TODD--I dont like their e-mailing at all!! Yesterday, I thought I could let them continue but today I am totally against it!

No, I am not like Jesus. But, if I am accused of having an EA when I didn’t I will defend myself.

What do you want me to do? To say yes, even though I did not.

Is talking to the opposite sex on the computer the wrong thing to do?

Yes, I admit that. But, there was no EA.

My flirting was a 1,000,000 times worse.

Could I have an affair. Sure, anyone can have one. I can be hit by lightening too. What I am saying is that despite d-day I don’t think I will go that route.

Could I fall in love with another woman?

Sure, but it is not likely.

If I do, I will leave the marriage before having an affair.


However, all of the above is highly unlikely. I always loved my wife and I am wired to only love one woman once in a lifetime.

Good Stanley. And you don't think it is disrespectful for the woman to continue doing something that your wife finds offensive?

Stanley, as I’ve said to you before, if your “friendship” with this woman isn’t/wasn't an EA, then my “friendship” with OM (3 years ago) wasn’t and EA either…in spite of the fact that I've developed an emotional connection towards OM and developed inappropriate feelings for him (which I NEVER acted upon physically or verbally)… Then the “friendship” of 3 years ago only became an EA recently when we’ve – for the first time – professed/admitted past feelings of love towards each other.

Stanley, is the only reason you deny your involvement with the TOW woman to be an EA because you don’t have an emotional attachment or inappropriate feelings for her? Would you say it was an EA if these feelings were present (but not verbalized yet)?

Stanley, I have another question for you:

What would you say about a situation where a man and a woman chat on e-mail a few times a week at work...do nothing severely out of line…no intimate discussions about spouses and marriages… they mostly talk about every day stuff at work and other general topics…and give each other some moral support & encouragement on work-related and study-related matters…They develop inappropriate feelings and an emotional attachment towards each other… However, they don’t verbalize these romantic feelings to each other or act on it in any way (except some subtle flirting, teasing and joking on e-mail sometimes and exchanging of holiday photo's - which include some family photo's).

Stanley, would you classify the above as an EA because of the inappropriate feelings which had developed – in spite of the fact that the man and woman didn’t admitted those feelings to each other? And what if those feelings were NOT present – would you then NOT classify it as an EA because of a lack of romantic feelings and emotional attachment?

The reason I ask you this is because the part I’ve put in bold, describes the nature of my past “friendship” with OM (3 years ago)… I try to figure out what is your “definition” of an EA… And I try to figure out why you view my past involvement with OM to be an EA while you deny yours to be one…in spite of the fact the me and OM NEVER had personal/intimate discussions about our spouses and marriages (like you and that woman did)…and never verbalized/admitted those feelings to each other before the recent e-mail exchanges…

I try to undersand your reasoning here because it still doesn't make sense to me...

Hey, I know I'm not Stanley, but as the BS in an emotional affair I'd like to offer my perspective. Feel free to ignore it.

CAUTION -- My opinion follows:

Regardless of anyone's definition of an Emotional Affair, the relationship you described is wrong for a Married Man or Woman to have with someone else.

The problem I see is that the emotional attachment or feelings that you allowed to develop are with you 24/7 and will, in some way eventually, manifest themselves in your relationship with your spouse. You may find yourself mentally noting that your "friend" would have handled a situation differntly than you spouse is handling it. Or your "friend" would have said something different or better than your spouse.

Over time, this constant mental comparison will build up a veneer between you and your spouse. Very bad things follow that.

You said:



So, what is the boundary of "severely out of line"?

For me, the bottom line question that needs to be asked is:

"If my spouse, to whom I'm committed and is committed to me, knew about this relationship, would they be hurt?"

If the answer is "yes" or "maybe" the relationship has to go.

This is my viewpoint based on my personal experience.

Sorry for interrupting.

Artor, I agree with your post 100%...actually 1000%! If you read my previous post on this thread (of yesterday) you will understand where I’m coming from.

The purpose of my post is to try and figure out why Stanley doesn’t view his inappropriate actions with another woman as emotional betrayal towards his W. I get the impression that he view inappropriate interactions with another woman *only* as emotional betrayal if there is an emotional attachment or romantic feelings involved…and I don’t agree with this POV. However, I’m trying to understand Stanley’s reasoning on this and that is the purpose of my post.

I became emotionally attached to OM and developed romantic feelings for him, but I never had intimate discussions with him on my feelings, spouse or marriage... Stanley on the other side, doesn’t have an emotional attachment towards this woman, but he discussed intimate things with her and want to exchange e-mails with her EVERY DAY…but just because he claim to have no emotional attachment towards her, he doesn’t view it as emotional betrayal… This doesn’t make sense to me…really. IMO people can sometimes act more (or equally) destructive and out of line even if there is “no feelings” attached… And therefore I don’t really think it’s just emotional attachment/romantic feelings which defines an EA. But again, I try to get Stanley’s reasoning on this…

I hear you.

It sounds like both on-line relationships were equally wrong and equally damaging.

It's so easy to get lulled in by the distant nature of email and instant messaging.

Whether or not feelings develop, the fact that his on-line activity bothers his wife should be a clear mandate for him to stop. Period.

Any continued contact just keeps the feelings alive and continues to feed the beast.

Exactly! Myrta IS hurt about Stanley's "friendship" with this woman and the way he behaved...she has said herself that she's uncomfortable with their e-mails...but just because Stanley claims to have no emotional attachement towards this woman (and the TOW woman also tries to convince her of such)...they expect Myrta not to worry... This doesn't seem healthy or reasonable to me...

Agree 100%.

SUZET--thanks for your posts in our situation. Well, I have received a very insulting e-mail from my husband's internet friend. In it she tells me that my husband is the best husband in the world, and I am this evil wife that deserves to be thrown to the curve!! That nothing!!!! that my husband has done could equal the evil of my actions with OM. I do understand that of course. What I did was much worst, because I crossed the line all the way!! She told me that she will publish HERE all my husband's emails to her so MB can see how harmless their talking was.

My husband told me last night that EVeRYTHING that is happening today in our lives is MY FAULT..Him flirting in the office, and him e-mailing extensively to the other woman. I deserve everything that is going on in my life right now, because I err in the past. I asked my husband that if all people that were unfaithful deserve this, how come not all the BS in MB were doing what he is doing? I dont see BP,or Mr.G saying that they are having innapropriate flirting or internet friends,because their wives deserve it. Is it because I am the worst ever FWW that have walked the earth???

One thing I know for sure, and it is, that I AM NOT going to live in this fear for the rest of my life with my husband. Always thinking that because I was unfaithful he can do innapropriate things behind my back

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Myrta

I’m so sorry to hear about this Myrta…I feel so bad for you and Stanley… <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Please don’t believe this about yourself Myrta and don’t listen to the lies & insults from Stanley’s internet friend either… Please. Yes, you’ve had make VERY bad choices in the past, but you’ve turned around and made amends to Stanley and your M… You’re not the same woman anymore and therefore you are NOT defined by you past actions anymore and you must not allow it.

Stanley can’t blame you for the current choices he’s making. You are NOT responsible for HIS wrong behavior and choices right now. He is totally off base. I can understand Stanley’s hurt over your past actions, but it’s NO excuse for his current behavior.

Myrta, it also sounds if Stanley’s “friend” is fueling his negative feelings towards you and tries to put distance and a “wig” between you and Stanley. She has already started to succeed in this. It needs to stop…ASAP. This woman who calls herself a “friend” is quite arrogant to interject herself in your M like this. I hope Stanley will wake up and see this.

(((HUGS)))

I agree with the concept that friendship with the opposite sex is wrong. Therefore, I was wrong despite the absence of an emotional connection. I still have a problem in calling this an EA if I had no emotional entanglement.

I also agree with the concept that rehashing the affair with a 3rd party can generate resentment from my part. In fact, this was probably the case on the anniversary of d-day.

Last night Myrta asked my WHY DID I DO THIS FRIENDSHIP AND WHY I HAD BECOME A FLIRT. I said that the affair had changed me and that I was still looking for answers. That does not mean I am blaming her. However, this is what it is. Following d-day there are unavoidable changes and as BP said, perhaps one fills entitled.

Nevertheless, it was never my intention to have a retaliation affair. My conversations over the Internet are clearly a reaction to my wife’s affair. This is not a justification; this is not retaliation. This is simply a byproduct of d-day.

Something else Myrta, I think it’s very imperative for you to start a very good plan A on Stanley now...

Be strong and don't allow some "outside" woman to "define" you, influence your sense of self-worth and rule your M...

Stanley, if you don’t mind, I would appreciate a response from you on the post I’ve send to you earlier today (just scroll up). I’ve asked specific questions to you to get some insight in your personal reasoning about EA’s.

Thanks,
Suzet

Stanley,
If your W's accounting of your conversation was accurate.. you are acting like an a$$... cut it out and start working on your M. If you don't want to be married... then let her know. But your actions are cruel and hurtful to your W.

Stan-ley,

It isn't one or the other (email friend and flirting)...both are wrong and are disrespectful of Myrta.

What you are sharing with this OW/email 'friend'...should be shared with your wife instead. Myrta should fill this need. Your email friendship is inappropriate as well as your flirting. BOTH ARE WRONG.

What your email friend wrote to Myrta even confirms the inappropriate nature of that 'friendship'.

You need to get clearer about your personal boundaries.
Maybe you should go back and read the basic concepts or His Needs Your Needs again.

You should model the behavior you expect from your wife in regards to opposite sex relationships.

I know you want an affair proof marriage from here on out.

Stan-ley,

I think that affairs often create low self esteem in the BSs. So it isn't surprising that you've tried to shore up your esteem "externally"....but that's never going to help. You've got to build your own value from the "inside". You ARE a different person....you're a person who has lost belief in your own lovability....so you're out to prove something....to yourself. Unfortunately, the way you've chosen to do it will create more shame and less self love. Start feeding your spirit Stan-ley....and don't forget, what we feed is the thing that grows. If you feed your ego instead of your spirit....then you'll remain entrenched in the entitlement. Start exploring how to "internally" raise your own value.

Myrta,
Please read the link in my sig line titled "The Boomerang Relationship" and see if it speaks to you.
Mulan

Oh great. Now we're going to have the OW post details of Stanley and Myrta's marriage??????

My only reaction is it is NONE OF HER BUSINESS.

Stay tuned folks.

huh? Did I miss sompin?

Star: