. I had the chance of meeting with him, of talking to him, of sleeping with him, and I simply did not even give him the time of the day. My husband knows that I never ever contacted him first. Dont have the desire or want to do it. OMs knows this now. He is a pitiful human being and he knows this, pining for a fantasy after 2 plus years!!

STanley told me last night that he was glad I found this out, because I could FEEL a little bit what he has felt.

Stanley knew I was going out to look for a phone.of course he knew!!

And by the way, I am 100% honest here and with Stanley!!

He is a pitiful human being but its not him living in fear of exposure is it Myrta ? I guess he gets his kicks grooming your family, while you two deny his threat and cower in fear, concentating instead on comparative trivia as flirting and such. Whatever. Your choice.

WHATEVER KIcks he is getting, is getting him no where with me or him. He still by himself pining away for me. I know for a fact, that he will never open his mouth. I have no fears!

Stanley, its not something to be depressed about, its something to understand that your W is being TOTALLY upfront with you on how she feels, how she sees your actions, feels about them.
Why damage?
Because she was honest in how she was/is feeling? isn't that what you want in a relationship?
Stanley you have such an opportunity to move forward here and accept your w feelings, they are what they are.
If you have EN's you feel can be met more effectively why not discuss that honestly, no blame, no fault, talk.
How can you or she meet each others EN's if you are not honest about it?
For goodness sakes she WANTS to try to meet them for you.

You cannot heal if you don't want to get better Stanley, If you don't let your w in.
Of course its a risk, you've been burned once and are hesitant to open up, to become more vulnerable, you are thinking once bitten twice shy.... all of those things probably.
Perhaps you cannot get back what you had, but then make it new and better.
Its a choice Stanley, it has always been a choice.
Maybe its one of those times to take your wifes hand, close your eyes and jump into a new life together as you had begun to.
Its a hiccup, change the hurtful behaviour and move on, work together.

One of you is not being honest here. You two need to figure that out.

Stanley, your answer about emailing while in Italy is lacking... did you email all of your male friends??? or did you just pick this female that you have a questionable relationship with. I am going to tell you that you sound dreadfully like my ex with the "just a friend" excuses.

What are you afraid that Myrta will do?

You say that the environment for taking your W's feelings into account always existed... yet it seems to be sorely lacking in this situation.

Both of you do yourselves a favor and call the Harley's today!

Am I the only one disturbed by this post? DO you get some pleasure knowing he is pining away for you? How do you even know that? Does that meet some perverse en that you have???

She is the only person I have ever written emails. There was no one else to write emails other than my kids.

THIS IS NOT A ROMANTIC FRIENDSHIP!!!!!!!

I had a need to spill my guts and she listened. I know this can lead to intimacy, but in this case this was not an option. I DO NOT FALL FOR PEOPLE IN THE INTERNET-------I need a visual.

The flirting was probably much more dangerous.

All I can say is that I find myself with damaged self-esteem and perhaps this lead me to act in this manner. I now understand the point of view of those with low self esteem. I can see how that can lead to an affair looking for validation.

Like many others have said before. I know how affairs developed and the chances of entering into an affair knowing what I know are quite small.

I may have acted like an OM when I flierted, but the chances of taking this to the next level were and will always be quite small (even though many become susceptible to an affair following d-day). In fact, Myrta has always known I could be susceptible.

We have a marriage counselor that we had not been for some months now. We rather do that than call the Harley's /

He did not write any other friends while in Italy. Just this woman, that he confides on.

Knowing that OM is pining for me, did not give me pleasure, it gave revulsion. He is obviously pining away, if he is still trying to be in contact with me. Dont you think?

I will not do ANYTHING that will harm my marriage any more, just because I know my husband is doing innapropriate things with co workers and internet friends.

Myrta

How is he trying to be in contact with you?? Through your mom??? If you know that to be true then you are rejecting the most basic rule of this forum... NC.

Try this on for size with your parents... I would appreciate it if you have no further contact with ###. I do not want to get into the details of why.. just know that he was very disrespectful to my family and I really feel hurt knowing that he is keeping in touch with you and dad.

I did tell my parents that I rather they did not talk to him, but they still do. I was very angry actually when I told her, and she (my mother) knows that it bothers me that she accepts his calls, but she still does. I told her that the OM was getting the wrong idea with me, and I did not want any further contact with him.

"I need a visual."

Hence the photo trades?

I'm not trying to beat up on you, but think about it. You traded photos with a female you conversed with on the internet about your private life. The fact that you would converse with her during vacation could show that you think about her more than you'd like to admit.

Maybe not. Maybe it's all innocent. It's up for Myrta and you to decide.

What would you think if Myrta had a male friend she confided in online and traded pictures with? Would you be ok with that?

well, then it sounds like you need to be a little more firm with an insensitive and uncaring mother who puts the interests of someone else above your family.
I have never spoken to you or Stanley before... but I have to say that the two of you are chock full of reasons why you are not doing the right things here.
How about mom... if you bring him up in any discussion, now or in the future I am going to cease communicating with you until you decide that your relationship with your daughter is important enough to not subject her to emotional cruelity.
I mean it is time that you or Stanley step up and be the hero for your M.

Stanley:

"I had a need to spill my guts and she listened. I know this can lead to intimacy,"

Spilling your guts IS intimacy.

LA

IMHO No it cannot be innocent.

Why bother flirting with someone. What is the real purpose behind it.

IMHO again it is an ego stroke to see someone is interested in you. It has a self serving purpose for the person flirting. How does it make the other spouse feel.

I agree with eldente how would you feel.

My FWW told me it was innocent and I was over reacting until one night I flirted with someone. Boy was she ticked off at it when I did it. Up until that point she always maintained it was innocent and wouldn't bother her.

Put yourself in her shoes. There is no innocent flirting.

I think to when I was single. Flirting was always the first step.

I am no MB scholar but I do know about EN's and Plan A.

Stanley stated that his EN's have shifted since DD. If we apply MB principles to their sitch, doesn't this mean that Myrta was not meeting all, or enough, of Stanley's EN's?

Isn't the next step for Myrta to Plan A Stanley?

Come to an arrangement that you both agree upon.

Stanley sends and Email to TOW friend, and CC or BCC Myrta (always). Forward all responses. Keep nothing "covert".

I suspect if Stanley would have told Myrta in person about the flirting, and much as it might have hurt. The honesty would have been reassuring.

Remind each other you are only human.

Yep

Flirting is never innocent.

Discussing my personal life with another woman is intimate, I agree.

However, I have no emotional investment even though it looks bad.

I wrote my friend while on vacation because I felt like writing about the places I was visiting. At some point I was writing her on a daily basis to discuss Myrta's affair and her own EA. It helped me a lot to get that perspective even though at one point it may have caused me to relapse on my two-year anniversary.

The only thing I can think off is that I needed to talk some more and she offered her ears. At the same time I preached and preached MB concepts and it came to appoint where it was her telling me I was violating those principles.

She constantly advised me to accept Myrta as she was and to get rid of my disappointment. In short she told me I expected perfection from a person that was not perfect. She also made me confront the concept that I saw myself as a failure because for my entire life I felt I had made a difference to Myrta. This was a very humbling experience for me. In any event, I never developed romantic sensations during these exchanges.

In reality Myrta is more upset about the fact that I had been flirting with this co-worker and telling my Internet friend about it. I must say that my friend advised me to stop the flirting and used the very same MB terminology I taught her. I kept telling her I was not the kind to enter into the fog, but that the flirting could improve some of my low self-esteem.

The interesting thing about all of this is that I know the mechanism on how affairs get going and I also see that it is something that can happen to folks with low self-esteem. I see the allure, but I am not made to have a double life------I am not good at it.