And you talked to him????? What part of NC do you fail to understand?

YOu don't control his actions... obviously you have little control over yours too.... how about not saying a SINGLE word to him (or listening either!)... not one and walking away.

Myrta, I know I am coming with 2 x 4 's here... but really... not maintaining NC is not being "decent." You have an obligation to your M to do this... yet you come here today talking about how Stanley is falling short in his behaviors (which he is!!!). I just don't get it.

JL:

There is some instability within me; I cannot deny that. I know my communications were wrong and the Internet lady reminded me on a regular basis as I introduced her to MB. BTW, you came up in our conversation and I wanted her to post to you. She read many of your posts and liked what she saw.


I wish I could go back to pre-affair. I am convinced I have developed some insecurity and low self-esteem. From day to day this causes that instability I mentioned above. I now have a great deal of empathy for those that have experienced low self-esteem for a lifetime.


I cannot state any more how on some days one feels entitled. It is not a daily thing, but it feels different than my old self. However, this is no excuse because I know the anatomy of affairs quite well. Luckily I have not invested any emotions into this and I never lost any interest in Myrta. However, I realize that one of Myrta’s concerns is a retaliation affair.

I am mantaining NC, because I had never seek OM again since DD. That he happened to stop at my parents house is beyond my control.. Kinda of stupid to walk away, while my sister was standing beside me and go in the house. Like I said they dont know what happened. The couple of sentences that were exchanged were of no harm to me, whatsoever. Seeing him reinforced my decision of staying away from him.

I stand my ground saying that I am behaving in a correct manner and in NC.

Mkeverydaycnt,


There are posters/members here whose marriages have been DESTROYED by internet *only* relationships.

Make no mistake.

To YOU it might be far worse to deal with a physical affair, but to countless others, it is equally as devistating, if not moreso, to deal with an emotional one.

yes, I see that... but if you read my post completely I said if it is found out he had an EA it is a different story... for now I am giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Most men would strongly disagree about your premise though... when a PA exists it is usually an EA and PA all wrapped up in one.

Yes, I know that about men.

And maybe that's why Stan-ley thought he could play with fire... because it isn't a REAL affair until it goes physical.

Affairs have to have a jumping off place... and sharing intimate details is just the spot.

I did read what you said, by the way. I happen to believe that what he described is the beginning of an emotional affair. Just my opinion. I understand yours is different.

yep, you are right... nc includes a couple of sentences and not walking away from him...

maintain your beliefs all you want... the N part of NC is NO... not some... not a little... it is NO.

I give up.

Ok, see you!!

You're kidding, right?

What part of the contact you had is NO contact?

If you'd told your parents the truth, and enlisted their help in keeping him AWAY from you to save your marriage, do you think he would have been welcomed to stop by?

C'mon... you know better than this.

No contact is NO CONTACT. Not ANY.

You do realize you're thinking about him RIGHT NOW, right? Because HE STOPPED BY. Otherwise you'd be concentrating on Plan A'ing your H instead of wasting your time defending the time you spent with OM.

I am thinking of him, because he has been brought up here in this forum. I had not seek ,call,contacted the OM. so I am mantaining NC. Yes, I am.

My parents dont need to know what transpires in my marriage, they dont need to worry,or fret about me. They are, especially my mother in fragile health. So, no, I will not say anything like that to my parents. Unless the OM opens his mouth and I have no choice but to try to explain what happened.

Stanley,

I have just quickly read through this entire thread. This online email friend of yours...yes it IS an EA.

The moment you began to share the intimate details of your marriage with another woman, you began an emotional connection.

So many parallels to what I experienced with my online EA:
1. The OM counseled me about my marriage and I listened to him about his marriage.

2. The OM tried to protect himself from it ever turning into "anything" right up front. He was just helping me, right?

3. We shared pictures of YES...our families FIRST! That was innocent right? I sent pics of me and my H standing right next to each other....He in turn sent a pic of he and his wife standing together.

4. The OM took that precious time away from HIS family vacation on a CRUISE to email me!! I sure felt "special"...

5. Then the attraction began.....it was a nice (horrible) slide down that slippery slope.

I know I have discussed my online EA in the past with you and I do remember how you said you could never ever fall for someone online. You are heading in that direction IF you don't put an end to this. If you say you can walk away from this, then do it NOW!

Also...here is a quote from a post you posted to me back in Sept.:


Think about where you are in relation to what you wrote about OM2 to me?

I feel so much the pot calling the kettle black. Stanley, for crying out loud ,how do you think my affair started?
It was talking about everyday things ,it was just a friendship.
I'm now getting a divorce.Don't do it. You two are going to end up like me if you
don't stop.



Take care
Scott

deleted

TJ

OnlyHuman/Scott:

Is it true that you are contacting Spectacles and seeking her support and comfort during your divorce process?

Are you really meeting up with her this week?

I'll repeat what you just told Stanley...

DON'T DO IT!

How much more are you willing to lose for this woman? She is not your victim nor a victim. You did not make her the OW....she choose that all for herself.

Don't leave MB...we can be your support and comfort during your divorce. You don't need anything from her. She's done enough, thank you very much. Let us be your accountability partners.

If she is/was lieing to upset you, your STBXW, your family and/or your reputation herein...I apologize, in advance, for giving such forked tongue any respect or mention at all.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- If you have no idea what I am talking about Spectacles has been posting the last few days asserting the above about you.

presumably, you mean if his wife has a PA, compared to an EA.

I refute that.

given the choice I would have asked for my wife to have a ONS PS, over this EA, any time, and every time.

A ONS is a one-time stupid mistake. an EA is a long-standing deliberate choice of someone else over you, that eats away at your marriage like a cancer.

You can "cut out" an ONS easily. yuo cant simply cut out a cancer that has spread through your whole body.

Myrta,

I was NOT responding to you, and I was not encouraging you to tell your parents now. However, my comment to Stanley stands. Because he did not tell your folks, your children, anyone else, he is left with no one to talk to about his feelings.

I have the strong impression that he is NOT comfortable in talking with you about it because you ARE defensive, look how you just posted to me.

But, more importantly you don't seem terribly sensitive. You "only talked to OM for a few moments" right. How could walk away with your sister there you ask. Yet, you have no idea how renewed contact and you talking with OM has affected Stanley.

Read his post to me. He says he still feels "unstable", I am guessing and you need to ask him what that means. I am guessing he really doesn't feel you "get it". You don't understand NC. When OM appears you RUN not WALK away. You don't talk to him, you don't talk about him with your parents UNLESS you are willing to tell them the whole truth about your relationship with OM. You aren't so he should be off limits for discussion.

Don't you see that contact this SUMMER, means it has NOT bee two years of recovery. For Stanley it means he still is and can be in your life.

I am not condoning his interaction with the other lady. It may be as he says totally innocent, but it is likely not to be innocent after awhile, so it needs to stop now. You, Myrta are absolutely right about that.

Myrta, something is missing in all of this and I think (and yes I am guessing) that it is that Stanley does not feel he can lean on you when he is down. You won't respect him if he does, because you expect him to be what he has always been...strong, and not needing you, just wanting you.

You two share children, a long life together, but what Stanley needs now is a W to share his thoughts, his fears, and his emotions with. He needs you to do the same, and that means NOT being defensive about the A : "It's been two years get over it." type of things.

Please talk to the man, please listen to him. I think what he has to say is really about himself, not attacking you. This is very likely true even if he wants to talk about the A. You really really need to understand what you seeing OM can and may well have done to Stanley again. It may have meant nothing to you, but I am betting it was HUGE to him.

Please think about this, and see if YOU can bring some real healing to your marriage. This not about sex, it is not about love, it is about empathy.

God Bless,

JL

Shirley Glass iterates that most men are bothered more by a PA than an EA. The key word is most. It may not fit you, but that does not invalidate her findings. And I am with Stanley on this one.

JL...I was not defensive when I responded to you, but if you want to believe that, so be it. Stanley and I talk about the affair all the time, he has no qualms about talking with me. He knows this, I answer whatever he asks me. We also have a Marriage counselor that he talks to.

The way I handled the OM when he showed up at my parents house, he approves of. If I had run inside like a "bat out of ******" it would had given me away with all my sisters. Dont you think? Stanley DOES NOT WANT them to know, more so than me. He is highly embarrass and feels he could NEVER visit them again or look at them in the face.

JL...it hurts me that you think that I have no empathy for my husband. If I didnot I would had gone to be with OM again, or go for drinks or to talk or whatever alone with him. I handled him the best I could under the cirmcunstances. I stopped communication from MY Part a long time ago. I had never initiated contact with OM.

JL>..he might have fears, but I have them too. I feel very insecure with my husband. I feel he wants to get "back to me"! I feel he is staying with me just for our children, and just last night he stated so.

If I did not have empathy, I would have not told him about OM coming to my parents. He really did not have to know. I was in another country very far from Stanley. I told him because I want NO secrets any more. I want to be open in everything with him. But I am always the bad guy, no matter what I do.

He has not apologized to me for flirting with this ex-co worker over and over. He told me last night "I did, so be it". "Yeah, I flirted, so what!". That does not sound like an apology to me. He does not think I should be worry about his flirting or e=mailing with that TOW woman. He constantly posts in Tow too and I have beg him not to do it anymore and he always does.'

Thank you for your time to post to us again. We appreciate ALWAYS your input.

Myrta

Techie, I‘m a woman, but personally I also view a PA worse than an EA. Here are two posts I’ve shared on the subject (on 2 different threads):

"Personally I think the worst scenario for recovery is when a WS gets involved in both EA and PA. I agree that EA and PA are equally destructive and devastating to a M, but IMO PA takes an EA one step further on the ‘scale of betrayal’ (check out this thread) and involves further and more serious betrayal towards the BS on both emotional/physical level. I believe the big difference between EA and PA is that when you have a PA with someone you know without doubt that what you are doing is wrong... I mean, I can't imagine that sex and using your genitals (or any other part of your body) can happen ‘accidentally’ or ‘by chance’.

However, one can get involved in an EA if boundaries are unwittingly crossed from platonic friendship into something more. This can also be explained by using the frog in the hot water analogy: If you threw a frog in a pan of scalding water it would quickly leap out in shock. If you put a frog in cold water and slowly turn the heat up, he will stay in the water until it’s dead. It’s very easy to cross an invisible line without being aware of its impact.

So in my opinion, EA’s can happen unintentionally (I don’t say this is always the case) but a PA is intentionally since clothes can’t get removed by it selves. When a friendship with someone develops to a deeper level and you realize you’ve crossed boundaries into EA and developed romantic feelings for that person, you still have the choice to stop before it develops any further, but if you let the EA develops into an PA any way, IMO such a person takes an enormous step to further betrayal towards the spouse...

IMO acting on one’s feelings by becoming involved in PA in any way (whether it’s embracing, kissing, petting or sexual intercourse) is always a conscious choice and never unwittingly or unintentional. However, I’m aware that for WS’s who have "fallen in love" with the OP it often takes enormous will-power, self-control and self-discipline to stop once boundaries has been crossed into romantic feelings and EA…it’s very hard to go into reverse once you are past a certain point of emotional connection…and I believe this is why most WS’s in such a situation then lack impulse control and get involved in an PA while there original intention wasn't to have an A and to cheat on their spouse in the first place.

In my case my H said to me my emotional betrayal was very painfull and devastating to him, but he also said he's thankfull and glad about the fact that my EA never became PA in any way...that he would find it 100 x times more difficult to forgive an recover if that was the case. From what I’ve read on these boards it’s generally more difficult for woman (both BS and WS) to recover from the emotional side of an affair than for men. And usually for men who are BS’s it’s more difficult to recover from the physical part of their W’s A. But there are many exceptions.

For me personally, having sexual intercourse with someone is the worst form of betrayal I can imagine...especially if it’s a ONS or visit to prostitutes where there is not emotional connection with the person… I can’t imagine how it’s possible to have the most intimate and vulnerable act on this planet (sex) while having NO feelings or emotional connection to that person at all. Doesn't make sense to me."

AND

"Since I’m a FWW who had an EA and never experienced betrayal from my spouse, I can’t speak from experience. However, here are my thoughts on this topic:

As I’ve previously said on the other thread about EA’s/PA’s, I definitely think a PA which results from an EA is the most difficult to [b]recover from for both BS and FWS. This is so because a combined EA/PA cause much more damage and involves much more lies, deceit etc. from the WS than any other form of betrayal – and especially the emotional addiction and attachment towards the OP make things much more complicated and painful for both the BS and FWS. HOWEVER…I think if I were a BS, the emotional attraction/attachment/addiction would at least gave me some form of explanation and understanding (not justification and rationalization) on how and why my spouse could have allowed the EA to become PA. But this would not be the case with an ONS at all for the same reasons MelodyLane and Daisy posted e.g:

The above is exactly how I would view and feel about an ONS too… That’s why I’ve said on the other thread that for me personally, having sexual intercourse with someone is the worst form of betrayal especially if it’s an ONS or visit to prostitutes where there is not emotional connection with that person at all... I really can’t imagine how it’s possible to have the most intimate and vulnerable act on this planet (sex) while having NO feelings or emotional connection to that person at all. This doesn't make sense to me AT ALL and if I were a BS whose spouse had an ONS or ‘casual sex’ with someone where there was not emotional strings attached, I would find it impossible to digest and comprehend... I really find the thought of having sex with someone you hardly know and feel nothing for, very disgusting and shallow…

Maybe I am too judgmental about this and probably this is because of my own personal background and personal beliefs about sex… I view sex as something that is suppose to be at least a physical and emotional experience between two people and I wouldn’t be able to continue a relationship with someone who thought so little of the sex act that he could jump in bed with a total stranger with no feelings attached. For this reason, if I were a BS I think I would find a ONS (or other forms of 'casual sex' with a stanger) harder than a EA/PA… Yes, I will find a EA/PA extremely painful and devastating and yes, it would be much harder for me and take a long time (if ever) to recover from a combined EA/PA, BUT (as I’ve said previously) at least the emotional addiction/attachment to the OP would gave me some form of explanation and understanding on how and why my spouse allowed the PA to happen.

So, in conclusion, I would say a EA/PA is worse than a ONS in the sense that it takes the FWS and BS harder to recover from (because of the emotional and physical betrayal which involves more deceit, lies etc. from the WS than any other form of betrayal)…

But on the other side a ONS is worse than a EA/PA in the sense that it is probably more difficult for the BS to digest/comprehend because a ONS reduce the act of sex to a shallow act with a stranger where there is NO feelings attached...

Of course during EA/PA the sex act is also reduced to a shallow act, but because of the reasons I've given in this post, I feel it’s more so the case with a ONS and other forms of casual sex with strangers and/or people where there is NO feelings attached. And this is why I personally happen to find the last one (ONS) to be more distasteful and disgusting...

Again, I’m speaking from the POV of someone who haven’t experienced betrayal myself and therefore I can’t know or begin to imagine how I would really feel and react in such a situation and I hope & pray I never will… I can just guess and give my thoughts for what it’s worth as someone who have not been through this myself."[/b]