Quote from WillSurvive: "that he can never forgive me for what I've done and that can't make for a good life together."

Wow, that's rich, he's having and A that he won't stop and YOU can't be forgiven for what you've done (trying to save your M and family).

Stay strong willsurvive, I've just read your thread and you did the right thing. It may take time for you to feel good about what you did, but down the road you will be glad you stood up for yourself.

double ditto

Again, my thought is NOT a biggie - more of an observation. But I bet this CO would be savy enough to wait to act to see if the OW also violates the order.

My sense is that willsurvive is smarter than either of us and despite what we say, she'll choose the right course. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

WAT
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Crabs are good for you.

Will Survive,

Having been in your shoes, and with all due respect for MM, another retired brother in arms, I have to disagree. I personally would go directly to the CO and provide any new evidence immediately. Please understand you WHs actions are what brought him to where he is. If he is so willing to disobey a direct order he needs to be hung PERIOD!

In my case, looking back I truly should have burned WW at the stake rather than taking the Chaplains word and letting her off lightly. In the end, after she retired, came back to the family I found she had brought a cell with her and had been in contact (NC never truly established and CO never followed up) until I took it away (early April, she retired 1 Feb and had been home since 27 Jan).

Her CO, a Hospital CC was very easy with everything, more concerned about WW and OM than me or kids. Your CO seems to be a great guy and I totally agree with MM that I'm proud to have served with men and women like him!

Remember anything that happens to him is his own doing. It is called consequences!

Oh yeah, I agree with the plan to sit on it for a couple of days too (but not too long though), give them some rope to hang themselves with so to speak. He is being totally cocky by disobeying his direct order.

I'm so sorry you are having to go thru this, it sucks to be at such odds with someone you love.

I agree she is awesome!! She will do the right thing.

And I do understand what you are saying WAT and 99.9% of the time, I would be in total agreement with you. But as a former IG in the Army, I know that commander is not going to risk his career by playing games. WillSurvive and her husband arent worth that to him.

As an IG, I investigated a ton of situations that went soemthing like this: let's say WillSurvive gives the email to the commander today. And the commander sits on it. It does not matter whether she asks him to or not. And then, WillSurvive gets upset that nothign happened or her husband left or whatever. So she decides to just hammer her husband by going to the IG.

Now, a guy like me comes down to interview the commander after talking to WillSurvive. And when I talked to WillSurvive, she told me about giving the commander the new email. So, I ask the commander about the letter. He tells me that he decided to sit on it for awhile.

Now, I can bust the commander because he did not proceed forward with processing WillSurvive's husband for a crime he committed (disobeying a direct order).

This CO is smart and he knows where things stand. He will not risk an IG complaint from anyone. So, he will do it by the book. And if she gives this email to him today, he will bust her husband. And OW will get off scott free.

Instead, they will either maintain no contact (not likely)...or she will contact him back and they will talk abotu a way to stay in contact until a divorce can be had or the CO isnt looking or whatever.

Once that happens...then the jig is up. But I dotn want to put this CO in a position where he has to do somethign unethical. By what he has done so far, he is a good commander.

I also dont want the OW to get off here. Let her hang herself!!

I agree fully eagle. Just want the OW on that same yard arm if there is a hanging!

MM - I follow your logic completely.

A side question:
What is the CO's "flexibility" to keep this "local" as has been described? That similarly suggests to me that he's not proceeding forward on the crime. Am I reading too much into "local"?

In other words, does he have this option built into the defined process, or could the IG also come in and ask why he didn't proceed with the Full Monty?

WAT

No. right now her husband and the OW are guilty of adultery. With just that, the CO is given latitude to deal with it. MOST of the time in the military, there is no punishment. But what the commanders do is order no contact.

Where WSs and OPs get in trouble is when they disobey that order. Then, that crime is punishible by the UCMJ. Sure, the CO could jsut give him a company-grade Article 15 (basically a reprimand, loss of pay, loss of rank). That would be as local as he could keep it. Or he could forward it to the JAG for a full court martial.

But what he cant do is sit on it. The military sees disobeying an order...no matter what that order is...to be one of the worse offenses.

OK, so disobeying the order for NC with the adultery partner is worse than the adultery itself?

So be it, I guess. Better than the non-military options. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

How 'bout this idea? - A CO upon taking command orders his folks NOT to engage in adultery. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

WAT

Yes, that's worse. Because up until that point, there were no orders not to communicate, because they have to due to the nature of their work. Yes, the adultery is highly frowned upon in the military, but it isn't something that they usually get involved in UNLESS it's something that has been ordered NOT to happen.

The military takes care of its own FIRST. And I GET it. That' is fine. That's what makes me such an incredible military spouse. I understand the nature of the beast and willing to stay married to it.

BUT, now that the A has been made known to the CO, the CO has made the order for them to NC. Because it is a DIRECT ORDER, then it will be punishable according to UCMJ.

Now THAT is a great idea!

Mortarman might correct me on this, but here's my take.

It's a pain in the neck to "prove" adultery in most cases.

However, a direct order of no contact is very simple to enforce. If you have proof of contact, they're guilty.

WOW....

WH just called to apologize for what he did with the computer (disabling it), for saying F you to me, and that he will give me ALL passwords to ALL accounts. He has also promised that he will be with me 24/7 next week if I wish, in order to help him comply with the direct order.

He also asked that I not bring up the past anymore. That we look forward. He has not made any decision on what he wants to do (ie:leave or divorce), but he is going to stay for now. And that he does still love me.... but what *I* did (going to CO) was something that was so bad, he may have a hard time ever forgiving me for.

The last part of that... he STILL doesn't know that I know about the email acct. So, we'll see... but at least he was a HECK of a lot nicer.

OH!! And he said he will go to MC next week. I had been told earlier that he would NOT go anymore, but I let him know that I still would be going by myself.

He will also be calling a Christian friend that we both know who has been through something similar. He has a high regard for this person. I do not know when or if he really will call. But at least it's a start.

I hope it's true progress and not a coverup. What does he mean about not bringing up the past? Distant past or does it mean he doesn't want to address this affair ever?

Shouldn't he be more worried about you forgiving him at this point? He's still in selfish mode, IMO. He forced your hand. It's like a teen being mad at their parents for going thru their room when they suspect drug use and they find drugs. Sometimes things are done for your own good.

I believe that he just doesn't want to talk about A right now. To drag it through the mud. In MC, it will be brought up and he knows that. But, I think he just wants to try to move forward at home. He doesn't want to have me pulling it up everytime we talk, that's what he is talking about.

Warning...warning!!! This is fog speak!! Here is the key:


Tread lightly. You just saw his latest email, where he said the opposite. The fog does not leave that quickly!! And NO...you dont JUST move forward. There are steps here.

If he is serious (and he may be semi serious), then you need to guide him towards counseling, towards the books on this website, etc.

But do not fall for that girl! 99 times out of a hundred, all a WS is trying to do is to hold you in place, keep you quiet...until they can put out the fire and figure out a way to make their affair work.

Stick to your guns...lovingly! Tell him what you expect (counseling, giving you full access to his life, etc). if he is willign to go thru all of the hoops...then he is serious. If he balks, then you know what this was.

Yes, he's in shellshock. He's in disbelief that I actually DID it! His fantasy world came crashing in and he's just feeling numb (um, REALLY close to how I felt when I found out). I believe that his rational mind, or what is left of it, knows that I did the right thing, but his irrational one is screaming. And he's scared of what will happen.

Yes, he's still threatening divorce (although only by the statement "I haven't made any decisions"), but I know that's all fog. I'm honestly not worried anymore about if it comes to that. I know that I want to stay married, but I CANNOT live in fear of divorce. I know that I will be OK if he does decide that he wants to go.

I love my WH. Very much. What I did was to help him. To help US. To save my marriage and family. To help us get PAST this. And I know that I KNOW what I did was RIGHT.

MM... I know that it is mostly fog talk. But I am willing to give him a little peace at home if he is still willing to go to MC *willingly*. :-)

I figure that it is a littlelgive and take (and I will STILL be checking everything...EVERYTHING). I am standing vigil for my marriage. I cannot trust anything he says right now, even though he may sound sincere. But I can at least be nice back. It may give him something to look forward to in ME.